Question on Triggered Salute

Question on Triggered Salute

Joined: May 7th, 2004, 11:02 am

September 6th, 2010, 9:03 am #1

I have a question on the execution of Triggered Salute. In this technique we ride the force of a right push from 12 oclock against our left shoulder by stepping forward into a right neutral bow.

Ive been trying to simulate the situation that I dont know that the attacker is going to push me against the shoulder, and find that it cannot be done (or at least I cannot do it) the way it was written.

If I dont see the hand coming, Ill be reacting to the push when contact is made, my mass is already behind my feet, so I cant step forward anymore.

I can do it however if I see the hand coming and anticipate. BUT: Even if I see the hand coming, Im not able to determine if this hand is going to push me in the shoulder, or punch me in the face until very (too) late. So if I see the hand coming it makes no sense to do TS, but rather choose to do Delayed Sword or at least a block or a parry instead of a pin.

At this moment I train this technique stepping back instead of forward. The only time I can do it stepping forward is if I was already moving forward to begin with, but not from a static position.

Im looking forward to your views on this.

Regards,
Marcel

***************************************
Marcel de Jong, 4th Black from the Netherlands

http://www.katsudokenpo.nl
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Joined: September 6th, 2010, 10:14 am

September 6th, 2010, 10:23 am #2

It is only fairly recent that Ive learned that you step in while doing Triggered Salute. From day one Ive learned that you ride the push/punch ie. you are forced back by the push/punch. This leads to the name triggered. If you get someone to push you hard enough you will see how your right hand reacts. It will move in the direction of the attack which in turn can be brought up to the face hence triggering the salute. I hate when people tell me to step in cause in this case if the attacks comes fast and strong enough it wont be possible to step in. You wont have the time.
Thats my opinion and thats the way I teach it
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Joined: January 19th, 2004, 2:11 am

September 6th, 2010, 12:13 pm #3

Trevor, the technique is designed to work in the short range, ie. using the elbows to strike and the knee as a gravitational check. When you step back, you've lost the advantage of that range and make a counter attack that much easier. Teach it the way you want and you can have your opinion, just don't make it fact.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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Joined: September 5th, 2010, 11:38 pm

September 6th, 2010, 12:47 pm #4

It is only fairly recent that Ive learned that you step in while doing Triggered Salute. From day one Ive learned that you ride the push/punch ie. you are forced back by the push/punch. This leads to the name triggered. If you get someone to push you hard enough you will see how your right hand reacts. It will move in the direction of the attack which in turn can be brought up to the face hence triggering the salute. I hate when people tell me to step in cause in this case if the attacks comes fast and strong enough it wont be possible to step in. You wont have the time.
Thats my opinion and thats the way I teach it
I dislike the term "rideing the force of the push," as it is misleading. You can't ride the force forward, as you point out. However, you can void your left side, leaving him with nothing to push against. This allows you to step forward not so much under, but around the force of the push.

TS is also a lesson in pivoting a strike at the trailing shoulder instead of around your centerline, which is much more alive. It lends itself to moving off center of his attack, gives more penetration of his space and enhances power generation. Carry that concept through the elbow and back knuckle strikes and you'll notice a huge difference.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

September 6th, 2010, 3:40 pm #5

It is only fairly recent that Ive learned that you step in while doing Triggered Salute. From day one Ive learned that you ride the push/punch ie. you are forced back by the push/punch. This leads to the name triggered. If you get someone to push you hard enough you will see how your right hand reacts. It will move in the direction of the attack which in turn can be brought up to the face hence triggering the salute. I hate when people tell me to step in cause in this case if the attacks comes fast and strong enough it wont be possible to step in. You wont have the time.
Thats my opinion and thats the way I teach it
The original theme of many of the orange belt techniques was that your back was against a wall, which is why you would step in. I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with this, but that is what I have been told by some of the 1st generation black belts. Although I like to practice the techniques both ways (stepping in and back), at this level (when teaching yellow belts)I prefer to teach them to step back on a few of the techniques that are written as forward, and I still teach them to go forward on glancing salute and triggered salute. One rotates to the outside of the arm and the other rotates (like a revolving door) to the inside of the arm. This is just Ideal Phase, remember. The nature of the attack on the street along with many other environmental variables will dictate how you react/act in a self-defense situation.
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Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 6:36 pm

September 6th, 2010, 5:38 pm #6

I have a question on the execution of Triggered Salute. In this technique we ride the force of a right push from 12 oclock against our left shoulder by stepping forward into a right neutral bow.

Ive been trying to simulate the situation that I dont know that the attacker is going to push me against the shoulder, and find that it cannot be done (or at least I cannot do it) the way it was written.

If I dont see the hand coming, Ill be reacting to the push when contact is made, my mass is already behind my feet, so I cant step forward anymore.

I can do it however if I see the hand coming and anticipate. BUT: Even if I see the hand coming, Im not able to determine if this hand is going to push me in the shoulder, or punch me in the face until very (too) late. So if I see the hand coming it makes no sense to do TS, but rather choose to do Delayed Sword or at least a block or a parry instead of a pin.

At this moment I train this technique stepping back instead of forward. The only time I can do it stepping forward is if I was already moving forward to begin with, but not from a static position.

Im looking forward to your views on this.

Regards,
Marcel

***************************************
Marcel de Jong, 4th Black from the Netherlands

http://www.katsudokenpo.nl
where is your attacker when you practice this technique? his the attack stepping through with the right leg? is the attacker standing still, feet close together and launches his hand at you? Let me over think this further, is the attacker standing with his right foot forward as they do the push?

As Mike said, the orange belt techniques have the wall behind you scenario built in, so if that is true, the push is a pin, one that leans in like the palm heel in the extension of Taming the mace.

Over thinking further; (luv ya Clyde!) is your attacker doing JUST a push? is the attacker push grabbing? push grab pulling?

Catalysts can screw up you ideal phase, especially if the catalysts hides the intent.

Step forward by pivoting your hips toward the attacker. If your hips are in play on contact your shoulders will follow.

Clark
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Joined: May 7th, 2009, 2:29 am

September 7th, 2010, 12:36 am #7

I have a question on the execution of Triggered Salute. In this technique we ride the force of a right push from 12 oclock against our left shoulder by stepping forward into a right neutral bow.

Ive been trying to simulate the situation that I dont know that the attacker is going to push me against the shoulder, and find that it cannot be done (or at least I cannot do it) the way it was written.

If I dont see the hand coming, Ill be reacting to the push when contact is made, my mass is already behind my feet, so I cant step forward anymore.

I can do it however if I see the hand coming and anticipate. BUT: Even if I see the hand coming, Im not able to determine if this hand is going to push me in the shoulder, or punch me in the face until very (too) late. So if I see the hand coming it makes no sense to do TS, but rather choose to do Delayed Sword or at least a block or a parry instead of a pin.

At this moment I train this technique stepping back instead of forward. The only time I can do it stepping forward is if I was already moving forward to begin with, but not from a static position.

Im looking forward to your views on this.

Regards,
Marcel

***************************************
Marcel de Jong, 4th Black from the Netherlands

http://www.katsudokenpo.nl
.
Last edited by kenposoldier01 on October 7th, 2010, 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 6:36 pm

September 7th, 2010, 1:44 am #8

kinds like that punch that puts guys out where the lead hand moves only a short distance, yet hits like a anvil. This is about what the right foot (front foot for the boxer/mma type)is doing when the contact is made. If the front leg is rooted and pushing slightly inward, that lead hand punch gains some needed stability. I just worked TS with Jack and when I lifted my knee forward instead of sliding my foot along the ground, the pin was secure and I checked his leg quickly as the palm heel touched. The primary difference was the hip rotation as the right knee came up and forward. Drive the hips counter clockwise, lift the heel of the right foot, point of origin with the right heel palm and take over his space by checking the lead leg.

Correlation of Forces. Gotta love it!

Clark
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Joined: September 7th, 2010, 4:12 am

September 7th, 2010, 4:22 am #9

Trevor, the technique is designed to work in the short range, ie. using the elbows to strike and the knee as a gravitational check. When you step back, you've lost the advantage of that range and make a counter attack that much easier. Teach it the way you want and you can have your opinion, just don't make it fact.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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Mr. O'Briant. I thought that the tech's were drill's meant to teach a person option's not necessarily specific responses, a person was to tailor the art to thier own need's. The Equation Formula give's one license to work or formulate whatever is needed to fit the situation. Would you agree??
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Joined: January 20th, 2004, 7:04 pm

September 7th, 2010, 6:39 am #10

I have a question on the execution of Triggered Salute. In this technique we ride the force of a right push from 12 oclock against our left shoulder by stepping forward into a right neutral bow.

Ive been trying to simulate the situation that I dont know that the attacker is going to push me against the shoulder, and find that it cannot be done (or at least I cannot do it) the way it was written.

If I dont see the hand coming, Ill be reacting to the push when contact is made, my mass is already behind my feet, so I cant step forward anymore.

I can do it however if I see the hand coming and anticipate. BUT: Even if I see the hand coming, Im not able to determine if this hand is going to push me in the shoulder, or punch me in the face until very (too) late. So if I see the hand coming it makes no sense to do TS, but rather choose to do Delayed Sword or at least a block or a parry instead of a pin.

At this moment I train this technique stepping back instead of forward. The only time I can do it stepping forward is if I was already moving forward to begin with, but not from a static position.

Im looking forward to your views on this.

Regards,
Marcel

***************************************
Marcel de Jong, 4th Black from the Netherlands

http://www.katsudokenpo.nl
Why do you step forward on Triggered Salute and Glancing Salute?

Besides a completion of categories, target availability, riding force, and moving on an obscure line, there is ONE other main reason.

Do you know what it is?

Larry Tatum

Back to the mats,

Angela
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