Kenpo Topic: Basics vs. Grafting?

Kenpo Topic: Basics vs. Grafting?

Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:34 am

July 20th, 2009, 9:02 pm #1

Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.

In other words, I have 2 hours on the mat tonight. I COULD spend them looking at ways of grafting the beginning 5 Swords onto the ending of Gathering Clouds, having found myself there by an intentional manipulation of the attacker, or by an unintentional stumble by them in response to my initial counter.

OR!!!

I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, and partner drills; followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt, and in drills with a partner, aiming to accomplish an inward block that breaks his arm, and an outward handsword that knocks him the heck out.

This "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as a bouncer. It occurred to me (while getting punched from 3 different directions one night as I had a guy in a chokehold waiting for him to fade to black) that the faster I end the issue -- with as much finality and authority as I can muster -- the better. In the time it takes to be monkeying around with adapting a technique string to a change in position, their friends can do something..I can miss...slip on a spilled drink or banana peel from the mayhem...all sorts of things can go wrong: And the longer I take to put him down, the more room there is for chaos to interject a variable I haven't controlled for.

In a perfect world, I would have ample time to do both. But it's not a perfect world; I have to choose. So...which would you prefer to work on, and why?

D.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

July 20th, 2009, 10:01 pm #2

Great post!

I enjoy using grafting as a principle of movement, and as exercise drills and such, but nothing beats training and refining basics. Of all the old dogs I have trained with (has been several), every one of them has told me that basics are the most important aspect of Kenpo.

Anybody who has street experience knows the reality of the streets and that playing around with silly movements will get you hurt. Your basics need to be sound and everything else follows.

Good story on the bouncing thing. I have several stories I could elaborate on as well. You are absolutely correct when you state that you would rather get the job done as quickly as possible. Dancing around, or playing pattycake aren't going to help you in a real situation.

So basics training should be number one. If you are having an issue with a technique it's always best to take the basics found within and drill them hard core, then you may not have trouble with the technique in the future.

Another thing I would add is practicing proper basics. We do have some basics that are most dominant for street and are most probable to be used and others that serve other purposes.

A good thread would be, which basics should be practiced the most and why!

Michael Miller, CKF
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

July 20th, 2009, 10:20 pm #3

Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.

In other words, I have 2 hours on the mat tonight. I COULD spend them looking at ways of grafting the beginning 5 Swords onto the ending of Gathering Clouds, having found myself there by an intentional manipulation of the attacker, or by an unintentional stumble by them in response to my initial counter.

OR!!!

I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, and partner drills; followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt, and in drills with a partner, aiming to accomplish an inward block that breaks his arm, and an outward handsword that knocks him the heck out.

This "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as a bouncer. It occurred to me (while getting punched from 3 different directions one night as I had a guy in a chokehold waiting for him to fade to black) that the faster I end the issue -- with as much finality and authority as I can muster -- the better. In the time it takes to be monkeying around with adapting a technique string to a change in position, their friends can do something..I can miss...slip on a spilled drink or banana peel from the mayhem...all sorts of things can go wrong: And the longer I take to put him down, the more room there is for chaos to interject a variable I haven't controlled for.

In a perfect world, I would have ample time to do both. But it's not a perfect world; I have to choose. So...which would you prefer to work on, and why?

D.
***If all you are doing is a few hours a week you need to step it up at home, and do more...

******
Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.
******
***When at school you need all the interaction with others you can get.

******
I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt...

***No partner drills on this kind of workout for me^^^
***The "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as LEO/bouncer.
***Learning the basics is nice, but then you have to learn the art of choking others out also...LOL

Regards,
Gary
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Joined: February 2nd, 2005, 12:15 am

July 21st, 2009, 12:07 am #4

Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.

In other words, I have 2 hours on the mat tonight. I COULD spend them looking at ways of grafting the beginning 5 Swords onto the ending of Gathering Clouds, having found myself there by an intentional manipulation of the attacker, or by an unintentional stumble by them in response to my initial counter.

OR!!!

I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, and partner drills; followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt, and in drills with a partner, aiming to accomplish an inward block that breaks his arm, and an outward handsword that knocks him the heck out.

This "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as a bouncer. It occurred to me (while getting punched from 3 different directions one night as I had a guy in a chokehold waiting for him to fade to black) that the faster I end the issue -- with as much finality and authority as I can muster -- the better. In the time it takes to be monkeying around with adapting a technique string to a change in position, their friends can do something..I can miss...slip on a spilled drink or banana peel from the mayhem...all sorts of things can go wrong: And the longer I take to put him down, the more room there is for chaos to interject a variable I haven't controlled for.

In a perfect world, I would have ample time to do both. But it's not a perfect world; I have to choose. So...which would you prefer to work on, and why?

D.
SL8 and Kenpo 6.0 all day!

Cliff Seminerio
www.youtube.com/casadekenpo
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

July 21st, 2009, 1:14 am #5

When I think of basics I feel they are, basic, as in training, to build muscle etc.. Coordination and perspiration...

The other items come when you are around others and intermingling and socialization of MA...Fine tuning is higher learning...If you have no muscle interaction forget it...Spastic movement, comes to mind.

Regards,
Gary
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Joined: July 10th, 2009, 10:24 pm

July 21st, 2009, 5:06 am #6

Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.

In other words, I have 2 hours on the mat tonight. I COULD spend them looking at ways of grafting the beginning 5 Swords onto the ending of Gathering Clouds, having found myself there by an intentional manipulation of the attacker, or by an unintentional stumble by them in response to my initial counter.

OR!!!

I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, and partner drills; followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt, and in drills with a partner, aiming to accomplish an inward block that breaks his arm, and an outward handsword that knocks him the heck out.

This "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as a bouncer. It occurred to me (while getting punched from 3 different directions one night as I had a guy in a chokehold waiting for him to fade to black) that the faster I end the issue -- with as much finality and authority as I can muster -- the better. In the time it takes to be monkeying around with adapting a technique string to a change in position, their friends can do something..I can miss...slip on a spilled drink or banana peel from the mayhem...all sorts of things can go wrong: And the longer I take to put him down, the more room there is for chaos to interject a variable I haven't controlled for.

In a perfect world, I would have ample time to do both. But it's not a perfect world; I have to choose. So...which would you prefer to work on, and why?

D.
It is true, the basics are the "foundation" of all that you do, but the ability to do contact manipulation while implementing the concepts and priciples of Grand Master Ed Parker is not only fun, but a true way to find out how to adapt to the "what if" stage that is more the reality of the street.
True, strong basics are the key to success, and power in technique is the only way to succeed in a real situation. As Mr. Parker us to say "he who hesitates, meditates in a horizontal postition!" But the only real chance to learn to work the physics of combat is with a partner, so when you are limited to time training one should work with a partner.
I agree that working power is "very important", but contact placement on an opponent that is moving is one of the most important things to accomplish. So, training with both(i/e..bags, pads, training aids and partners) to me is of the utmost importance.
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Joined: April 10th, 2005, 11:41 pm

July 21st, 2009, 7:51 am #7

SL8 and Kenpo 6.0 all day!

Cliff Seminerio
www.youtube.com/casadekenpo
I am not sure how you intend me to take your SL8 statement. One of two things are happening. 1) You have no idea what SL4 is 2) A poor attempt at humor

We hammer home the basics in our 4 hour classes. Twice a week. That's actually why I find your statement funny. Screw basics? Well, SL4 emphasizes basics, but I doubt you knew that.
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Joined: April 10th, 2005, 11:41 pm

July 21st, 2009, 7:52 am #8

Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.

In other words, I have 2 hours on the mat tonight. I COULD spend them looking at ways of grafting the beginning 5 Swords onto the ending of Gathering Clouds, having found myself there by an intentional manipulation of the attacker, or by an unintentional stumble by them in response to my initial counter.

OR!!!

I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, and partner drills; followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt, and in drills with a partner, aiming to accomplish an inward block that breaks his arm, and an outward handsword that knocks him the heck out.

This "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as a bouncer. It occurred to me (while getting punched from 3 different directions one night as I had a guy in a chokehold waiting for him to fade to black) that the faster I end the issue -- with as much finality and authority as I can muster -- the better. In the time it takes to be monkeying around with adapting a technique string to a change in position, their friends can do something..I can miss...slip on a spilled drink or banana peel from the mayhem...all sorts of things can go wrong: And the longer I take to put him down, the more room there is for chaos to interject a variable I haven't controlled for.

In a perfect world, I would have ample time to do both. But it's not a perfect world; I have to choose. So...which would you prefer to work on, and why?

D.
But you knew I would say that Dr. C.
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Joined: February 25th, 2009, 8:54 am

July 21st, 2009, 8:50 am #9

Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.

In other words, I have 2 hours on the mat tonight. I COULD spend them looking at ways of grafting the beginning 5 Swords onto the ending of Gathering Clouds, having found myself there by an intentional manipulation of the attacker, or by an unintentional stumble by them in response to my initial counter.

OR!!!

I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, and partner drills; followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt, and in drills with a partner, aiming to accomplish an inward block that breaks his arm, and an outward handsword that knocks him the heck out.

This "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as a bouncer. It occurred to me (while getting punched from 3 different directions one night as I had a guy in a chokehold waiting for him to fade to black) that the faster I end the issue -- with as much finality and authority as I can muster -- the better. In the time it takes to be monkeying around with adapting a technique string to a change in position, their friends can do something..I can miss...slip on a spilled drink or banana peel from the mayhem...all sorts of things can go wrong: And the longer I take to put him down, the more room there is for chaos to interject a variable I haven't controlled for.

In a perfect world, I would have ample time to do both. But it's not a perfect world; I have to choose. So...which would you prefer to work on, and why?

D.
many people.. In fact the far majority of people in kenpo have a screwed up concept of what basics are.. When they claim the are drilling basics they are not. They are drilling abbreviated movement of root basics. It is critical to drill the old roots. Whether they be the four blocks, base punches and kicks. Running the full stroke through the base geometric forms. This means KARATE. Because the deal is that Kenpo IS KARATE and that is where the base roots lie.
Last edited by kenpo58 on July 21st, 2009, 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 28th, 2004, 1:04 am

July 21st, 2009, 8:58 am #10

Grafting has always been an entertaining mental exercise in position recognition for me, but in terms of "where do I put my training time with only a few hours a week to play?", I'd rather work my basics for targeting and power, derived from directional harmony and body mechanics.

In other words, I have 2 hours on the mat tonight. I COULD spend them looking at ways of grafting the beginning 5 Swords onto the ending of Gathering Clouds, having found myself there by an intentional manipulation of the attacker, or by an unintentional stumble by them in response to my initial counter.

OR!!!

I can spend those same two hours working the inward block hammering action on heavy bag, makiwara, and partner drills; followed by throwing a couple hundred handswords at BOB, a heavy bag, moving focus mitt, and in drills with a partner, aiming to accomplish an inward block that breaks his arm, and an outward handsword that knocks him the heck out.

This "basics" option is my training preference, based on my experience in fighting as a bouncer. It occurred to me (while getting punched from 3 different directions one night as I had a guy in a chokehold waiting for him to fade to black) that the faster I end the issue -- with as much finality and authority as I can muster -- the better. In the time it takes to be monkeying around with adapting a technique string to a change in position, their friends can do something..I can miss...slip on a spilled drink or banana peel from the mayhem...all sorts of things can go wrong: And the longer I take to put him down, the more room there is for chaos to interject a variable I haven't controlled for.

In a perfect world, I would have ample time to do both. But it's not a perfect world; I have to choose. So...which would you prefer to work on, and why?

D.
I would spend my time, because of time restrictions, on advanced applications of basics.

Consider scenarios ahead of time and plan a strategy accordingly.

In the language of motion, as an analogy, I would spend my time learning new words, phrases and sentences based on the foundations I already know......

Past a certain point I would believe that it is not necessary to keep saying your ABC's....if you don't know how to speak the language by now, you better have someone with you that does.

Then of course there is inflection and innuendo to consider not to mention "Pig Latin".

All roads lead to the same place......getting there by your own means or by ambulance is entirely up to you.

Inmate tested Mother approved.

Rich
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