Interesting encounter with sparring.

Interesting encounter with sparring.

Joined: January 16th, 2010, 11:59 pm

January 29th, 2010, 9:15 am #1

Early this evening I went down to a TKD dojang somebody I know teaches at & I ended up sparring there. I dont know if it's just this particular school in general or something common in TKD but what I noticed there is the TKD people there do not use their hands much at all. I'm not sure if they even train to use their hands when sparring who knows?


They could kick of course but unlike say Thai Boxers' these guys' tended to snap their kicks. All I had to do was get inside of whoever it was I was sparring & I was able to jam the kicks. Of course there is no hand strikes to the head in TKD but I was still able to overcome the people I did spar against using my hands almost all the time. It was interesting to say the least As before taking up Kempo I trained in Tai-Mantis Kung Fu so I'm comfortable kicking but at the same time am comfortable working with my hands. Guess that's why the transition from Tai-Mantis to Kempo wasn't such a drastic change.
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Joined: May 7th, 2009, 2:29 am

January 29th, 2010, 11:57 am #2

I have not seen the hands always down thing as much in the United States as I did in Korea. I visited a number of TKD schools including the HQ for WTF the Kukkiwon (sp) and the black belts sparred with the arms down. I suspected that maybe they could fire a mean ridge hand strike from that position but it never came. I guess it is just a fun sport over their too... for real self-defense the elite warriors probably do things differently, I know the North Koreans do TKD differently and Korea still has great Hapkido schools. Much of TKD is just rehashed Shotokan with Korean names and a greater focus on kicks IMO. Probably cause Gen. Choi studied Karate.

Sorry if that sounds like I am TKD bashing lol, I have met TKD people in the United States that are very skilled and can handle themselves just fine.

I dont have much experience with Mantis folks but a guy I sparred with who studied under that legendary Master Chan who I think is in Florida... gave me a run for my money.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

January 29th, 2010, 3:41 pm #3

Early this evening I went down to a TKD dojang somebody I know teaches at & I ended up sparring there. I dont know if it's just this particular school in general or something common in TKD but what I noticed there is the TKD people there do not use their hands much at all. I'm not sure if they even train to use their hands when sparring who knows?


They could kick of course but unlike say Thai Boxers' these guys' tended to snap their kicks. All I had to do was get inside of whoever it was I was sparring & I was able to jam the kicks. Of course there is no hand strikes to the head in TKD but I was still able to overcome the people I did spar against using my hands almost all the time. It was interesting to say the least As before taking up Kempo I trained in Tai-Mantis Kung Fu so I'm comfortable kicking but at the same time am comfortable working with my hands. Guess that's why the transition from Tai-Mantis to Kempo wasn't such a drastic change.
Hello,

Was it Olympic TKD, or some other form? I know Olympic TKD don't use there hands at all. They fight (spar) with their hands on the front of their thighs or somewhere near that vicinity.

Although I never formally studied TKD, I had a friend in college who was a 3rd black in it and he taught me some of their ideas and such. I have respect for those in TKD who are actually good--but, unfortunately, most I have seen are not any good. If you are a black belt in TKD and I kick better than you (my kicks aren't that good--my weak point for sure) there is a problem.

In college a group of about five black belts got together to spar on Sundays. At one point this cocky kid (born in Korea, but was a U.S. citizen for quite some time) was a 3rd degree black belt in Olympic TKD. He knew I was the local black belt so he came up to me one day all egotistical bragging that he was two time New Jersey state champion and ranked number 2 in the nation. I invited him to our sparring session.

I was the first to spar him and I completely destroyed him. Here is why: His hands were on his legs the entire time and I crowded his kicks and took his face off every time (medium contact and after I hit him 2-3 times I would back off every time). After I destroyed him so did everybody else in our group. Don't get me wrong, his kicks were great and fast--all snap. After that session he never showed up to work out with us again.

So to make a long story short, it depends on what TKD you are talking about. To me this sounds more like Olympic.

Michael Miller, CKF
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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

January 29th, 2010, 4:14 pm #4

Early this evening I went down to a TKD dojang somebody I know teaches at & I ended up sparring there. I dont know if it's just this particular school in general or something common in TKD but what I noticed there is the TKD people there do not use their hands much at all. I'm not sure if they even train to use their hands when sparring who knows?


They could kick of course but unlike say Thai Boxers' these guys' tended to snap their kicks. All I had to do was get inside of whoever it was I was sparring & I was able to jam the kicks. Of course there is no hand strikes to the head in TKD but I was still able to overcome the people I did spar against using my hands almost all the time. It was interesting to say the least As before taking up Kempo I trained in Tai-Mantis Kung Fu so I'm comfortable kicking but at the same time am comfortable working with my hands. Guess that's why the transition from Tai-Mantis to Kempo wasn't such a drastic change.
Some of the greatest tournament fighters hail from Korean styles. Chuck Norris comes to mind. John Natidivad and Byong Yu are two others. I'm sure Mr. White could add appreciably to this list.

Salute
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Joined: May 7th, 2009, 2:29 am

January 29th, 2010, 5:03 pm #5

Never underestimate anyone, I agree Tom.

On a side note Chuck Norris started off in Tang Soo Do which is not exactly like modern sporting Tae Kwon Do well at the time Chuck started learning it in Korea it was not, these days I am not so sure. Also Chuck changed his style to universal way which added BJJ and TKD with Thai Boxing and Shotokan to the Tang Soo Do base system. Wonder why he changed it

I also herd rumors that he may have taken some lessons from Bruce Lee but I do not know how much of that is true... maybe you know?
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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

January 29th, 2010, 5:16 pm #6


Well, Tang Soo Do is a Korean that is not unlike TKD in that it is primarily a kicking style.

>Also Chuck changed his style to universal way which added BJJ and TKD with Thai Boxing and Shotokan to the Tang Soo Do base system.<<br>
That would have been well after he won the IKCs three years in a row.

>I also herd rumors that he may have taken some lessons from Bruce Lee but I do not know how much of that is true... maybe you know?<<br>
I never found any information that would support this. The two did train together occasionally, however. I'm sure they exchanged ideas. OK, now I'm off to work!

Cheers
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Joined: January 16th, 2010, 11:59 pm

January 29th, 2010, 8:58 pm #7

No pun intended in no way was I knocking Korean martial arts,


I just found it a bit strange when these people would spar their arms would just hang down & they just threw kicks, that's all. They didn't seem to know what to do with somebody throwing upper body strikes at them as well. Like some have already said here I'm sure there are people in the Korean arts' that can use their hands' just fine. Chuck Norris is a perfect example & to still be going strong at his age more power to him! When it comes to people that really know how to spar in my opinion it's because they have a very good understanding of all the different ranges related to sparring. They do not limit themselves.


I'm no expert in sparring by any means though I do ok but I try to keep it simple & not over complicated. If I had been sparring somebody who was very good with their hands' then I would have adjusted & thrown more kicks to keep them out of hand range as much as I could. I'm over 40 now so of course I'm not as fast as I used to be when I was younger & the lumps & bruises seem to take a bit more time to go away. That being said when I do spar now I sit back & counter & pick my shots. Needless to say it worked out better for me last night as some of the guys' I sparred against were alot younger than me & faster so to trade shots back & fourth would have been a losing battle for me.

I think one of the best things about sparring regardless of our age is the ability to test out what we have been taught as far as techniques are concerned. We find out very fast what works & what doesn't. Sparring with people from different systems & styles also gives us a better understanding of how fighters from other systems will come at us. Before getting into Kempo I never knew what a spinning back fist was as in my previous training in Tai-Mantis it's not to be found. I couldn't use it last night as something like that is not allowed in TKD but I love to practice that technique & am allowed to use it when we spar at my Kempo dojo.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

January 29th, 2010, 10:19 pm #8

...is that Chuck Norris never fought full contact, unlike Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis.
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

January 29th, 2010, 10:20 pm #9

Some of the greatest tournament fighters hail from Korean styles. Chuck Norris comes to mind. John Natidivad and Byong Yu are two others. I'm sure Mr. White could add appreciably to this list.

Salute
This man was very good his resume has Korean also...

Dr. Roger Greene:

http://www.rogergreene.com/Resume.asp

Good art, some don't know, Mas Oyama is Korean and Shotokan was borrowed, also in Korea, back and forth is how it went for hundreds/thousands of years...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_martial_arts

Tough fighters, much tougher back in the day...man to man...IMHO...

Regards,
Gary
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Joined: August 27th, 2004, 8:34 am

January 29th, 2010, 10:37 pm #10

Here is something we can agree on. Did a seminar with him and taught some really good stuff. He basically validated something I've been teaching and doing for years. Gave me some new perspective on it as well.

Zoran Sevic
http://www.facebook.com/zoran.sevic
http://www.myspace.com/zoransevic
http://www.youtube.com/zoransevic
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