in'eresting...

in'eresting...

Joined: March 10th, 2004, 8:26 pm

October 19th, 2007, 12:10 am #1

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

October 19th, 2007, 12:21 am #2

I'm gonna live forever!

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 20th, 2004, 7:04 pm

October 19th, 2007, 3:59 am #3

Ya don't post much,

But when ya do it's with both feet. Bravo.

Back to the mats,

Angela
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 23rd, 2007, 2:37 am

October 19th, 2007, 4:52 am #4

and let out a sigh as I wondered how long it would take to show up here in this context. Personally, I think it's riduculous - a coddling reaction to the fact that more and more of today's youth can barely articulate a thought without the use of expletives. Great... I'm looking forward to the day when expecting one's employees to maintain an air of workplace professionalism is considered discrimination against those whose parents didn't teach them common decency and respect for others. Let's all talk like gangsta rappers instead. Woo-hoo!

At least the article makes this point: "abusive and offensive swearing caused stress and should be STAMPED OUT."

My opinion of this whole use-of-profane-language-on-the-forums issue and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee, (Maybe.) but here it is anyway...

First off, I am not a prude or a tight-ass. Generally, I'm not offended by the casual use of a well-placed profanity - as long as it isn't hurled at me in the form of an undeserved insult. My point, however, is this: As martial artists, we bow when we enter our schools; we salute our classmates and instructors; we strive to maintain a level of decorum that reflects our respect for our art and those who share our passion for it, and we look to our seniors and black belts to serve as role models. Why then, does that all go out the window for some of us when there is a difference of opinion from across the internet? Nobody is "whining" that their widdle ears got hurt by the bad ol' words, as someone somewhere insinuated. There are simply those who feel strongly that we should display some semblance of tact, courtesy, and class when we publicly represent the Kenpo community. I was browsing another forum where they have a nifty means of linking to hot-button topics. In two clicks of my mouse, I found myself on a thread that referred to another Kenpoist in rude, disparaging terms with big, bold print. Anyone with an interest in our art can view these forums, and I can honestly say that I am ashamed that such a visitor would have to wade through profanity-laced insults, four-letter taunts, and sexist remarks that would qualify as harrassment if uttered in the workplace. Is there really anyone who thinks this serves our image well? (I can't profess to imagine what a man of Mr. Parker's convictions would have to say about all this, but I have my presumptions.) Furthermore, I find it confounding that people who flaunt their vocabularies and pride themsleves on their writing abilities while putting down others would have a need to resort to the use of such language in the first place. (On a similar note: The Bard of Kenpotown, Mr. Kelley ain't. I get it. He get's it. We ALL get it! Can we PLEASE come off it.) If you absolutely need to get the point across that you feel passionately about an opinion, is it really too much to ask that you try using an exclamation point intead of an obscenity?

In parting, I'd like to relate a story, as I think it applies to the issue at hand... I was at the movies, and the people behind me were doing everything that is generally regarded as obnoxious to do in a movie theater. Talking loudly - to each other AND on the phone - kicking the chairs, etc. When I turned around and asked them to knock it off, the answer I got was, "I paid for my ticket, I'll talk all I want!" Now, I can't imagine that any of you would disagree that it was within my right to tell them to cram it, and I hope we're all in accord that they were being jerks. In this matter, I put to you that it is well within anyone's right to ask those who can't get their point across with civility to try harder to hold themselves to a higher standard of decency, and it is these people who are being the jerks.

Respectfully,
Dan Puleo CKF
Last edited by DanPuleo on October 19th, 2007, 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 23rd, 2007, 2:37 am

October 19th, 2007, 6:15 am #5

I honestly thought that I had put together a logical and polite enough argument that I might actually positively influence some people's perceptions on this issue. That was before I glanced over at that other forum I mentioned... I could not be more serious when I say that, if I didn't have the investment in Kenpo that I have at this point; if I hadn't made the bonds and friendships I now have because of Kenpo; if I didn't know better than to think that the garbage that's being spewed over there is reflective of the Kenpo community as a whole, I'd be moving on to study a different art. Utterly disgraceful. I would implore anyone who feels as I do at this moment to bite the bullet and just let them have their final say. However well-intentioned, nothing good can come from any rebuttal that adds fuel to this fire.

Deepest Sincerities,
Dan Puleo CKF
Last edited by DanPuleo on October 19th, 2007, 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 10th, 2004, 8:26 pm

October 19th, 2007, 12:38 pm #6

drops the F-bomb 138 times (according to wiki, i didn't count). did mamet get his point across? are we insulted? should it have been edited? substitute the word 'fruit' each time like they do with Goodfellas on TBS?

in fact, the reason i bring this up is this very text and drama is taught in my daughter's college english class. it is presented as an 'evolution' of the works of arthur miller (death of a salesman). this is being taught to young ladies and men preparing to be what... ENGLISH TEACHERS!

point is: it is just as easy to be insulting and demeaning without them there bad words, and to be inspiring and encouraging with a few cusses. vice versa is also true.

so much for the evolution of kenpo, when we can't accept evolution of something as simple as our language.

and for the record WE all do not BOW... at least i don't. sorry, 'nutha story.

Last edited by pete_l on October 19th, 2007, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 16th, 2004, 8:43 am

October 19th, 2007, 1:07 pm #7

and let out a sigh as I wondered how long it would take to show up here in this context. Personally, I think it's riduculous - a coddling reaction to the fact that more and more of today's youth can barely articulate a thought without the use of expletives. Great... I'm looking forward to the day when expecting one's employees to maintain an air of workplace professionalism is considered discrimination against those whose parents didn't teach them common decency and respect for others. Let's all talk like gangsta rappers instead. Woo-hoo!

At least the article makes this point: "abusive and offensive swearing caused stress and should be STAMPED OUT."

My opinion of this whole use-of-profane-language-on-the-forums issue and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee, (Maybe.) but here it is anyway...

First off, I am not a prude or a tight-ass. Generally, I'm not offended by the casual use of a well-placed profanity - as long as it isn't hurled at me in the form of an undeserved insult. My point, however, is this: As martial artists, we bow when we enter our schools; we salute our classmates and instructors; we strive to maintain a level of decorum that reflects our respect for our art and those who share our passion for it, and we look to our seniors and black belts to serve as role models. Why then, does that all go out the window for some of us when there is a difference of opinion from across the internet? Nobody is "whining" that their widdle ears got hurt by the bad ol' words, as someone somewhere insinuated. There are simply those who feel strongly that we should display some semblance of tact, courtesy, and class when we publicly represent the Kenpo community. I was browsing another forum where they have a nifty means of linking to hot-button topics. In two clicks of my mouse, I found myself on a thread that referred to another Kenpoist in rude, disparaging terms with big, bold print. Anyone with an interest in our art can view these forums, and I can honestly say that I am ashamed that such a visitor would have to wade through profanity-laced insults, four-letter taunts, and sexist remarks that would qualify as harrassment if uttered in the workplace. Is there really anyone who thinks this serves our image well? (I can't profess to imagine what a man of Mr. Parker's convictions would have to say about all this, but I have my presumptions.) Furthermore, I find it confounding that people who flaunt their vocabularies and pride themsleves on their writing abilities while putting down others would have a need to resort to the use of such language in the first place. (On a similar note: The Bard of Kenpotown, Mr. Kelley ain't. I get it. He get's it. We ALL get it! Can we PLEASE come off it.) If you absolutely need to get the point across that you feel passionately about an opinion, is it really too much to ask that you try using an exclamation point intead of an obscenity?

In parting, I'd like to relate a story, as I think it applies to the issue at hand... I was at the movies, and the people behind me were doing everything that is generally regarded as obnoxious to do in a movie theater. Talking loudly - to each other AND on the phone - kicking the chairs, etc. When I turned around and asked them to knock it off, the answer I got was, "I paid for my ticket, I'll talk all I want!" Now, I can't imagine that any of you would disagree that it was within my right to tell them to cram it, and I hope we're all in accord that they were being jerks. In this matter, I put to you that it is well within anyone's right to ask those who can't get their point across with civility to try harder to hold themselves to a higher standard of decency, and it is these people who are being the jerks.

Respectfully,
Dan Puleo CKF
I'll admit it up front, I swear like a sailor.

That being said, I understand completely the idea that such attitude carries inherent disrespect and should be eliminated from the training studio as much as possible (especially where children may also be training).

On the other hand... I use scenario training for advanced students, and I am at a loss to see how this could reasonably be done without using profanity and abusive language.

To avoid misunderstanding on this point: Scenario training uses verbal aggression, escalation to physical contact, something akin to a technique or counter as needed, and some form of escape/cover-out/disengaging maneuver. These emphasize adapting in uncertain circumstances, and being as real as we can safely simulate. A major aspect of this training is to utilize any and all means to ellicit an emotional response from the defender prior to engaging. It is also sometimes called "adrenaline training" or "emotional climatization".

I am just curious if there are people who utilize scenario training without resorting to expletives, profanity or abusive language.

Interesting article, and I appreciate Mr. Puleo's take on the subject.
Salute to all
-- Ian Rafferty
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 20th, 2004, 7:04 pm

October 19th, 2007, 1:26 pm #8

drops the F-bomb 138 times (according to wiki, i didn't count). did mamet get his point across? are we insulted? should it have been edited? substitute the word 'fruit' each time like they do with Goodfellas on TBS?

in fact, the reason i bring this up is this very text and drama is taught in my daughter's college english class. it is presented as an 'evolution' of the works of arthur miller (death of a salesman). this is being taught to young ladies and men preparing to be what... ENGLISH TEACHERS!

point is: it is just as easy to be insulting and demeaning without them there bad words, and to be inspiring and encouraging with a few cusses. vice versa is also true.

so much for the evolution of kenpo, when we can't accept evolution of something as simple as our language.

and for the record WE all do not BOW... at least i don't. sorry, 'nutha story.
Began due to "language",

And it wasn't the cuss words as much as the message that offended "these people" that felt the influence of the message through words was a problem. Classics such as Death of a Salesman, Of Mice and Men, Catcher in the Rye, Huck Finn, were banned and burned because of fear in the language used. If we had continued to listen to that great masterpieces of literature would have been lost forever had this "influence" continued. Thankfully that was not the case.

As for children and influence, I agree and I've said time and again in posts that I have three children at home and they all know the difference in the language used and when/why/how it's used for certain situations.

BTW my 15yr old son came home from his English class the other day and reminded me that the Bible is also on the banned book list...

That pretty much says it all.

Back to the mats,

Angela
Last edited by kenpoangel on October 19th, 2007, 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:41 pm

October 19th, 2007, 2:56 pm #9

Mr. Pete, you're from New York so this "should" be right up your alley!!

Just kidding sir... Cursing is the uneducated mind trying to find a way to express itself.

Say hi to Ms. Donna for me!

with Honor & Respect,
Lee Epperson
LTKKA Maryland
http://www.gaijinryu.com
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 20th, 2004, 7:04 pm

October 19th, 2007, 3:03 pm #10

Robert's gonna have a field day with that one!


Back to the mats,

Angela
Quote
Like
Share