I don't understand

I don't understand

Joined: August 23rd, 2006, 4:44 pm

September 20th, 2007, 2:03 am #1

This goes out to everyone that posts on this board. I don't do it often but I read the posts alot.

I seem to notice a few things:

1 there are the posts about upcoming seminars & camps
2. various congratulations on recent promotions (these are nice to read)
3 Pot shots about who is more kenpo than who. who teaches true parker kenpo.

This last one is the one I'm having a problem with. I'm not going to pretend that I've been around the kenpo world for many years. I'm relativly a youngster. I recieved my black belt In January of this year.

The thing that I have noticed is that kenpo is taught differently by everyone. Example Myself and my son both practice kenpo but we have 2 different teachers at different locations. My teacher does things differently than my sons eventhough both instructors had the same teacher. (not sure if that makes sense)

Even now when we're in class and doing for instance Delayed Sword when I first learned this it was taught off a left punch now we do it from an aggressive push or grab. Does that mean that we're wrong? Is my teacher going to burn in kenpo hell because he changed the attack?

I've thought about this a little and I think that people might be losing the concept of the principles that are behind all of the moves that we do.

It dosen't matter if Mr.Kelly's rank is legit does he have something positive to contribute? it doesn't matter if the ckf has alterior motives. Do there members and instructors have something positive to contribute to the art? What about GM Tatum or GM Trejo is anyone going after them. No Why? By some opinions on this board they should be crusified because they have put new twists on the kenpo system. But because it's Tatum and Trejo they get a pass. I guess what I'm trying to say is why don't we stop taking shots at each other and just enjoy kenpo.
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Joined: October 15th, 2006, 6:43 am

September 20th, 2007, 2:33 am #2

That is the main question now. There have been alot of changes by high ranking people. The two that you mention teach the systems as is and have not changed the sequence of techs etc. What we argue is the commercialism of the system.
No lomger can you say i do Kenpo its whose Kenpo do you do. Sean Kelley last post on here showed the different organisations out there and the many differences in the system.


CannonBall
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Joined: January 20th, 2004, 7:04 pm

September 20th, 2007, 4:16 am #3

This goes out to everyone that posts on this board. I don't do it often but I read the posts alot.

I seem to notice a few things:

1 there are the posts about upcoming seminars & camps
2. various congratulations on recent promotions (these are nice to read)
3 Pot shots about who is more kenpo than who. who teaches true parker kenpo.

This last one is the one I'm having a problem with. I'm not going to pretend that I've been around the kenpo world for many years. I'm relativly a youngster. I recieved my black belt In January of this year.

The thing that I have noticed is that kenpo is taught differently by everyone. Example Myself and my son both practice kenpo but we have 2 different teachers at different locations. My teacher does things differently than my sons eventhough both instructors had the same teacher. (not sure if that makes sense)

Even now when we're in class and doing for instance Delayed Sword when I first learned this it was taught off a left punch now we do it from an aggressive push or grab. Does that mean that we're wrong? Is my teacher going to burn in kenpo hell because he changed the attack?

I've thought about this a little and I think that people might be losing the concept of the principles that are behind all of the moves that we do.

It dosen't matter if Mr.Kelly's rank is legit does he have something positive to contribute? it doesn't matter if the ckf has alterior motives. Do there members and instructors have something positive to contribute to the art? What about GM Tatum or GM Trejo is anyone going after them. No Why? By some opinions on this board they should be crusified because they have put new twists on the kenpo system. But because it's Tatum and Trejo they get a pass. I guess what I'm trying to say is why don't we stop taking shots at each other and just enjoy kenpo.
They've both taken their shots on this forum,

I guess you missed those strands. They were mostly deleted once we started to defend them both so I could see how you missed it.

Anywho...
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Joined: September 14th, 2007, 3:58 pm

September 20th, 2007, 5:44 am #4

That is the main question now. There have been alot of changes by high ranking people. The two that you mention teach the systems as is and have not changed the sequence of techs etc. What we argue is the commercialism of the system.
No lomger can you say i do Kenpo its whose Kenpo do you do. Sean Kelley last post on here showed the different organisations out there and the many differences in the system.


CannonBall
First of all, GM Parker taught techniques differently to different students on purpose (in some cases) in order to relay a specific lesson to the student according to where they were on their personal Kenpo journey. So it's certainly possible that different people might differ on the specifics and both be correct.

But more importantly GM Parker himself understood the importance of having the Kenpo system continue to evolve and change. He himself did drastic changes to the martial arts as he understood that they were insufficient for modern America. He changed American Kenpo many times during his life. He wanted the martial arts to continue to change and be modified for the better - he understood that he hadn't made the perfect system. I think that this is one of the reasons he taught people and worked so hard to spread the art - so that future generations could continue the work of building upon Kenpo for the better.

So, in that light, isn't every branch of Kenpo true Parker Kenpo, so long is it retains the spirit and ideals he laid out? Wouldn't GM Parker be disappointed if his art remained exactly the same over the centuries? I also completely do not understand the need for arguing about who's Kenpo is more 'legit'. As long as people are passing on the art and always striving to improve themselves and their students, whether that means making Kenpo 5.0, adding in MMA to Kenpo, or teaching it alongside TKD or Yoga, then that is fine by me.

If their ideas are flawed and hurt the system, they won't continue to survive through the decades. Simple as that. Let them do as they will, if their ideas have merit, try to add that merit into your own Kenpo. If everyone were to strive to do this, instead of sit around complaining, I think the future of Kenpo would be much brighter (not that it isn't as is).


And as a side note, I think one of the reasons there is so much mudslinging is that it allows lazy Kenpoists to feel like they are active in the art of Kenpo, when in reality they are sitting a computer doing nothing.
No offense to those who've participated in the mudslinging, but next time maybe add in a couple hundred push ups instead, or go for a jog. At least that will have a positive benefit as the next day comes around, while arguing about how someone's rank is unjustified won't.
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Joined: August 14th, 2004, 8:13 am

September 20th, 2007, 9:31 am #5

This goes out to everyone that posts on this board. I don't do it often but I read the posts alot.

I seem to notice a few things:

1 there are the posts about upcoming seminars & camps
2. various congratulations on recent promotions (these are nice to read)
3 Pot shots about who is more kenpo than who. who teaches true parker kenpo.

This last one is the one I'm having a problem with. I'm not going to pretend that I've been around the kenpo world for many years. I'm relativly a youngster. I recieved my black belt In January of this year.

The thing that I have noticed is that kenpo is taught differently by everyone. Example Myself and my son both practice kenpo but we have 2 different teachers at different locations. My teacher does things differently than my sons eventhough both instructors had the same teacher. (not sure if that makes sense)

Even now when we're in class and doing for instance Delayed Sword when I first learned this it was taught off a left punch now we do it from an aggressive push or grab. Does that mean that we're wrong? Is my teacher going to burn in kenpo hell because he changed the attack?

I've thought about this a little and I think that people might be losing the concept of the principles that are behind all of the moves that we do.

It dosen't matter if Mr.Kelly's rank is legit does he have something positive to contribute? it doesn't matter if the ckf has alterior motives. Do there members and instructors have something positive to contribute to the art? What about GM Tatum or GM Trejo is anyone going after them. No Why? By some opinions on this board they should be crusified because they have put new twists on the kenpo system. But because it's Tatum and Trejo they get a pass. I guess what I'm trying to say is why don't we stop taking shots at each other and just enjoy kenpo.
Thursday, September 20, 2007

The main thing kenpoist’s should be aware of when learning from a practitioner of EP Kenpo is not the changes and alterations in the system he/she has made, but more the knowledge or lack of in the system as developed by EP. The EP American Kenpo system was developed through years of scientific study; the end result is a curriculum that enables the student to understand and speak the language with FLUENCY and CREATIVITY.

EP Kenpo is a language of motion, our language, the language that our community uses to communicate. Unfortunately, it’s seems to be going the way of our society today wherein our youth converses in a bastardized slang understood only by them but not necessarily having content. It is a case (in my opinion) of degeneration through ignorance and neglect, leading to a redefining of the system into an eclectic distribution of this is how I do it, rather like the English we speak today. Thus resulting in a communication breakdown. SOUND FAMILIAR? ‘Communication is the solvent of life,’ without the ability to communicate clearly we will continue to see the division in the art today.

How many people do you think reading this post are saying “Whatever”, “Who is this guy?” “I never heard of him, whatever”. And why? Because, the truth hurts. If it is to be confronted it must be worked and that includes study of the theory that EP spent years putting into print.

How many of the youngsters out there have read through the infinite insights volumes? And, more than once. Come on be honest! Well let me tell you, you would be saving yourself a lot of time at the keyboard if you did, and a lot of money on the seminar circuit, or at least money well spent.

Now that being said, advance comes from asking free-minded questions of nature, not from quoting the works and thinking the thoughts of bygone years. Recourse to precedent is an assertion that yesterdays mentors were better informed than today’s: an assertion which fades before the truth that knowledge is compounded of the experience of yesterdays, of which we have more, most certainly, than the best informed mentor of yesterday itself. This is something EP was aware of in developing the EP system, a system when applied CORRECTLY and UNDERSTOOD allows for the development of the language utilizing the fundamentals of that language to create new ideas that we can all understand and comprehend, this is art in its true sense.

If you cant understand or comprehend something it is either because one has no reality of the subject or it is to steep a gradient, if it is the former it is better left in its yard than fixed, that is unless we want the kenpobonixs to continue. The latter is an easy fix, GET BACK TO BASICS! The basics of the language are the structure that supports the communication of the language, in order for one to contribute to our system creatively we must all be on the same page, other wise their will be no create, and it is a true datum that the source of all aberration (a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome) is the cession of creation.

Best in kenpo,
Brye Cooper.
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Joined: September 17th, 2007, 5:06 pm

September 20th, 2007, 12:36 pm #6

Well thought out and stated Sir
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Joined: June 21st, 2004, 7:05 pm

September 20th, 2007, 2:33 pm #7

This goes out to everyone that posts on this board. I don't do it often but I read the posts alot.

I seem to notice a few things:

1 there are the posts about upcoming seminars & camps
2. various congratulations on recent promotions (these are nice to read)
3 Pot shots about who is more kenpo than who. who teaches true parker kenpo.

This last one is the one I'm having a problem with. I'm not going to pretend that I've been around the kenpo world for many years. I'm relativly a youngster. I recieved my black belt In January of this year.

The thing that I have noticed is that kenpo is taught differently by everyone. Example Myself and my son both practice kenpo but we have 2 different teachers at different locations. My teacher does things differently than my sons eventhough both instructors had the same teacher. (not sure if that makes sense)

Even now when we're in class and doing for instance Delayed Sword when I first learned this it was taught off a left punch now we do it from an aggressive push or grab. Does that mean that we're wrong? Is my teacher going to burn in kenpo hell because he changed the attack?

I've thought about this a little and I think that people might be losing the concept of the principles that are behind all of the moves that we do.

It dosen't matter if Mr.Kelly's rank is legit does he have something positive to contribute? it doesn't matter if the ckf has alterior motives. Do there members and instructors have something positive to contribute to the art? What about GM Tatum or GM Trejo is anyone going after them. No Why? By some opinions on this board they should be crusified because they have put new twists on the kenpo system. But because it's Tatum and Trejo they get a pass. I guess what I'm trying to say is why don't we stop taking shots at each other and just enjoy kenpo.
Great post! My thoughts exactly...less shots at each other and more kenpo talk. I have tried to post kenpo talk myself, but it seems people are more interested in pissing/moaning than actually discussing kenpo. I am glad to hear someone else is actually interested in talking kenpo instead of "my dad can beat up your dad" kind of talk.

-jeff l
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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:34 am

September 20th, 2007, 3:33 pm #8

Thursday, September 20, 2007

The main thing kenpoist’s should be aware of when learning from a practitioner of EP Kenpo is not the changes and alterations in the system he/she has made, but more the knowledge or lack of in the system as developed by EP. The EP American Kenpo system was developed through years of scientific study; the end result is a curriculum that enables the student to understand and speak the language with FLUENCY and CREATIVITY.

EP Kenpo is a language of motion, our language, the language that our community uses to communicate. Unfortunately, it’s seems to be going the way of our society today wherein our youth converses in a bastardized slang understood only by them but not necessarily having content. It is a case (in my opinion) of degeneration through ignorance and neglect, leading to a redefining of the system into an eclectic distribution of this is how I do it, rather like the English we speak today. Thus resulting in a communication breakdown. SOUND FAMILIAR? ‘Communication is the solvent of life,’ without the ability to communicate clearly we will continue to see the division in the art today.

How many people do you think reading this post are saying “Whatever”, “Who is this guy?” “I never heard of him, whatever”. And why? Because, the truth hurts. If it is to be confronted it must be worked and that includes study of the theory that EP spent years putting into print.

How many of the youngsters out there have read through the infinite insights volumes? And, more than once. Come on be honest! Well let me tell you, you would be saving yourself a lot of time at the keyboard if you did, and a lot of money on the seminar circuit, or at least money well spent.

Now that being said, advance comes from asking free-minded questions of nature, not from quoting the works and thinking the thoughts of bygone years. Recourse to precedent is an assertion that yesterdays mentors were better informed than today’s: an assertion which fades before the truth that knowledge is compounded of the experience of yesterdays, of which we have more, most certainly, than the best informed mentor of yesterday itself. This is something EP was aware of in developing the EP system, a system when applied CORRECTLY and UNDERSTOOD allows for the development of the language utilizing the fundamentals of that language to create new ideas that we can all understand and comprehend, this is art in its true sense.

If you cant understand or comprehend something it is either because one has no reality of the subject or it is to steep a gradient, if it is the former it is better left in its yard than fixed, that is unless we want the kenpobonixs to continue. The latter is an easy fix, GET BACK TO BASICS! The basics of the language are the structure that supports the communication of the language, in order for one to contribute to our system creatively we must all be on the same page, other wise their will be no create, and it is a true datum that the source of all aberration (a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome) is the cession of creation.

Best in kenpo,
Brye Cooper.
.
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Joined: May 7th, 2005, 4:07 pm

September 20th, 2007, 5:33 pm #9

Thursday, September 20, 2007

The main thing kenpoist’s should be aware of when learning from a practitioner of EP Kenpo is not the changes and alterations in the system he/she has made, but more the knowledge or lack of in the system as developed by EP. The EP American Kenpo system was developed through years of scientific study; the end result is a curriculum that enables the student to understand and speak the language with FLUENCY and CREATIVITY.

EP Kenpo is a language of motion, our language, the language that our community uses to communicate. Unfortunately, it’s seems to be going the way of our society today wherein our youth converses in a bastardized slang understood only by them but not necessarily having content. It is a case (in my opinion) of degeneration through ignorance and neglect, leading to a redefining of the system into an eclectic distribution of this is how I do it, rather like the English we speak today. Thus resulting in a communication breakdown. SOUND FAMILIAR? ‘Communication is the solvent of life,’ without the ability to communicate clearly we will continue to see the division in the art today.

How many people do you think reading this post are saying “Whatever”, “Who is this guy?” “I never heard of him, whatever”. And why? Because, the truth hurts. If it is to be confronted it must be worked and that includes study of the theory that EP spent years putting into print.

How many of the youngsters out there have read through the infinite insights volumes? And, more than once. Come on be honest! Well let me tell you, you would be saving yourself a lot of time at the keyboard if you did, and a lot of money on the seminar circuit, or at least money well spent.

Now that being said, advance comes from asking free-minded questions of nature, not from quoting the works and thinking the thoughts of bygone years. Recourse to precedent is an assertion that yesterdays mentors were better informed than today’s: an assertion which fades before the truth that knowledge is compounded of the experience of yesterdays, of which we have more, most certainly, than the best informed mentor of yesterday itself. This is something EP was aware of in developing the EP system, a system when applied CORRECTLY and UNDERSTOOD allows for the development of the language utilizing the fundamentals of that language to create new ideas that we can all understand and comprehend, this is art in its true sense.

If you cant understand or comprehend something it is either because one has no reality of the subject or it is to steep a gradient, if it is the former it is better left in its yard than fixed, that is unless we want the kenpobonixs to continue. The latter is an easy fix, GET BACK TO BASICS! The basics of the language are the structure that supports the communication of the language, in order for one to contribute to our system creatively we must all be on the same page, other wise their will be no create, and it is a true datum that the source of all aberration (a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome) is the cession of creation.

Best in kenpo,
Brye Cooper.
....sorry. Must've thought I was somebody else for a minute there

Good stuff.

James Hawkins III, SI
Hawkins Kenpo Ju Jitsu
Baltimore, MD
http://www.arnis.org/certification/regi ... awkins.htm
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kenpojujitsu3
http://www.myspace.com/kenpojames
410-948-1440
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Joined: August 14th, 2004, 8:13 am

September 20th, 2007, 9:38 pm #10

Thursday, September 20, 2007

The main thing kenpoist’s should be aware of when learning from a practitioner of EP Kenpo is not the changes and alterations in the system he/she has made, but more the knowledge or lack of in the system as developed by EP. The EP American Kenpo system was developed through years of scientific study; the end result is a curriculum that enables the student to understand and speak the language with FLUENCY and CREATIVITY.

EP Kenpo is a language of motion, our language, the language that our community uses to communicate. Unfortunately, it’s seems to be going the way of our society today wherein our youth converses in a bastardized slang understood only by them but not necessarily having content. It is a case (in my opinion) of degeneration through ignorance and neglect, leading to a redefining of the system into an eclectic distribution of this is how I do it, rather like the English we speak today. Thus resulting in a communication breakdown. SOUND FAMILIAR? ‘Communication is the solvent of life,’ without the ability to communicate clearly we will continue to see the division in the art today.

How many people do you think reading this post are saying “Whatever”, “Who is this guy?” “I never heard of him, whatever”. And why? Because, the truth hurts. If it is to be confronted it must be worked and that includes study of the theory that EP spent years putting into print.

How many of the youngsters out there have read through the infinite insights volumes? And, more than once. Come on be honest! Well let me tell you, you would be saving yourself a lot of time at the keyboard if you did, and a lot of money on the seminar circuit, or at least money well spent.

Now that being said, advance comes from asking free-minded questions of nature, not from quoting the works and thinking the thoughts of bygone years. Recourse to precedent is an assertion that yesterdays mentors were better informed than today’s: an assertion which fades before the truth that knowledge is compounded of the experience of yesterdays, of which we have more, most certainly, than the best informed mentor of yesterday itself. This is something EP was aware of in developing the EP system, a system when applied CORRECTLY and UNDERSTOOD allows for the development of the language utilizing the fundamentals of that language to create new ideas that we can all understand and comprehend, this is art in its true sense.

If you cant understand or comprehend something it is either because one has no reality of the subject or it is to steep a gradient, if it is the former it is better left in its yard than fixed, that is unless we want the kenpobonixs to continue. The latter is an easy fix, GET BACK TO BASICS! The basics of the language are the structure that supports the communication of the language, in order for one to contribute to our system creatively we must all be on the same page, other wise their will be no create, and it is a true datum that the source of all aberration (a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome) is the cession of creation.

Best in kenpo,
Brye Cooper.
Thursday, September 20, 2007

Thanks to all, for your encouraging responses, like I said, “It’s in your hands,” it was placed in your hands and remains in your hands, a Legacy that as long as you/we continue to study and teach the art of EP Kenpo as outlined will continue to grow. We will all be on the same page, the EP American Kenpo page.

If we choose to discuss other systems or methods of application, then we must take responsibility in realizing that these may well be beyond our scope and range, but as such in no way qualify as either superior or inferior, but are languages to be studied peripherally, at least until one has a command of his own language our language EP Kenpo, other wise they will not be able to be deciphered and translated (they will only be confronted with defensive ignorance), and then and only then incorporated into our own, if beneficial to the development of our own system.

Eclecticism in the art must have a foundation in truth and effectiveness, and be delivered with integrity and honesty.

Ed Parker : Book 5 pg.63 Tailoring – eleventh priority.
As a student SLOWLY digests the SYSTEM he is studying, he will invariably CONVERT the movements he has learned into a style, which is characteristic of HIM. This EVOLUTION must take place if the student desires to reach his FULL potential.

Whats the next topic?

Best in Kenpo,
Brye Cooper
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