hip movement in kicking

Joined: June 16th, 2011, 4:07 am
Hello everyone! I'm new to Kenponet Forum and am looking for someone to shed some light on something I've been confused about for a while now. I've heard that there is a certain way to move the hips when executing a kick, whether front, side, round, hook, back,etc., so that you not only obtain maximum power in your kick but avoid hip damage in the long run as well.

So what exactly are these hip movements? 3rd degree brown belt and I've never actually been taught these hip movements. Any enlightenment on this topic would be greatly appreciated.Thanks so much in advance!

Mike

Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 6:36 pm
waiting for an answer on KN is like watching paint dry. But I digress,

Watch out, Kenpo Koolaide is about to be dispensed......

Your hips rotate on two axial points, I call them,

X (clockwise and counter clockwise parallel to the ground)
Y (vertically up and down from front to to back and back to front).

Combine them and you get the Hula motion of XY (both clock or counter clock and vertically up/down.

Side thrust kick, using the knife edge of the foot, aiming with the hip and rotating on the ball of the opposite foot for extension; Hip rotation on the XY equal parts

Front Thrusting ball kick, using the ball of the foot, aiming with the knee and passing through the point of no return; Hip rotation on the Y axial

Arcing Roundhouse kick, using the ball of the foot sweeping up from the ground aiming with the knee and impacting upward in to the body cavity; Hip rotation on the X (the hips are no longer parallel to the ground but it's still the same.) There is less rotation because the kick acts more like a straight kick than a up/out/over/extension/retraction roundhouse kick. (The arcing kick gets there faster and does not expose you to a counter.)

Back HEEL kick, using the heel with the toes of the kicking foot as vertically aligned as possible; Hip rotation on the Y axial

Now if you want to talk foot rotation, I can do that to.

I can't wait for James to read the question and post something sophisticated and to the point, and that is when I shake my head and remember that I wanted to be James when I growed up. Go James!

Clark
WE ARE THE BORG........................IT ONLY HURTS FOR A LITTLE WHILE

Joined: May 7th, 2009, 2:29 am
Hello everyone! I'm new to Kenponet Forum and am looking for someone to shed some light on something I've been confused about for a while now. I've heard that there is a certain way to move the hips when executing a kick, whether front, side, round, hook, back,etc., so that you not only obtain maximum power in your kick but avoid hip damage in the long run as well.

So what exactly are these hip movements? 3rd degree brown belt and I've never actually been taught these hip movements. Any enlightenment on this topic would be greatly appreciated.Thanks so much in advance!

Mike
Work you kicks very slowly on a target like a tree. Do not kick the tree just touch it with the point of contact of your very slow kick. Change up the distance and height of the kicks in question as each change will produce a different kind of feeling. If you feel like youre straining to maintain balance during your kicking motion training the movement slowly will improve your balance. When you make contact with the surface of the target if you feel like you are at the very limit of your reach you are too far away for that kick, upon contact you should feel like you have the ability to go a bit beyond the surface. Now from that point of contact apply a little pressure as if trying to move the target. If you feel the target push you back your posture is flawed, your hip alignment is off and that means everything else is probably off as well. You can adjust your position so that your posture can maintain its integrity while exerting pressure with your kick, when you can do this your hips will have found the correct alignment for your body type and flexibility level.

You have to also remember the possibility of missing, being deflected captured or in some other way foiled can leave you vulnerable. So the next challenge is exploring the ways to kick so that even if you are foiled you maintain your balance. From the posture before the kick, the center moves to launch the kick so your body remains connected throughout the motion and any pressure applied from any direction to your body including the kicking leg may cause you to miss but will not break your posture and leave you in a position where you cannot be agile. Good luck in your training.

Joined: May 1st, 2006, 1:49 pm
Hello everyone! I'm new to Kenponet Forum and am looking for someone to shed some light on something I've been confused about for a while now. I've heard that there is a certain way to move the hips when executing a kick, whether front, side, round, hook, back,etc., so that you not only obtain maximum power in your kick but avoid hip damage in the long run as well.

So what exactly are these hip movements? 3rd degree brown belt and I've never actually been taught these hip movements. Any enlightenment on this topic would be greatly appreciated.Thanks so much in advance!

Mike
You are right to seek a correct way to kick,
Lower back and hip damage in years to come, may be a price you have to pay for that head shot, everyone is impressed with.
Prolonged exercising and kicking will in time cause damage, hip replacements are common for many martial artists. I suggest to students, a check up / xray every couple of years to ascertain damage.
Deteriation of ball and socket joint/the hip joint has being proved the bane of many a sport besides the Marial Arts.
Tap up sports injuries on your computer to learn more on the make up and the injuries of the hip joint.
You must fill the gaps, like correct warm ups, how to kick correctly,position of hip+knee+foot for each type of kick. When these are learned work on momentary balance and range. Like all natural weapons you use dont over extend the strike when you wish to penetrate the target.
Wear and tear must be monitered, pain is the way the body tells us not to do something and should not be ignored

Joined: June 16th, 2011, 4:07 am
waiting for an answer on KN is like watching paint dry. But I digress,

Watch out, Kenpo Koolaide is about to be dispensed......

Your hips rotate on two axial points, I call them,

X (clockwise and counter clockwise parallel to the ground)
Y (vertically up and down from front to to back and back to front).

Combine them and you get the Hula motion of XY (both clock or counter clock and vertically up/down.

Side thrust kick, using the knife edge of the foot, aiming with the hip and rotating on the ball of the opposite foot for extension; Hip rotation on the XY equal parts

Front Thrusting ball kick, using the ball of the foot, aiming with the knee and passing through the point of no return; Hip rotation on the Y axial

Arcing Roundhouse kick, using the ball of the foot sweeping up from the ground aiming with the knee and impacting upward in to the body cavity; Hip rotation on the X (the hips are no longer parallel to the ground but it's still the same.) There is less rotation because the kick acts more like a straight kick than a up/out/over/extension/retraction roundhouse kick. (The arcing kick gets there faster and does not expose you to a counter.)

Back HEEL kick, using the heel with the toes of the kicking foot as vertically aligned as possible; Hip rotation on the Y axial

Now if you want to talk foot rotation, I can do that to.

I can't wait for James to read the question and post something sophisticated and to the point, and that is when I shake my head and remember that I wanted to be James when I growed up. Go James!

Clark
WE ARE THE BORG........................IT ONLY HURTS FOR A LITTLE WHILE
First off, sorry for the late response. Things have been hectic!

What I really want to know is in what way are you suppose to move the hip? I don't get it. I've heard there is a right and a wrong way. I've been told i have good kicks but I just want to be sure that my hip movement is correct.

For example: a fellow Kenpoist was telling me that when doing a round kick you need to "turn the hip over"? In what ways could you move the hip to either hinder or improve your kicks?

I just don't understand. If I lift my knee and fire off a side knife thrust, wouldn't my hip just fall in line with the kick automatically?

Thanks in advance!

Mike

Joined: February 1st, 2005, 10:53 pm
one of the laws of kenpo is not to extend past the point of no return. This is demonstrated with concepts such as the outer rim and perimeter. To roll your hip over is to extend beyond this point.

To roll your hip over is a way to get more power in kick, specifically the round house.

Feel the difference in this: Left neutral bow... Rear leg round house kick, return to point of origin. If you rolled your hip over, you would not be able to return to point of origin with reverse motion. To roll the hip over is to commit to the action. Now try this. Left neutral bow ... rear leg round house kick. Full power, intend on letting the kick dictate the motion, blow through target, let the 360 degree turn happen and let the kick return you to your left neutral bow. Your hip should have "rolled over" to allow this to happen.

It lends to power once the motion is mastered. It's more of a Muay Thai application to the round house kick. Most of the round kicks in Kenpo are within a flow of motion where follow up is being considered. rolling your hip over during a kick hinders directional harmony...when directional harmony is the goal.

If I was you, I would keep in mind there are many ways to perform kicks, with many applications in need of situation. Some keep within kenpo law, some violate it. The beauty is, there is another art that would call it proper. So is it? I think so. There is a time and place for everything, so take it all in. I study kenpo, I study BJJ, I study Muay Thai. I have a fight coming up actually on the 9th in the cage. If I limited myself to the laws of kenpo, I might be pulled out of my comfort zone and taken advantage of. Better for me to take different perspectives. But nothing will train you better to stay in motion until your opponent is destroyed like kenpo. It is our mindset and what I believe to be my advantage in that arena. For me, I would advance on my opponent in a kenpo fashion, strike with intentions, create the opening, then take the head off the shoulders with the kick in discussion. Otherwise, the kick would be used within the motion and not violate directional harmony and be used as a tool within my flow of action, like in Evading the Storm or Attacking Mace...Same kick, two different apps, both proper.

There is extension and constriction of movement for various reasons. Its your job to decide which is best for you in what ever situation your in, there is a time and place for everything.

Joined: February 1st, 2005, 10:53 pm
and clark I like your discription of the axis. Right on brother.

Joined: February 1st, 2005, 10:53 pm
You are right to seek a correct way to kick,
Lower back and hip damage in years to come, may be a price you have to pay for that head shot, everyone is impressed with.
Prolonged exercising and kicking will in time cause damage, hip replacements are common for many martial artists. I suggest to students, a check up / xray every couple of years to ascertain damage.
Deteriation of ball and socket joint/the hip joint has being proved the bane of many a sport besides the Marial Arts.
Tap up sports injuries on your computer to learn more on the make up and the injuries of the hip joint.
You must fill the gaps, like correct warm ups, how to kick correctly,position of hip+knee+foot for each type of kick. When these are learned work on momentary balance and range. Like all natural weapons you use dont over extend the strike when you wish to penetrate the target.
Wear and tear must be monitered, pain is the way the body tells us not to do something and should not be ignored
yes, beware, we study the fighting arts. you could hurt yourself. that's a great mindset to train to become effective. ???

Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 6:36 pm
and clark I like your discription of the axis. Right on brother.
Thanks Albert (n/t)

Joined: June 16th, 2011, 4:07 am
one of the laws of kenpo is not to extend past the point of no return. This is demonstrated with concepts such as the outer rim and perimeter. To roll your hip over is to extend beyond this point.

To roll your hip over is a way to get more power in kick, specifically the round house.

Feel the difference in this: Left neutral bow... Rear leg round house kick, return to point of origin. If you rolled your hip over, you would not be able to return to point of origin with reverse motion. To roll the hip over is to commit to the action. Now try this. Left neutral bow ... rear leg round house kick. Full power, intend on letting the kick dictate the motion, blow through target, let the 360 degree turn happen and let the kick return you to your left neutral bow. Your hip should have "rolled over" to allow this to happen.

It lends to power once the motion is mastered. It's more of a Muay Thai application to the round house kick. Most of the round kicks in Kenpo are within a flow of motion where follow up is being considered. rolling your hip over during a kick hinders directional harmony...when directional harmony is the goal.

If I was you, I would keep in mind there are many ways to perform kicks, with many applications in need of situation. Some keep within kenpo law, some violate it. The beauty is, there is another art that would call it proper. So is it? I think so. There is a time and place for everything, so take it all in. I study kenpo, I study BJJ, I study Muay Thai. I have a fight coming up actually on the 9th in the cage. If I limited myself to the laws of kenpo, I might be pulled out of my comfort zone and taken advantage of. Better for me to take different perspectives. But nothing will train you better to stay in motion until your opponent is destroyed like kenpo. It is our mindset and what I believe to be my advantage in that arena. For me, I would advance on my opponent in a kenpo fashion, strike with intentions, create the opening, then take the head off the shoulders with the kick in discussion. Otherwise, the kick would be used within the motion and not violate directional harmony and be used as a tool within my flow of action, like in Evading the Storm or Attacking Mace...Same kick, two different apps, both proper.

There is extension and constriction of movement for various reasons. Its your job to decide which is best for you in what ever situation your in, there is a time and place for everything.

Basically, the hip movement is more of a subtle thing. Rather than focusing on which way to move the hip, it's better to just have control of the kick?

From when I started I just tried to imitate the way I've seen my instructors execute the kicks and I guess I do alright since I've been told a couple times that my kicks are good. It seems like when they do the kicks they focus more on the balance,accuracy,angles,method of execution,weapon employed,etc. But I don't think they've ever stopped to say "oh by the way move your hip like this when you do this kick or that one". So then would it be safe to assume that it's not really an important issue and that the hip sort of moves with the kick on its own?

What I mean is, if I chamber my left leg from a left neutral bow and snap a side heel, isn't the main action and focus on raising the knee and firing the heel out then returning to chamber quicker then the kick was thrown while keeping good balance, posture and striving for accuracy? I mean there is no particular way I should or shouldn't "move the hip" right? As long as I don't go past the point of no return and I hit my mark it works right?

Not to keep dwelling on this topic I just want to be sure I understand as my kicks are my most trusted weapons in a match or on the street and I'd hate to think I'm not even executing them properly.

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond!

Mike