Both sides?

Both sides?

Joined: March 5th, 2005, 2:18 pm

January 30th, 2009, 10:02 pm #1

Robert opened up a can of worms below and I'd like to push them around a while. I'm not a big believer in learning each technique on both sides since techniques are designed to teach principles however...

I can see the value in learning the left side of a few carefully chosen techniques. Techniques that are quick and to the point, and stem from a reasonably likely scenario. Techniques like Obscure Wing or Triggered Salute come to mind. So, here's the question, what would your top ten list of "learn it on both sides" techniques include?

Take it out on the heavy bag,

Chuck Peterson
peterson_charlie@hotmail.com

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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:34 am

January 31st, 2009, 1:13 am #2

I came up under the old 32 list, with both sides as a requirement. That, combined with being a lefty, makes it 1) easy for me to do things on the opposite side, 2) hard for me not to when I'm not supposed to. I get turned around in forms, and often end up doing one half on the right side, and the other half on the left, ending in some of the strangest positions, which only worsens the disorientation.

That being said, I think some strong candidates are techs with a lot of crossover skills to broadened apps. 5 Swords, due to it's unique ability to include many of the key core concepts in kenpo in one tech; Hookingg Wings and Parting Wings, for weapon develpment of the lead hand perpetuity in HW, and the stance-drives-weapon lessons in PW; Crossing Talon, taught to snatch attacks from the space in front of you, speaks to a variety of ills; Thrusting Salute for lead weapon development again; and old TAI version of Shield & Hammer called Circle of Fire; and Snapping Twig for body dynamics in constant motion, bleeding from one movement into the other. I would also apply some of the Freestyle techniques to this same both-sides list; soe stink, IMO, but somme contain some hidden brilliance and opportunity to develop range skills and directional harmony in combination that most folks miss by glossing over them.

Some things, to me, are already 2-soded, and it seems silly to me that we require them done on both sides; the SF1 & 2, LF 1, 2. Often justified by saying we need to do the other side because it's the only time in the system we do an obscure open angle change with the left foot to 7:30 or some other damn cat-com thing...I'd rather spend the time developing power on my rear overhand right cross; higher percentages, better return on investment, and all that.

D.
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Joined: February 28th, 2004, 1:04 am

January 31st, 2009, 1:39 am #3

Robert opened up a can of worms below and I'd like to push them around a while. I'm not a big believer in learning each technique on both sides since techniques are designed to teach principles however...

I can see the value in learning the left side of a few carefully chosen techniques. Techniques that are quick and to the point, and stem from a reasonably likely scenario. Techniques like Obscure Wing or Triggered Salute come to mind. So, here's the question, what would your top ten list of "learn it on both sides" techniques include?

Take it out on the heavy bag,

Chuck Peterson
peterson_charlie@hotmail.com
The whole purpose of doing anything on both sides is to bring both Hemispheres of your brain into play, the analytical and the creative.

I always loved the debate over weather Kenpo is an "Art" or a "System".....my favorite argument that I heard was that Art is for hanging on a wall.....

Interesting because, if you look at a Art as a creative endeavor, you eventually become analytical about it which in turn makes you consider possibilities or to become creative again....

Maybe if you consider this approach when doing forms or techniques the benifits will become clear?

Rich
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Joined: May 3rd, 2005, 8:25 pm

January 31st, 2009, 4:10 pm #4

....let's be clear. All's I said was that the BASE system is right-SIDED, and should be taught as such. If somebody wants to work on/play around with "the other side," seems perfectly reasonable...once they can execute the base moves, that is.

I'd also agree about the "creative," part, which is what the forms and extensions are in part for--though I'm not much on the whole, "bicameral mind," thingie.

Otherwise, I even agree that a lot of the claims about, "symmetry in the forms," sure sounds like a lot of hooey.

R.M. Robertson
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Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 3:09 am

February 1st, 2009, 12:24 am #5

I alway's train both sides no matter what. I hear people all the time said they don't need to train the Left side. One day those people will be faced to fight or defend from their weak side or Left side...........

Remember "Train Strong to Remain Strong"....
Speed, Power, and Accuracy.......
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Joined: March 5th, 2005, 2:18 pm

February 1st, 2009, 1:03 am #6

Sounds good but do you really:
a. think you will do a technique as written?
b. not be able to defend yourself on the left side if you don't train both sides?



Take it out on the heavy bag,

Chuck Peterson
peterson_charlie@hotmail.com

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Joined: January 19th, 2004, 2:11 am

February 1st, 2009, 1:09 am #7

I alway's train both sides no matter what. I hear people all the time said they don't need to train the Left side. One day those people will be faced to fight or defend from their weak side or Left side...........

Remember "Train Strong to Remain Strong"....
Speed, Power, and Accuracy.......
The techniques address this symmetrical issue. Techniques are designed to address left handed opponents, in fact, they're actually easier to cancel dimensions on because of where they put their centerlines. BTW, didn't you just take your first lesson in EPAK a couple of weeks ago? If so, then you should really keep your fingers off the keyboard until you have at least a rudimentary grasp of the system.


You just keep doing things on the left side if it makes you feel better or more confident though. The only thing I practice doing left handed is shooting, I'm not left eye dominant and the mechanics are different.


Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day



Clyde















[Posted by 66.215.244.139 via <a href="http://webwarper.net" rel="nofollow"></a>
Last edited by ClydeT on February 1st, 2009, 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 3:09 am

February 1st, 2009, 2:07 am #8

Yes I did just start EPAK. But I also Studied TKD, JKD, and Filipino Kali. Like I said I always train both sides no matter what the technique calls for. I don't care if the technique is written for one side or the other. Most techniques are for the right side such as JKD.

Because they believe in your strongest side forward, which for most people is the Right side. Who says it's written in stone, you should only train the side your instructor tells you. When I train on my own I train the way I want. In JKD I learned to fight in a Left fighting stance just as good as my Right fighting stance. Like I said I can punch, kick, block, strike on both sides evenly. It's not that hard, sometimes when I'm throwing a kick or strike I don't realize if it's my Right side or Left side.
If your one sided you'll be in trouble in the streets. All that matters is what you do in the streets...

Remember "Train Strong to Remain Strong"....
Speed, Power, and Accuracy.......
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Joined: May 3rd, 2005, 8:25 pm

February 1st, 2009, 2:10 am #9

The techniques address this symmetrical issue. Techniques are designed to address left handed opponents, in fact, they're actually easier to cancel dimensions on because of where they put their centerlines. BTW, didn't you just take your first lesson in EPAK a couple of weeks ago? If so, then you should really keep your fingers off the keyboard until you have at least a rudimentary grasp of the system.


You just keep doing things on the left side if it makes you feel better or more confident though. The only thing I practice doing left handed is shooting, I'm not left eye dominant and the mechanics are different.


Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day



Clyde















[Posted by 66.215.244.139 via <a href="http://webwarper.net" rel="nofollow"></a>
...and I'd axly SAID don't ever train the left side, that would mean something.

What I said was: playing aroung with the, 'other," side's a perfectly-reasonable way to explore the possibilities of kenpo. Once you know the base of the art.

Minor technical detail: if Mr. Parker'd MEANT that that was the primary focus, why is there Sword of Destruction as well as Delayed Sword?

A better critique of the "right-sided," argument would be this: clearly, the arts from which kenpo is most directly descended are in point of fact right-sided. OK, is this reality talking, or just old-timey ideas about, "sidedness," in which the left hand (AKA in Western culture, the, "sinister," hand) is the evil hand, associated as it is with darkness and femininity?

What one loses in the, "symmetricalness," beyond reality (so are you stepping out right half the time? have you seen Bergman's "Persona?" is your heart in the middle?) is a clear sense of the complementarity of the two sides of kenpo.

Maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right. But that sure seems to be the way kenpo's built....and the metaphysics I'm seeing cited to back up the idea of symmetry certainly aren't better grounded than the metaphysics on the other side of the argument.

Thanks,
(Uh-uh, baby, I got to)
Simon Bar-Sinister
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Joined: May 3rd, 2005, 8:25 pm

February 1st, 2009, 2:13 am #10

...which side Bruce Lee stuck forward. 'Course, I could be wrong, what with my bicameral mind and all. I'd ask the man, but I guess he crossed the streams.

Thanks,
R.M.
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