Anyone want to discuss kenpo?

Anyone want to discuss kenpo?

Joined: September 17th, 2007, 5:06 pm

September 20th, 2007, 5:41 pm #1

Just wondering,

Here is a topic:
Whats the difference between contact manipulation and Control Manipulation ?

Is there a conflict within Mr. Parkers Vol's of infinite Insights ?
Last edited by marshallskenpo on September 20th, 2007, 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

September 20th, 2007, 5:50 pm #2

If I steal this for another board where they actually chat about the art occasionally? I don't know the answer and I'd like to find out.

Thanks!
CT

Too late, I already stole it....mwahahahahaha! I gave you credit though.

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
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Joined: September 17th, 2007, 5:06 pm

September 20th, 2007, 6:02 pm #3

However it may be my topic
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Joined: April 10th, 2005, 11:41 pm

September 20th, 2007, 6:06 pm #4

Just wondering,

Here is a topic:
Whats the difference between contact manipulation and Control Manipulation ?

Is there a conflict within Mr. Parkers Vol's of infinite Insights ?
"Mr. Parker also taught at other levels, the ultimate aim of Kenpo was Control Manipulation. Something he didn’t include in the four ranges described in Motion-Kenpo. He felt the ability to control the destructive level of a confrontation was the important thing. It is also the hardest level to teach as well as to learn. Mr. Parker felt the Control Manipulation component was supreme. But don’t confuse it with what is called “contact Manipulation” in motion-Kenpo. There are major and minor ways of manipulating that have nothing to do with locks or holds."

From an article by Mr. Ron "Doc" Chapel.
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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:42 am

September 20th, 2007, 6:08 pm #5

Just wondering,

Here is a topic:
Whats the difference between contact manipulation and Control Manipulation ?

Is there a conflict within Mr. Parkers Vol's of infinite Insights ?
Hello Mr. Marshall,
I'll give it a go. Isn't contact manipulation basically once you've made contact with the opponent you can lock, dislocate, choke them out, etc.. and in control manipulation you're actually "guiding" your opponent to put him in a better position for you to strike whatever target you're wanting? Thanks for getting us back to kenpo!
Duke
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Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

September 20th, 2007, 6:10 pm #6

"Mr. Parker also taught at other levels, the ultimate aim of Kenpo was Control Manipulation. Something he didn’t include in the four ranges described in Motion-Kenpo. He felt the ability to control the destructive level of a confrontation was the important thing. It is also the hardest level to teach as well as to learn. Mr. Parker felt the Control Manipulation component was supreme. But don’t confuse it with what is called “contact Manipulation” in motion-Kenpo. There are major and minor ways of manipulating that have nothing to do with locks or holds."

From an article by Mr. Ron "Doc" Chapel.
Some examples maybe, please? It sounds like the concept that Judo practitioners have where control is the pinnacle of achievement. To control your opponent to the point where they can't even hurt themselves.

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
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Joined: September 17th, 2007, 5:06 pm

September 20th, 2007, 6:18 pm #7

Hello Mr. Marshall,
I'll give it a go. Isn't contact manipulation basically once you've made contact with the opponent you can lock, dislocate, choke them out, etc.. and in control manipulation you're actually "guiding" your opponent to put him in a better position for you to strike whatever target you're wanting? Thanks for getting us back to kenpo!
Duke
Could the right depth of contact penetration to a specific target provide control manipulation?
Do you actually have to touch someone to employ control manipulation?
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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:42 am

September 20th, 2007, 6:35 pm #8

Yes, I believe (according to the description I gave) that definately depth of penetration could "guide" your opponent to a desired position. As far a control manipulation without coming into contact with the opponent, I guess with just your own body positioning you could put your opponent into a limited number of positions if he is to be able to get through your defenses or get him to physically move his own body into a more beneficial position to you by using environmental obstacles? But this is a total guess by me. Still thinking! Waiting to hear your explanation!
Duke
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Joined: April 10th, 2005, 11:41 pm

September 20th, 2007, 6:36 pm #9

Some examples maybe, please? It sounds like the concept that Judo practitioners have where control is the pinnacle of achievement. To control your opponent to the point where they can't even hurt themselves.

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
The idea of Control Manipulation is to place someone in such an anatomically misaligned state that they cannot retaliate by hurting you or themselves. In the LEO world this is most desirable. Contact Manipulation doesn't at all suggest that the attacker is unable to attack, but that you are manipulating him/her through contact.
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Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

September 20th, 2007, 6:44 pm #10

Yes, I believe (according to the description I gave) that definately depth of penetration could "guide" your opponent to a desired position. As far a control manipulation without coming into contact with the opponent, I guess with just your own body positioning you could put your opponent into a limited number of positions if he is to be able to get through your defenses or get him to physically move his own body into a more beneficial position to you by using environmental obstacles? But this is a total guess by me. Still thinking! Waiting to hear your explanation!
Duke
all Kwai Chang on us.

Of course you can control an opponent without touching them. Use you ultimate weapon, your gray matter. Talk them down, bait them for a specific attack, call for help.

interesting....

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
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