American Kenpo/JKD

American Kenpo/JKD

Joined: November 10th, 2008, 1:33 am

November 18th, 2008, 12:54 am #1

Is it me or does Kenpo and JKD have the similar techniques? For example Neutral bow looks the same as the JKD fighting stance except the JKD raises the rear foot.

Kicks for example: scoop kick, oblique kick. Looks like Kenpo executes the knee kick the same way as JKD. The hand positioning in the fighting stance is similar.

The footwork is similar, except in JKD they use the triangle pattern instead of the clock principle. They both use the checking hand. Except JKD uses the rear hand to block or parry instead of the lead hand.

My BIG question is did Bruce learn from Ed Parker or did Ed Parker learn a few things from Bruce or did they both just shared ideas?

One more thing is Kenpo wheel kick a roundhouse kick in TKD? I just started Kenpo sorry about all the questions?

What do you think?

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Joined: June 1st, 2005, 5:34 am

November 18th, 2008, 1:03 am #2

That the average human body still has two legs and two arms, and only so many things can be done with the average amount of human joints and limbs.
You will find alot of similar weapons in any martial art you compare.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

November 18th, 2008, 1:04 am #3

Is it me or does Kenpo and JKD have the similar techniques? For example Neutral bow looks the same as the JKD fighting stance except the JKD raises the rear foot.

Kicks for example: scoop kick, oblique kick. Looks like Kenpo executes the knee kick the same way as JKD. The hand positioning in the fighting stance is similar.

The footwork is similar, except in JKD they use the triangle pattern instead of the clock principle. They both use the checking hand. Except JKD uses the rear hand to block or parry instead of the lead hand.

My BIG question is did Bruce learn from Ed Parker or did Ed Parker learn a few things from Bruce or did they both just shared ideas?

One more thing is Kenpo wheel kick a roundhouse kick in TKD? I just started Kenpo sorry about all the questions?

What do you think?
Mr. Parker and Bruce Lee did share a lot of ideas. I could elaborate, but I was not there. I know many who were, however, and I have heard several stories. They helped each other and Mr. Parker's system and Bruce's system have some similarities, but they are different.

Take Care,

Michael Miller
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Joined: January 23rd, 2004, 2:34 pm

November 18th, 2008, 4:08 am #4

Is it me or does Kenpo and JKD have the similar techniques? For example Neutral bow looks the same as the JKD fighting stance except the JKD raises the rear foot.

Kicks for example: scoop kick, oblique kick. Looks like Kenpo executes the knee kick the same way as JKD. The hand positioning in the fighting stance is similar.

The footwork is similar, except in JKD they use the triangle pattern instead of the clock principle. They both use the checking hand. Except JKD uses the rear hand to block or parry instead of the lead hand.

My BIG question is did Bruce learn from Ed Parker or did Ed Parker learn a few things from Bruce or did they both just shared ideas?

One more thing is Kenpo wheel kick a roundhouse kick in TKD? I just started Kenpo sorry about all the questions?

What do you think?
I don't think I've heard "wheel kick" used by kenpoists as part of official terminology. I have seen a couple different kicks called wheel kicks in other arts, one a rear-leg roundhouse and the other a stiff rear-leg hook kick (too often done with a completely straight leg, which just begs for a hyper-extended knee if it ever makes serious contact, but that's another issue).

Peace,
Scott

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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

November 18th, 2008, 7:02 am #5

Is it me or does Kenpo and JKD have the similar techniques? For example Neutral bow looks the same as the JKD fighting stance except the JKD raises the rear foot.

Kicks for example: scoop kick, oblique kick. Looks like Kenpo executes the knee kick the same way as JKD. The hand positioning in the fighting stance is similar.

The footwork is similar, except in JKD they use the triangle pattern instead of the clock principle. They both use the checking hand. Except JKD uses the rear hand to block or parry instead of the lead hand.

My BIG question is did Bruce learn from Ed Parker or did Ed Parker learn a few things from Bruce or did they both just shared ideas?

One more thing is Kenpo wheel kick a roundhouse kick in TKD? I just started Kenpo sorry about all the questions?

What do you think?
American Kenpo and JKD are vastly different. That said, it is important to realize that Jeet Kune Do isn't as much a "system" as it is an individual's approach to one's personal martial art. Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee's own personal martial art, which was based entirely on what worked for him. That being said, Bruce often remarked that what worked for him might get someone else killed. It is true that Mr. Parker stated that Bruce Lee was one in two billion. Over the years many have tried to duplicate Bruce Lee's personal art and have fallen far short. This is similar to what occurred when Muhammad Ali became world champ. Many new to boxing went to great lengths to duplicate Ali's unique style - the Ropadope, the Ali shuffle, float like a butterfly and sting like a bee, leading with the rear hand, knocking men out while going backwards, et. al. Many of those who tried to duplicate Ali's boxing style in the ring got knocked out. Many years ago a wise kenpoist pointed out, "Bruce Lee's students have had those moves longer than Bruce had them - so where are the champion fighters?" As far as similarities between kenpo and JKD, it is well known that, individually and collectively, Bruce viewed practically all martial arts systems as "the classical mess." In what is clearly an offhanded compliment, Bruce said that Mr. Parker's kenpo was the "best of the classical mess," which is why Lee had a preference to training kenpo black belts.

Respectfully,
tom bleecker
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:36 am

November 18th, 2008, 8:25 pm #6

Is it me or does Kenpo and JKD have the similar techniques? For example Neutral bow looks the same as the JKD fighting stance except the JKD raises the rear foot.

Kicks for example: scoop kick, oblique kick. Looks like Kenpo executes the knee kick the same way as JKD. The hand positioning in the fighting stance is similar.

The footwork is similar, except in JKD they use the triangle pattern instead of the clock principle. They both use the checking hand. Except JKD uses the rear hand to block or parry instead of the lead hand.

My BIG question is did Bruce learn from Ed Parker or did Ed Parker learn a few things from Bruce or did they both just shared ideas?

One more thing is Kenpo wheel kick a roundhouse kick in TKD? I just started Kenpo sorry about all the questions?

What do you think?
A punch or kick by any other name is still a punch or a kick. A technique is just an arrangement of basic blocks and strikes. The human body can only block and strike a finite number of ways.



American Kenpo is a "system" with a curriculum arranged in a way to make a student a competent fighter early, and to improve from there with time. The differences between AK and any other martial system/style are purely in the way the material is presented to the student.

edit for spelling
Last edited by KenMc on November 18th, 2008, 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 16th, 2004, 7:56 pm

November 19th, 2008, 7:33 am #7

Is it me or does Kenpo and JKD have the similar techniques? For example Neutral bow looks the same as the JKD fighting stance except the JKD raises the rear foot.

Kicks for example: scoop kick, oblique kick. Looks like Kenpo executes the knee kick the same way as JKD. The hand positioning in the fighting stance is similar.

The footwork is similar, except in JKD they use the triangle pattern instead of the clock principle. They both use the checking hand. Except JKD uses the rear hand to block or parry instead of the lead hand.

My BIG question is did Bruce learn from Ed Parker or did Ed Parker learn a few things from Bruce or did they both just shared ideas?

One more thing is Kenpo wheel kick a roundhouse kick in TKD? I just started Kenpo sorry about all the questions?

What do you think?
Bruce Lee studied Wing Chun. Bruce Lee also lived at Mr. Parker's house for some time and took many lessons from him at the Pasadena school. If JKD appears as a combination of Wing Chun and Kenpo, it would make great sense given the fact that Bruce Lee had trained in Wing Chun and had acquired some lessons from the founder of American Kenpo.

WI, AP
UKS
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

November 19th, 2008, 2:37 pm #8

American Kenpo and JKD are vastly different. That said, it is important to realize that Jeet Kune Do isn't as much a "system" as it is an individual's approach to one's personal martial art. Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee's own personal martial art, which was based entirely on what worked for him. That being said, Bruce often remarked that what worked for him might get someone else killed. It is true that Mr. Parker stated that Bruce Lee was one in two billion. Over the years many have tried to duplicate Bruce Lee's personal art and have fallen far short. This is similar to what occurred when Muhammad Ali became world champ. Many new to boxing went to great lengths to duplicate Ali's unique style - the Ropadope, the Ali shuffle, float like a butterfly and sting like a bee, leading with the rear hand, knocking men out while going backwards, et. al. Many of those who tried to duplicate Ali's boxing style in the ring got knocked out. Many years ago a wise kenpoist pointed out, "Bruce Lee's students have had those moves longer than Bruce had them - so where are the champion fighters?" As far as similarities between kenpo and JKD, it is well known that, individually and collectively, Bruce viewed practically all martial arts systems as "the classical mess." In what is clearly an offhanded compliment, Bruce said that Mr. Parker's kenpo was the "best of the classical mess," which is why Lee had a preference to training kenpo black belts.

Respectfully,
tom bleecker
Book that Bruce Lee wrote.

The huge difference between what Bruce Lee did and others in the Art of Kenpo as seen as AK or EPAK is the creativity. The following of an art that some feel is laid in stone and can not be changed, tweeked or experimented with, once learned.

I think this says it all for JKD compared to Kenpo "AK" style

"This book is Dedicated to the Free, Creative Martial Artist". First page of the Book

What is really funny about AK is similar to what happened with other arts that were taken (borrowed) from many sources and made into its own by a person who did exactly what Bruce Lee is talking about, and wanted others to do and find the Tao of their own creativity.

This is seen very clearly as what not to do by many in Kenpo. The funny thing about that is much of what is taught as EPAK is not, It is an interpretation of others who have stood on the mans shoulders and did what has been mentioned and created. Sort of a complex turn of events, and a lot of Irony.

Gary
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

November 19th, 2008, 2:45 pm #9

Bruce Lee studied Wing Chun. Bruce Lee also lived at Mr. Parker's house for some time and took many lessons from him at the Pasadena school. If JKD appears as a combination of Wing Chun and Kenpo, it would make great sense given the fact that Bruce Lee had trained in Wing Chun and had acquired some lessons from the founder of American Kenpo.

WI, AP
UKS
Chinese Opera is the name of what Bruce Lee was born into, a huge pool of information that he knew and EPS was in the very shallow end of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_opera

James Wing Woo could be said to have the same association as Bruce Lee did. But that would be wrong also.

Regards,
Gary
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Joined: March 10th, 2004, 8:26 pm

November 19th, 2008, 3:10 pm #10

Book that Bruce Lee wrote.

The huge difference between what Bruce Lee did and others in the Art of Kenpo as seen as AK or EPAK is the creativity. The following of an art that some feel is laid in stone and can not be changed, tweeked or experimented with, once learned.

I think this says it all for JKD compared to Kenpo "AK" style

"This book is Dedicated to the Free, Creative Martial Artist". First page of the Book

What is really funny about AK is similar to what happened with other arts that were taken (borrowed) from many sources and made into its own by a person who did exactly what Bruce Lee is talking about, and wanted others to do and find the Tao of their own creativity.

This is seen very clearly as what not to do by many in Kenpo. The funny thing about that is much of what is taught as EPAK is not, It is an interpretation of others who have stood on the mans shoulders and did what has been mentioned and created. Sort of a complex turn of events, and a lot of Irony.

Gary
"Everyone wants to tell you what to do and what's good for you. They don't want you to find your own answers, they want you to believe theirs." - Way of the Peaceful Warrior
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