Hunting with pistols...

Hunting with pistols...

Joined: March 16th, 2009, 1:43 am

April 6th, 2011, 1:52 pm #1

I have read many things on the argument of how much power is needed to "hunt" with and if pistol hunting is just a different word for pest control. Lets begin with this. Pest control IS hunting. Wheter you sit and wait for the mouse to come out from behind a bale of hay, or you sit on a stand with your bow in hand waiting for a deer, it is the same thing. So if you are pest controlling, all you are doing is hunting animals deemed to be a "nuisance" or a pest. I have had to stalk a squirrel for 1 hour and 20 minutes to be able to get a decent shot. And i have got a deer on shorter stalks... So any pursue in which you must outwit, out manouver and use "predatory" skills and instincts constitutes hunting. If you disagree with me, find the nearest murder of crows and try to get yourself within 30 yards... not that easy. As per any hunting, there are "shots of opportunity" and there are methodically prepared shots. Walking into the woods and getting to a stream where there is a buck drinking is luck; but raising your rifle, and placing a well aimed shot into the killzone before he hightails it out of there take skill, therefore we can considere it hunting. Also the level of sportmanship is declared by the hunger of the hunter. That buck at the stream may have been too easy a shot. If i am not starved i'll let it go... That squirrel in the feeder that does not know is being centered in the scope from inside a half open window... easy shot. Want more of a challenge? make some noise to startle it and then go look for it again... if you find it, and kill it, you have hunted a squirrel. In England they look down on pistol hunting, as if it was unsporting and inhumane. Love to take my fellow brits to the woods with a .44 mag revolver scoped. It is both effective and challenging, giving more of a chance to the quarry to live another sunrise. Well airgun hunting is just a scaled down version of hunting. Be it with a rifle or a pistol is all about knowing your prey, your gun and your own limits. The reason for this rant is to put to rest the uncertainty about what a Target gun and a sporting gun can do, be it powder or air. A "target" gun is just a more accurate, and sometimes less practical Hunting gun. A "target" rifle can take ground squirrels at 30 yards with a well placed shot. that is about 500 t0 600 fps in .177 in the right place. Lets not tell people they can't hunt with that as they will think the danger factor to be lessened, and may be less careful due to the "not dangerous" nature. I have purposely built a CO2 powered 2240, from parts in the work bench, that i will use as a small bird (sparrows, starlings) and mouse and chipmunk hunter. It is barreled in .177 with a spare 1377 barrel i had. the only custom part is the breech (crooked barn) and the valve was "massaged" at home with normal tools to get me a consistent shooter. It will give me 32 shots with superdomes at 470 FPS for a power level of 4 FPE. It is scoped with a 1.5/4x-18 scope and is zeroed at 8 yards with a far zero at 20 yards. This gun lives in my hiking backpack along a 1399 stock that is used to extend the range to its maximum hunting range of 33 yards. at that distance the pellet will still take a bird but the 5 inch drop requires a more stable platform. For stalking around the woods and farm, it is used as a pistol. I am confident enough that it will group the pellets within 1/2 inch anywhere within its killzone (5 yards to 21 yards). I am not the kind of person that takes pictures of the trophies but i will put my money where my mouth is and start to document the outings with this gun. Hopefully this will be the beginning of a cool series of post that will finally give insight to the hunter looking to downscale their safaris and still have fun during and of the hunting season.
Last edited by lillysdad621 on April 7th, 2011, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 11th, 2002, 5:51 pm

April 7th, 2011, 12:38 pm #2

.....since I agree with you that the skills are the same.

Good post, hope several answer you.

Randy

http://www.adventuresinairguns.com
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Joined: March 16th, 2009, 1:43 am

April 7th, 2011, 4:36 pm #3

even if no one answers, as long as it helps newcomers to nudge them into trying something new and exciting, the post did its job. I will post a pic of the rig tonight. I do not know if this is appropiate for the hunting gate... maybe it should be moved to a more "for reference" oriented forum? I will show and explain different aspects of gun ownership, maintenance, modding and use, so i'll leave it up to the moderator to do as he/she sees fit.
Last edited by lillysdad621 on April 7th, 2011, 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 6th, 2006, 3:27 am

April 18th, 2011, 7:12 am #4

I have read many things on the argument of how much power is needed to "hunt" with and if pistol hunting is just a different word for pest control. Lets begin with this. Pest control IS hunting. Wheter you sit and wait for the mouse to come out from behind a bale of hay, or you sit on a stand with your bow in hand waiting for a deer, it is the same thing. So if you are pest controlling, all you are doing is hunting animals deemed to be a "nuisance" or a pest. I have had to stalk a squirrel for 1 hour and 20 minutes to be able to get a decent shot. And i have got a deer on shorter stalks... So any pursue in which you must outwit, out manouver and use "predatory" skills and instincts constitutes hunting. If you disagree with me, find the nearest murder of crows and try to get yourself within 30 yards... not that easy. As per any hunting, there are "shots of opportunity" and there are methodically prepared shots. Walking into the woods and getting to a stream where there is a buck drinking is luck; but raising your rifle, and placing a well aimed shot into the killzone before he hightails it out of there take skill, therefore we can considere it hunting. Also the level of sportmanship is declared by the hunger of the hunter. That buck at the stream may have been too easy a shot. If i am not starved i'll let it go... That squirrel in the feeder that does not know is being centered in the scope from inside a half open window... easy shot. Want more of a challenge? make some noise to startle it and then go look for it again... if you find it, and kill it, you have hunted a squirrel. In England they look down on pistol hunting, as if it was unsporting and inhumane. Love to take my fellow brits to the woods with a .44 mag revolver scoped. It is both effective and challenging, giving more of a chance to the quarry to live another sunrise. Well airgun hunting is just a scaled down version of hunting. Be it with a rifle or a pistol is all about knowing your prey, your gun and your own limits. The reason for this rant is to put to rest the uncertainty about what a Target gun and a sporting gun can do, be it powder or air. A "target" gun is just a more accurate, and sometimes less practical Hunting gun. A "target" rifle can take ground squirrels at 30 yards with a well placed shot. that is about 500 t0 600 fps in .177 in the right place. Lets not tell people they can't hunt with that as they will think the danger factor to be lessened, and may be less careful due to the "not dangerous" nature. I have purposely built a CO2 powered 2240, from parts in the work bench, that i will use as a small bird (sparrows, starlings) and mouse and chipmunk hunter. It is barreled in .177 with a spare 1377 barrel i had. the only custom part is the breech (crooked barn) and the valve was "massaged" at home with normal tools to get me a consistent shooter. It will give me 32 shots with superdomes at 470 FPS for a power level of 4 FPE. It is scoped with a 1.5/4x-18 scope and is zeroed at 8 yards with a far zero at 20 yards. This gun lives in my hiking backpack along a 1399 stock that is used to extend the range to its maximum hunting range of 33 yards. at that distance the pellet will still take a bird but the 5 inch drop requires a more stable platform. For stalking around the woods and farm, it is used as a pistol. I am confident enough that it will group the pellets within 1/2 inch anywhere within its killzone (5 yards to 21 yards). I am not the kind of person that takes pictures of the trophies but i will put my money where my mouth is and start to document the outings with this gun. Hopefully this will be the beginning of a cool series of post that will finally give insight to the hunter looking to downscale their safaris and still have fun during and of the hunting season.
scoped PCP pistol with 30 FPE for turkey and long range squirrel, everything alse is covered with a hopped up 2240 on carts and open sights.
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Joined: June 11th, 2004, 3:53 pm

July 8th, 2011, 10:03 pm #5

I have read many things on the argument of how much power is needed to "hunt" with and if pistol hunting is just a different word for pest control. Lets begin with this. Pest control IS hunting. Wheter you sit and wait for the mouse to come out from behind a bale of hay, or you sit on a stand with your bow in hand waiting for a deer, it is the same thing. So if you are pest controlling, all you are doing is hunting animals deemed to be a "nuisance" or a pest. I have had to stalk a squirrel for 1 hour and 20 minutes to be able to get a decent shot. And i have got a deer on shorter stalks... So any pursue in which you must outwit, out manouver and use "predatory" skills and instincts constitutes hunting. If you disagree with me, find the nearest murder of crows and try to get yourself within 30 yards... not that easy. As per any hunting, there are "shots of opportunity" and there are methodically prepared shots. Walking into the woods and getting to a stream where there is a buck drinking is luck; but raising your rifle, and placing a well aimed shot into the killzone before he hightails it out of there take skill, therefore we can considere it hunting. Also the level of sportmanship is declared by the hunger of the hunter. That buck at the stream may have been too easy a shot. If i am not starved i'll let it go... That squirrel in the feeder that does not know is being centered in the scope from inside a half open window... easy shot. Want more of a challenge? make some noise to startle it and then go look for it again... if you find it, and kill it, you have hunted a squirrel. In England they look down on pistol hunting, as if it was unsporting and inhumane. Love to take my fellow brits to the woods with a .44 mag revolver scoped. It is both effective and challenging, giving more of a chance to the quarry to live another sunrise. Well airgun hunting is just a scaled down version of hunting. Be it with a rifle or a pistol is all about knowing your prey, your gun and your own limits. The reason for this rant is to put to rest the uncertainty about what a Target gun and a sporting gun can do, be it powder or air. A "target" gun is just a more accurate, and sometimes less practical Hunting gun. A "target" rifle can take ground squirrels at 30 yards with a well placed shot. that is about 500 t0 600 fps in .177 in the right place. Lets not tell people they can't hunt with that as they will think the danger factor to be lessened, and may be less careful due to the "not dangerous" nature. I have purposely built a CO2 powered 2240, from parts in the work bench, that i will use as a small bird (sparrows, starlings) and mouse and chipmunk hunter. It is barreled in .177 with a spare 1377 barrel i had. the only custom part is the breech (crooked barn) and the valve was "massaged" at home with normal tools to get me a consistent shooter. It will give me 32 shots with superdomes at 470 FPS for a power level of 4 FPE. It is scoped with a 1.5/4x-18 scope and is zeroed at 8 yards with a far zero at 20 yards. This gun lives in my hiking backpack along a 1399 stock that is used to extend the range to its maximum hunting range of 33 yards. at that distance the pellet will still take a bird but the 5 inch drop requires a more stable platform. For stalking around the woods and farm, it is used as a pistol. I am confident enough that it will group the pellets within 1/2 inch anywhere within its killzone (5 yards to 21 yards). I am not the kind of person that takes pictures of the trophies but i will put my money where my mouth is and start to document the outings with this gun. Hopefully this will be the beginning of a cool series of post that will finally give insight to the hunter looking to downscale their safaris and still have fun during and of the hunting season.
easier to carry in my backpack. Like you I have a 1377 bbl on a 2240 bottom with mod'd valve and other stuff...powerlets. Have a Phantom 2.5x scope on it. Good up to squirrels so far, haven't shot a rabbit with it yet.

My zero is 19yds because that's the length of my yard out the back door. I can hit a squirrel head consistently with 2 hands.

I like that you've done your research and practice. Hope some more non-Yanks have input.

Honestly, pistols are just more fun to play with and challenging to hunt with. My family's done the rifle bit all my life, so pistols are something unique to me.

Sorry for not posting sooner, I don't usually get to the hunting forum to often.

Be Well...

Be Well... Tom

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Joined: March 16th, 2009, 1:43 am

July 12th, 2011, 12:55 am #6

I have not held my side of the promise, as i havent posted a pic of the pistola yet. Truth of the matter is that i was having a really hard time grouping with that setup and tore the gun down several times to figure out why it would shoot 4 or 5 shots in a group, then throw a flyer, then another, then group again, and so on and so forth... it drove me insane, to the point i wanted to turn that barrel on myself...(jk)and then it hit me... so i tested the crown and rifling and voila! mangled pellet skirts... So, out of a barrel (and not proficient enough to recrown), my only option was barrel replacement. So i ended up using a 14 inch barrel that i had left over on the bench, that had been recrowned already (cut from a 24 incher) by the gunnies at Cobra Airguns. After installation and testing i came to the conclusion that it would be grossly underpowered and i did not want to wound any game, so I took the valve out, ported the gas port, resprung what i could with stiffer springs and that netted me a completely different animal.
So MK2 version of the hunter pistol pushes rws hobbies (11.9gr) at 540 fps for also 30 consistent shots. Also, having the opportunity to try some Ft pistol rigs, i became a firm believer in the Taco Hold and the use of riflescopes in a pistol. Ditched the original glass, now at the helm you'll find a bug buster 6x with AO and illuminated mildot reticle... Wicked...
So far i have had only a chance to measure it up with the spinners at home and let me tell you, at 25 yards the impact is serious!. I will be taking her for a field test to the local farm... but i nexpect it to do very well. Till then, au revoir...

PS. before the power test, i run some benched groups at 10 yards. Little cloverleafs with mostly anything. But wadcutters seem to be the pistols favorite pellets, be it meisterkulgens, hobbies, Gamo match (worst group, but still impressive) and crosman flatheads. So we are good in that department.
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Joined: March 16th, 2009, 1:43 am

July 21st, 2011, 11:26 pm #7

Well an opportunity did present itself even before i made it to the farm. I have 3 birdhouses that are every year the home to at least 2 finch families.I love to see the laborious finch females flying back and forth bringing food and twigs, and i am rewarded with the wonderful sound of baby finches in the morning, which seems to be the best company for a strong cup of coffee before work. a couple of days ago I saw 3 grackles moving into my yard and at first they only stole from the chicken coop... but the hens would generally scare them off and they did not seem to be bothering anyone else. When i get back from work today i witness a large grackle trying to get into the birdhouse as the adult finch tried to fend him off. They would fly off and then another grackle would try to get in, only to be twarthed by the returning, frantic finch. "oh no" says I, not fair 3 against one... So I loaded a fresh CO2 on the gun and was able to round off the house to the corner near the tree with the bird house. i observed and noticed that the finch was now being harrased into my neighbors yard, and that left the door open for the raiding grackle. I knelt behind a bush, and calculated the target to be about 23 yards away. As the pistol is zeroed at 20 it would be almost dead on. with a loaded hobby on board I adjusted the AO to 25 yards and held steady on the stick under the entrance of the bird house. in an instant the grackle swoops down and lands... though the scope i see him stick his head in the hole, then he feels "the heat" of the scope on his neck and like in slow motion turns to face me... too late, a pellet catches him under the eye and knocks him completely of his perch and into the ground.
I follow with the scope and see him kick up 2, maybe 3 times, and finally exhale...
The finch returns to fend him off but once on the perch, he turns, flies to the roof of the bird house and looks down on the offending bird. I am sure he saw me... and as i came out from behind the bush he sat there, motionless, looking at me with that understanding that he was ok, and that he belonged there, and that the man with the pistol was not a threat...
here is a pic of the offender and the tool used...
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Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 8:13 pm

July 23rd, 2011, 9:41 pm #8

Hi Gabe,
This is an excellent post and I enjoy reading about air pistol hunting. I'm in the UK and air pistol hunting is frowned upon and indeed banned on most forums. We have a 6fpe law for pistols. I have .177 and .22 BSA Ultras but am a keen Pistoleer and there is nothing a satisfying as a great shot with a pistol.

I'm curious to know what hold is used by American pistol shooters using rifle scopes. I've tried the Taco hold with a LD but I was shaking like a leaf. I have recently thought about and investigated aids to make the pistol a more stable platform.
Bipod
http://www.americanairgunhunter.com/renegadepistol.html
Sling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=415IYw2YUak
I have also started to visit Handgun Hunt that has a great section on shooting positions
http://www.handgunhunt.com/promo/member ... hat%20Work

I also enjoy looking at Chairgun that has some interesting figures
5.8fpe pistol .177 cal 7-29 yards with a 1" kill zone with 4.5fpe retained at 25 yards
I read several times the minimum energy required to kill a pigeon is 3fpe
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/ind ... pic=8336.0

I have several donor guns and bits with a few breeches on order to build 2x 1377, 2 x 2240 and 1 x 1740

Please keep the posts and comments coming.

Cheers
Ian
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Joined: March 16th, 2009, 1:43 am

July 23rd, 2011, 11:55 pm #9

Dear Ian...

I have noticed the general dislike for pistol hunting in the UK, and i guess it is there to make sure that most people do not end up wounding a tonne of animals... But there should be an understanding that not everyone is "castrated" to 6 fpe in pistols. As i stated my setup nets me 9 fpe and my max hunting range is 25 yards. I believe that if we can adhere to your "maximum hunting range" we could essentially hunt with anything. it seems silly but there are people that will ok my R7 for hunting and frown upon the crosman pistol, even though the crosman will create a cavity 41% larger than anything shot through the R7, and apply 3 more fpe at any given range OUT TO 25 YARDS.
Mind you, even without the power limit on rifles i have tuned some of my guns to shoot 12 fpe or under. And I have hunted with them out pass 75 yards succesfully.

As per the hold, It takes a while to master (I am still learning). What I do is to grab the scope from the top with my off hand, and hold it at correct eye relief distance, and my thumb pointing towards my face. It is shakey at first but slowly by firming or loosening the grip on the scope you can get it very steady (steady enough to push 5 pellets at 25 yards in a penny sized hole). also it allows you to place your scope hand's elbow on your knee, stand, table, tree, etc.
Now my trigger hand is loosely wrapped around the pistol grip, open fingers and i apply pressure with my thumb and index as if I was squeezing the pistol grip. Try this and see if it helps.

By the way, you own a great rifle if you have the .22 Ultra... I have been lusting over that gun for ages. I own a Air Arms s200 in .177, and a Beeman falcon R also in .177 .

As per the necessary fpe... with a headshot you dont need much, even less than 3 fpe...

Cheers.
Gabe
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Joined: October 14th, 2006, 12:30 am

October 8th, 2011, 3:32 pm #10

I have read many things on the argument of how much power is needed to "hunt" with and if pistol hunting is just a different word for pest control. Lets begin with this. Pest control IS hunting. Wheter you sit and wait for the mouse to come out from behind a bale of hay, or you sit on a stand with your bow in hand waiting for a deer, it is the same thing. So if you are pest controlling, all you are doing is hunting animals deemed to be a "nuisance" or a pest. I have had to stalk a squirrel for 1 hour and 20 minutes to be able to get a decent shot. And i have got a deer on shorter stalks... So any pursue in which you must outwit, out manouver and use "predatory" skills and instincts constitutes hunting. If you disagree with me, find the nearest murder of crows and try to get yourself within 30 yards... not that easy. As per any hunting, there are "shots of opportunity" and there are methodically prepared shots. Walking into the woods and getting to a stream where there is a buck drinking is luck; but raising your rifle, and placing a well aimed shot into the killzone before he hightails it out of there take skill, therefore we can considere it hunting. Also the level of sportmanship is declared by the hunger of the hunter. That buck at the stream may have been too easy a shot. If i am not starved i'll let it go... That squirrel in the feeder that does not know is being centered in the scope from inside a half open window... easy shot. Want more of a challenge? make some noise to startle it and then go look for it again... if you find it, and kill it, you have hunted a squirrel. In England they look down on pistol hunting, as if it was unsporting and inhumane. Love to take my fellow brits to the woods with a .44 mag revolver scoped. It is both effective and challenging, giving more of a chance to the quarry to live another sunrise. Well airgun hunting is just a scaled down version of hunting. Be it with a rifle or a pistol is all about knowing your prey, your gun and your own limits. The reason for this rant is to put to rest the uncertainty about what a Target gun and a sporting gun can do, be it powder or air. A "target" gun is just a more accurate, and sometimes less practical Hunting gun. A "target" rifle can take ground squirrels at 30 yards with a well placed shot. that is about 500 t0 600 fps in .177 in the right place. Lets not tell people they can't hunt with that as they will think the danger factor to be lessened, and may be less careful due to the "not dangerous" nature. I have purposely built a CO2 powered 2240, from parts in the work bench, that i will use as a small bird (sparrows, starlings) and mouse and chipmunk hunter. It is barreled in .177 with a spare 1377 barrel i had. the only custom part is the breech (crooked barn) and the valve was "massaged" at home with normal tools to get me a consistent shooter. It will give me 32 shots with superdomes at 470 FPS for a power level of 4 FPE. It is scoped with a 1.5/4x-18 scope and is zeroed at 8 yards with a far zero at 20 yards. This gun lives in my hiking backpack along a 1399 stock that is used to extend the range to its maximum hunting range of 33 yards. at that distance the pellet will still take a bird but the 5 inch drop requires a more stable platform. For stalking around the woods and farm, it is used as a pistol. I am confident enough that it will group the pellets within 1/2 inch anywhere within its killzone (5 yards to 21 yards). I am not the kind of person that takes pictures of the trophies but i will put my money where my mouth is and start to document the outings with this gun. Hopefully this will be the beginning of a cool series of post that will finally give insight to the hunter looking to downscale their safaris and still have fun during and of the hunting season.
There's one spot I squirrel hunt where at some point in the hunt I'll have an almost point blank shot opportunity, which has always resulted in a miss. Well on one hunt I made a point of taking my 2240/HiPac set-up. Sure enough, a gray comes down the tree I'm leaning against, hops over to an adjacent beech tree, and stares at me. I was ready for him this time.




I don't know that I'll ever hunt exclusively with a pistol, but it is a lot of fun but with my skills & out of respect for my quarry only works at extremely close range.






Vines
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