oneofmurphysbiscuits
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6:58 AM - Sep 06, 2017 #31

redhead wrote:That would mean that Swedish translation has been finalized, so if the SA wanted the translation, they'd have it. Also, I'm still new to Krasznahorkai. Is Seiobo a relatively good starting point?
You might well like it very much, red, given the breadth, depth of your readings in Asian literatures. Perhaps and for insight in to things predicated (Sontag's famous "apocalyptic" descriptor) you could try " The Melancholy of Resistance"(I've sometimes bought that for people by way of an introduction to). My favourites so far are War & War and Animalinside, and as much as I revere the man, and I do, I really did not like Destruction and Sorrow Beneath The Heavens at all and as I said in the ..reading now thread in November.
I only think, if that is the name for this vertiginous panic as of hornets smoked out of their nests, once a certain degree of terror has been exceeded
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Funhouse
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12:40 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #32

Didi wrote:One outside chance for this prize who is starting to get recognised both locally and at the international level:

Yankunytjatjara / Kokatha kunga Ali Cobby Eckermann

It would be a great cause for celebration if an Australian aboriginal woman won the prize. Through poetry she confronts history with force.
Hmm, interesting suggestion. I would have thought she doesn't have the body of work to be considered over the likes of Les Murray or Gerald Murnane if they're thinking Australian. She did win the American-based Windham-Campbell Prize earlier this year. And that was won last year by Helen Garner, who could probably be considered a reasonable candidate for the Nobel.

I saw Eckermann talk at the Wheeler Centre in Melbourne last year(?) and she read some of her poems, which certainly do have force. But the editors of Contemporary Australian Poetry, a big collection which came out earlier this year, only included a couple of her poems when other poets got five or six.

Would Alexis Wright be considered a more likely candidate for an Aboriginal woman, having won the Miles Franklin? I actually couldn't finish The Swan Book, so I'm not a big fan of hers...

Or for an Aboriginal man, Kim Scott, as a two-time winner of the Miles Franklin?

If we hope over the ditch, then the Maori writer Patricia Grace has the longer career and much bigger body of work than either Eckermann or Wright...
?He wishes he had never entered the funhouse. But he has. Then he wishes he were dead. But he's not. Therefore he will construct funhouses for others and be their secret operator--though he would rather be among the lovers for whom funhouses are designed.?
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DDR
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4:50 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #33

Didi wrote:Ah yes WLF have started early indeed I see. I have had a quick scan of that thread and your post on Cartarescu did cause me to reflect on his chances, you raise a fair point (his work is not easily defined and may possibly not easily fit in whatever may constitute “ideal” etc –but hey the jury shows enormous flexibility in this regard)

I have been of the firm view that Mircea Cartarescu was not there yet and that he needed to produce something else that goes above his previous works in order to be a true contender. Well having read Solenoid last summer (I will eventually post something more substantial in his thread), I think he’s got there now and he is likely to be the first Romanian language winner of the Nobel Prize.

I guess similarly with Krasznahorkai with regard to Baron Wenckheim's Return (but without the benefit of reading this – a number of translations due next year but not Swedish).

I see both winning the Nobel prize at some time. Both these authors and Olga as well may have recently produced what may be their defining masterpiece. I see all three winning at some stage. I am sticking with Olga to win this year – young she may be but she has been on the radar of the Swedish commentators from at least 2011.

I’ll come back on your other points soon.
I don't think age should be an obstacle for Tokarczuk winning this year. She is 55 years old, and if we check the list of the XXI century winners there are a few that have been award during their 50's (Jelinek 58, Pamuk 54, Müller 56, Mo YAN 57).

I'm really interested on your thoughts about Solenoid. It will be published next October in Spanish translation and it looks as a daunting task to read, not to mention to write.
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DDR
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4:57 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #34

nnyhav wrote:howzabout Nicanor Parra? he turned 103 today ...
I support that motion.

Although they have very slim chances to win I'll toss the names of four really old Latin American poets:

Ernesto Cardenal
Ida Vitale
Fina García Marrúz
Claribel Alegría


All of them are at their 90's.
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nnyhav
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5:46 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #35

digging back to alliknowis' 2011 analysis, his follow-up (with the struck down struck thru) still provides the best baseline:
wrote:To sum it up, the shortlist of leading contenders for the next five years IMO are:

Poetry- Bei Dao, Adonis, Ashbery, Hill, Transtromer, Sonnevi, Zagajewski, Jaccottet, Bonnefoy
Prose- Thiong'o, Atwood, Djebar, Malouf, Nadas, Krasznahorkai, Magris, Marias, de Palol, Khoury, Hwang Sok-yong.
Other- Cixous, Havel, Galeano.

In the next 6 years they will give it to:
Ngugi wa Thiong'o (Kenyan novelist)
Bei Dao (Chinese poet)
Margaret Atwood (Canadian novelist)
either Assia Djebar or Helene Cixous (French-language female prose writer)
either Adonis or Elias Khoury (Arabic-language writer)
and either Amos Oz or Vaclav Havel (elder statesman/icon)

In the future, but not within the next 6 years, they will give it to:
David Grossman
Javier Marias
Mikhail Shishkin
Hwang Sok-yong
Peter Nadas, Laszlo Krasznahorkai, or Mircea Cartarescu, at least one
Olga Tokarczuk
I'd put highly favorable odds on the next laureate coming from this list (excepting Atwood because Munro)

add: while I'm at it, last year's Ladbrokes openers (yeah I'd add Kadare and Fosse to the field) (and won't discount the chance that the Swedish Academy doubles down on pop culture with Murakami)
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Didi
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8:02 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #36

Funhouse wrote:
Didi wrote:One outside chance for this prize who is starting to get recognised both locally and at the international level:

Yankunytjatjara / Kokatha kunga Ali Cobby Eckermann

It would be a great cause for celebration if an Australian aboriginal woman won the prize. Through poetry she confronts history with force.
Hmm, interesting suggestion. I would have thought she doesn't have the body of work to be considered over the likes of Les Murray or Gerald Murnane if they're thinking Australian. She did win the American-based Windham-Campbell Prize earlier this year. And that was won last year by Helen Garner, who could probably be considered a reasonable candidate for the Nobel.

I saw Eckermann talk at the Wheeler Centre in Melbourne last year(?) and she read some of her poems, which certainly do have force. But the editors of Contemporary Australian Poetry, a big collection which came out earlier this year, only included a couple of her poems when other poets got five or six.

Would Alexis Wright be considered a more likely candidate for an Aboriginal woman, having won the Miles Franklin? I actually couldn't finish The Swan Book, so I'm not a big fan of hers...

Or for an Aboriginal man, Kim Scott, as a two-time winner of the Miles Franklin?

If we hope over the ditch, then the Maori writer Patricia Grace has the longer career and much bigger body of work than either Eckermann or Wright...
cannot disagree with you Funhouse. It was mainly because of this:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/boo ... uo0bd.html

Maori or Australian aboriginal winner would be very pleasing.

Realistically we know who would get it if an Australian was to win - heavy on the Swedish radar for some time.
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Didi
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8:06 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #37

I am unsure if Ladbrokes is to provide any odds this year- either not enough revenue from this or will place them late when there is more interest.

in case there are no odds, last years closing odds (copied and pasted from from nnyhav's 2016 post) were:

5/1 Ngugi Wa Thiong'o
6/1 Haruki Murakami, Adunis
8/1 Don DeLillo
12/1 Philip Roth, Jon Fosse
14/1 Ko Un
16/1 Bob Dylan, Javier Marias
20/1 Ismail Kadare, Joyce Carol Oates, Peter Nadas, John Banville, Antonio Lobo Antunes, Laszlo Krasznahorkai, Cesar Aira
25/1 Peter Handke, Amos Oz, Abraham B Yehoshua, Daniel Kahneman
33/1 Adam Zagajewski, Juan Marse, Kjell Askildsen, Doris Kareva, Mircea Cartarescu, Claudio Magris, Mia Couto
50/1 Ursula Le Guin, Marilynne Robinson, Nawal El Saadawi, Milan Kundera, Thomas Pynchon, Lydia Davis, Cees Nooteboom, Les Murray, Leonard Nolens, Gerald Murnane, Jaan Kaplinski, Jussi Adler-Olsen, Olga Tokarczuk, Yevgeniy Yevtushenko, Elena Ferrante, Navid Kermani
66/1 David Malouf, Peter Carey, Karol Schoeman, William Trevor, Yan Lianke, Bei Dao, Rohinton Mistry, Nuruddin Farah, Darcia Maraini, Margaret Atwood, Richard Ford, Karl Ove Knausgard, Paul Muldoon, Juan Goytisolo, Salman Rushdie, Cormac McCathy, Tom Stoppard, Colm Toibin, Joan Didion, Eduardo Mendoza-Garriga, Enrique Vila-Matas, Julian Barnes, Charles Portis
100/1 Don Patterson, A S Byatt, John Ashbery, James Kelman, Hilary Mantel, F Sioni Jose


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Didi
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11:30 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #38

Lets say we only include the women from the above list:

20/1 Joyce Carol Oates
33/1 Doris Kareva,
50/1 Ursula Le Guin, Marilynne Robinson, Nawal El Saadawi, Lydia Davis, Olga Tokarczuk, Elena Ferrante,
66/1 Darcia Maraini, Margaret Atwood, Joan Didion,
100/1A S Byatt, Hilary Mantel,

Lets say we cut out the Americans, the list becomes:

33/1 Doris Kareva,
50/1 Nawal El Saadawi,Olga Tokarczuk, Elena Ferrante,
66/1 Darcia Maraini, Margaret Atwood,
100/1A S Byatt, Hilary Mantel,

And we cut out the English language writers

33/1 Doris Kareva
50/1 Nawal El Saadawi, Olga Tokarczuk, Elena Ferrante
66/1 Darcia Maraini

Still thinking Olga will win.
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Didi
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11:37 PM - Sep 06, 2017 #39

Didi wrote:The Nobel prize for Literature has never been awarded to an Asian woman (who comprise about 30% of the world’s population).
I think the candidate which will be in the minds of the Academy will be Can Xue

I put her as second favourite after Olga Tokarczuk

I did read Frontier, it did not entirely meet the very high expectations I had, but in terms of what the Academy is thinking, Can must certainly be in their calculations.
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Didi
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12:22 AM - Sep 07, 2017 #40

Here is a list of the leading contemporary female Chinese writers (some probably too young for this prize, but a good list nevertheless):

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/7-chin ... hould-read

Edit: I never thought of Liao Yimei in this context before , but I certainly think she should be a consideration, I am unsure how well she is known outside Asia/Oceania- (does have a following in Australia) - but elsewhere ? - check her wiki entry.
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