redmill at domburg, 1911
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Joined: 1:53 AM - Nov 21, 2006

1:11 PM - Mar 30, 2017 #541

Good article on how Dylan's voice--more than his words--is his "poetry":

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/musi ... inger.html
( ... illegible ... )
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nnyhav
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nnyhav
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Joined: 12:26 PM - Oct 06, 2008

2:33 AM - Jun 06, 2017 #542

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/ ... cture.html
wrote:By listening to all the early folk artists and singing the songs yourself, you pick up the vernacular. You internalize it. You sing it in the ragtime blues, work songs, Georgia sea shanties, Appalachian ballads and cowboy songs. You hear all the finer points, and you learn the details.
[...]
I had all the vernacular all down. I knew the rhetoric. None of it went over my head – the devices, the techniques, the secrets, the mysteries – and I knew all the deserted roads that it traveled on, too. I could make it all connect and move with the current of the day. When I started writing my own songs, the folk lingo was the only vocabulary that I knew, and I used it.
But I had something else as well. I had principals [sic] and sensibilities and an informed view of the world. And I had had that for a while. Learned it all in grammar school. Don Quixote, Ivanhoe, Robinson Crusoe, Gulliver's Travels, Tale of Two Cities, all the rest – typical grammar school reading that gave you a way of looking at life, an understanding of human nature, and a standard to measure things by. I took all that with me when I started composing lyrics. And the themes from those books worked their way into many of my songs, either knowingly or unintentionally. I wanted to write songs unlike anything anybody ever heard, and these themes were fundamental.
Specific books that have stuck with me ever since I read them way back in grammar school – I want to tell you about three of them: Moby Dick, All Quiet on the Western Front and The Odyssey.
add: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... cture.html
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Funhouse
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Funhouse
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1:05 PM - Jun 14, 2017 #543

I'd just say, this is what you get when you make this kind of decision: it brings the whole prize into disrepute.

And anybody who says this isn't a clear case of plagiarism is kidding themselves. Any of my students would be failing if they submitted that to me.
wrote:Longtime Dylan fan and George Washington University English professor Dan Moshenberg told me no alarm bells went off for him while reviewing the passages
Moshenberg should be ashamed of himself.

As should Dylan. When you look at some of the brilliant past Nobel lectures, his is an embarrassment. He should have had the guts and grace to refuse the prize. As if he needs the money.

From the comments:
wrote:This is a great article, I would like to add that a Swedish literature reviewer Erika Hallhagen writes in "Svenska Dagbladet" (June 5 2017) on Dylan's Nobel lecture in an article: "Is this a joke, Bob Dylan?", she says that his lecture resembles a high-school essay. So she was closer to the thuth than she imagined. And of course all the idiots of the land criticized her for not being able to understand how brilliant the lecture really was.
?He wishes he had never entered the funhouse. But he has. Then he wishes he were dead. But he's not. Therefore he will construct funhouses for others and be their secret operator--though he would rather be among the lovers for whom funhouses are designed.?
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Joined: 5:03 PM - Jul 05, 2015

2:12 PM - Jun 14, 2017 #544

Thanks for bumping this, Funhouse. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise, since it doesn't look like editing your posts marks the thread as new.

What more needs to be said. They've encouraged a thief. At this point, he's like Shia LaBeouf with his "performance art." It still bothers me that they lied about the dates of announcing the prize (which Didi exposed); those poor members telling the majority not to go through with this awful decision.

And yes, good job pointing out Moshenberg. He seems like the Republicans who are against Trump but are too spineless to go against him because of party lines. We get it! You love Dylan! Not everything he does is saint-worthy.

I'm very curious about what happens with the copyright of this speech. If plagiarism is proved, he presumably loses it, yes? Of course, it would be nice to hear something from the 18, like calling him a reprobate, but they are not going to say anything bad about Dylan.
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Uemarasan
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Uemarasan
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Joined: 7:04 PM - Sep 07, 2015

10:09 PM - Jun 14, 2017 #545

Lol, well, theft is theft. But I wonder how much of it is attributable to cryptomnesia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia

The most plausible scenario is that he was rushing to submit the lecture, wanted to put in stuff about his literary inspirations, read Sparknotes for a "refresher", then handed it in.
Vulgar Auteurist
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Cleanthes
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Cleanthes
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4:06 PM - Aug 02, 2017 #546

It's too soon to create a new thread for the 2017 Nobel, but here it goes, anyway.

So, lately I've been reading potential Nobel laureates: Chinese and Korean novelists and German poets, to be precise. I've also been reading Izumi Kyoka and Miguel Torga, but I'll write about those last two in a future post.

Among the German poets, I've been reading Reiner Kunze, Friederike Mayrocker and Volker Braun. The bad news is that all of them might be a tad too old to win the Nobel.

The good news is that Volker Braun is very, very good, I mean Zbigniew Herbert kind of good. Even more good news, Friederike Mayrocker is so much fun to read (it's like she's the baby produced during a threesome between Ashbery, Stevie Smith and Gertrude Stein) that, because the English translation doesn't come with facing page German versions, I had to buy her collected poems in German to see what they look like in the original.
Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent.
?\_(ツ)_/?
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oneofmurphysbiscuits
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Joined: 9:12 PM - Apr 15, 2007

7:47 PM - Aug 02, 2017 #547

I used to love Herbert, long ago, Mayrocker here but unread
I only think, if that is the name for this vertiginous panic as of hornets smoked out of their nests, once a certain degree of terror has been exceeded
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