which qualifies for The Final?
R. Totale
Member
Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Dec 10 2015, 10:45 AM #51

Neal Cassady @ Dec 10 2015, 11:36 AM wrote:
R. Totale @ Dec 10 2015, 09:09 AM wrote:
Neal Cassady @ Dec 10 2015, 09:29 AM wrote: I went with The Classical - its currently tied at 40 a piece.
Lets call a spade a spade, either of these ditties would woop Blindness into a cocked hat!
I would absolutely not put The Classical on right now. I'd love to hear Blindness though.

The Classical was my fave tune when I first joined this board. I chose to evolve and move with the times. :devil:

The killer blow for me is which of Winter or The Classical would you play to a neophyte? Obv Winter as it makes clear what the Fall are about. Which of Winter and Blindness would you play a neophyte? Obv Blindness as it kicks arse and builds to a climax rather than plateauing.
Funnily enough I've got a Fall virgin staying over on Saturday, I'll make her a guinea pig for scientific FoF research. I'll go Winter & Blindness back to back.
If she goes Winter she's marriage material, if she goes Blindness I'll lock her in the cupboard under the stairs and bury the key in the garden.
If she goes Blindness pass her to me in some sort of sinister indie sex trafficking thing.
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"

robbroncs
Member
Joined: Apr 8 2005, 11:38 PM

Dec 10 2015, 10:54 AM #52

"who's gonna play me in the movie? STING!"

Neal Cassady
Member
Joined: Dec 8 2005, 11:05 AM

Dec 10 2015, 10:56 AM #53

R. Totale @ Dec 10 2015, 10:45 AM wrote:sinister indie sex trafficking
I think we need to move this discussion to the dark web.
I'll pm you ^_^
I'm not that good at smoking bongs, I'm not that good at breathing in.

bzfgt
Moderator
bzfgt
Moderator
Joined: Dec 7 2012, 03:12 AM

Dec 10 2015, 05:13 PM #54

I don't really care too much about the results of this round except that I feel like if "The Classical," which I love, wins it would be about the most boring result imaginable.

moonie
Member
moonie
Member
Joined: Jun 13 2004, 11:36 AM

Dec 11 2015, 11:55 AM #55

Winter - the song MES thought so highly of he chopped it in two.

R. Totale
Member
Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Dec 11 2015, 02:57 PM #56

Yes! Go Winter! Looking good..
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"

DeusErac
Member
Joined: Jun 21 2007, 01:24 PM

Dec 11 2015, 03:09 PM #57

R. Totale @ Dec 12 2015, 02:57 AM wrote: Yes! Go Winter! Looking good..
All we ever wanted was sanitary plumbing, straight roads, and a sense of belonging to a community of interest that could reasonably call itself civilized. (Charles Hayward)

jericsmith.com

purple_prince
Member
Joined: Aug 10 2015, 12:47 PM

Dec 11 2015, 05:40 PM #58

This poll has been bizarre. Neck and neck for a bit but steadily The Classical drew clear. Then, all of a sudden the Classical votes dried up almost completely. Go Winter! If I were backing The Classical, I'd scream CONSPIRACY!

gohoho90
Member
Joined: Nov 3 2010, 01:26 PM

Dec 11 2015, 05:46 PM #59

Currently 49-41.

Winter has won 20 of the last 25 votes. :o

DeusErac
Member
Joined: Jun 21 2007, 01:24 PM

Dec 11 2015, 06:02 PM #60

gohoho90 @ Dec 12 2015, 05:46 AM wrote: Winter has won 20 of the last 25 votes. :o
CONSPIRACY!!!

:grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

I think you should disqualify "Winter" for cheating and put "Noel" in its place as a more honest, trust-worthy entry in the Fall catalog, backed by serious, high-brow, Bondian types who get things done all proper like.
All we ever wanted was sanitary plumbing, straight roads, and a sense of belonging to a community of interest that could reasonably call itself civilized. (Charles Hayward)

jericsmith.com

R. Totale
Member
Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Dec 12 2015, 12:46 AM #61

DeusErac @ Dec 11 2015, 07:02 PM wrote:
gohoho90 @ Dec 12 2015, 05:46 AM wrote: Winter has won 20 of the last 25 votes.  :o
CONSPIRACY!!!

:grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

I think you should disqualify "Winter" for cheating and put "Noel" in its place as a more honest, trust-worthy entry in the Fall catalog, backed by serious, high-brow, Bondian types who get things done all proper like.
I was going to say the same, but putting Where's the Fucking Taxi Cunt in its place instead.
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"

elvischomsky
Member
Joined: Jan 13 2006, 04:26 PM

Dec 12 2015, 01:36 PM #62

'Where are the obilgatory niggers?
'Hey there fuckface'

Do you really have to ask???
'A good man and loyal' MES 2014.

I've never met a Fall fan I did like.

Tent
Member
Tent
Member
Joined: Feb 18 2013, 09:41 PM

Dec 12 2015, 02:28 PM #63

I have tried to right this travesty by voting for The Classical. I fear my vote is destined for the home of the vain hope.
:(

DJAsh
Member
Joined: Nov 17 2003, 09:45 PM

Dec 13 2015, 10:47 AM #64

Plod plod plod zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz joyless dirge
FLICKERING BOLIVIAN

No diggin' ere!

Shak99
Member
Shak99
Member
Joined: Jul 22 2013, 10:52 PM

Dec 13 2015, 10:51 AM #65

Both of these are the 'classic' Fall tracks incorporating all of the signature elements that would sum up The Fall to someone not acquainted with their body of work over 40 years. They are in their prime here, probably because shortly before this album was released they were considering it to be their last - and so MES is at his most cogent and vehement.
Musically The Classical is a complex sound: dense and compact in the overlays. Winter has a bassline of real gravitas which blends perfectly with the lyrics. Winter is about a different perspective of winter and so above all the song needed clarity of voice.

I would argue that the other two tracks should be Hip Priest and Leave The Capitol.

I went for Winter not because I think it is the greatest but because it was the track that was the gateway to me becoming a Fall fan. I should really have voted The Classical because it beats everything that is put up against it in the other semi final, but I'm voting on the basis that if Winter doesn't win it doesn't matter because The Fall is highly personal music.

Jim Kidder
Member
Joined: Oct 24 2007, 06:53 PM

Dec 13 2015, 03:21 PM #66

Shak99 @ Dec 13 2015, 10:51 PM wrote: if Winter doesn't win it doesn't matter because The Fall is highly personal music.
I agree with you.

Personally, I've never felt better in my life...
don't let the bastards get you down

DeusErac
Member
Joined: Jun 21 2007, 01:24 PM

Dec 13 2015, 03:37 PM #67

Jim Kidder @ Dec 14 2015, 03:21 AM wrote:
Shak99 @ Dec 13 2015, 10:51 PM wrote: if Winter doesn't win it doesn't matter because The Fall is highly personal music.
I agree with you.

Personally, I've never felt better in my life...
I agree that how we react to the Fall's music (and all other music) is highly personal, but I would also note that the thousands of members and millions of posts and thousands of polls here, and FOF created or supported codices, lexicons, grammars, diaries and other such sites indicate that there is a strong and active desire to somehow codify the Fall experience into a Hive Mind paradigm. We are proud individuals who want to be just like all the other proud individuals, celebrating our individuality all together, creating a different community that's just like all of the other different communities.
All we ever wanted was sanitary plumbing, straight roads, and a sense of belonging to a community of interest that could reasonably call itself civilized. (Charles Hayward)

jericsmith.com

Jim Kidder
Member
Joined: Oct 24 2007, 06:53 PM

Dec 13 2015, 03:40 PM #68

DeusErac @ Dec 14 2015, 03:37 AM wrote:
Jim Kidder @ Dec 14 2015, 03:21 AM wrote:
Shak99 @ Dec 13 2015, 10:51 PM wrote: if Winter doesn't win it doesn't matter because The Fall is highly personal music.
I agree with you.

Personally, I've never felt better in my life...
I agree that how we react to the Fall's music (and all other music) is highly personal, but I would also note that the thousands of members and millions of posts and thousands of polls here, and FOF created or supported codices, lexicons, grammars, diaries and other such sites indicate that there is a strong and active desire to somehow codify the Fall experience into a Hive Mind paradigm. We are proud individuals who want to be just like all the other proud individuals, celebrating our individuality all together, creating a different community that's just like all of the other different communities.
Yeah, I agree with that too. I think. :unsure:
don't let the bastards get you down

DeusErac
Member
Joined: Jun 21 2007, 01:24 PM

Dec 13 2015, 03:48 PM #69

Jim Kidder @ Dec 14 2015, 03:40 AM wrote: Yeah, I agree with that too. I think. :unsure:
Consider yourself assimilated then. One of many ones, all together, all alone.

Some of the Hive Mind truisms here certainly factor into the final four songs we're considering. I mean, look at "Winter" . . . from most technical, objective measures, it's a bit of shit as a song, especially in its split over two sides original studio incarnation. There's not a lot of there there from a musical standpoint.

BUT . . . much of the praise it wins here from folks who comment on it centers on its lyrics. Not on how MES delivers them, necessarily, but what he scribbled down on a piece of paper and then read in the studio or onstage. "MES as Poet" is a central Hive Mind trope here, and it's a strong enough one to carry a marginal piece of music to a possible title as the best Fall song ever.

As I wrote in an earlier post somewhere, I think the "Winter" love is a bit of an FOF unique phenomena not supported by critical or commercial experience outside of this online community. We all experience it individually, sure, but collectively it's one of the best example of a unique FOF belief structure, and that's what keeps carrying it forward.
All we ever wanted was sanitary plumbing, straight roads, and a sense of belonging to a community of interest that could reasonably call itself civilized. (Charles Hayward)

jericsmith.com

Jim Kidder
Member
Joined: Oct 24 2007, 06:53 PM

Dec 13 2015, 04:05 PM #70

DeusErac @ Dec 14 2015, 03:48 AM wrote:
Jim Kidder @ Dec 14 2015, 03:40 AM wrote: Yeah, I agree with that too.  I think.  :unsure:
Consider yourself assimilated then. One of many ones, all together, all alone.

Some of the Hive Mind truisms here certainly factor into the final four songs we're considering. I mean, look at "Winter" . . . from most technical, objective measures, it's a bit of shit as a song, especially in its split over two sides original studio incarnation. There's not a lot of there there from a musical standpoint.

BUT . . . much of the praise it wins here from folks who comment on it centers on its lyrics. Not on how MES delivers them, necessarily, but what he scribbled down on a piece of paper and then read in the studio or onstage. "MES as Poet" is a central Hive Mind trope here, and it's a strong enough one to carry a marginal piece of music to a possible title as the best Fall song ever.

As I wrote in an earlier post somewhere, I think the "Winter" love is a bit of an FOF unique phenomena not supported by critical or commercial experience outside of this online community. We all experience it individually, sure, but collectively it's one of the best example of a unique FOF belief structure, and that's what keeps carrying it forward.
I have a simpler explanation for what's going on here. The swing votes are going to Winter because The Classical is perceived to be the predictable "boring" pick. Sheer FOF contrarianism on display. I had to fight that tendency myself of course ... took me all week to get over that and cast my vote for the juggernaut of MES attitude that is ...The Classical! The Classical!
don't let the bastards get you down

DeusErac
Member
Joined: Jun 21 2007, 01:24 PM

Dec 13 2015, 04:10 PM #71

Jim Kidder @ Dec 14 2015, 04:05 AM wrote: I have a simpler explanation for what's going on here. The swing votes are going to Winter because The Classical is perceived to be the predictable "boring" pick. Sheer FOF contrarianism on display. I had to fight that tendency myself of course ... took me all week to get over that and cast my vote for the juggernaut of MES attitude that is ...The Classical! The Classical!
I agree with that, too . . . . iconoclasm is another FOF trope.
All we ever wanted was sanitary plumbing, straight roads, and a sense of belonging to a community of interest that could reasonably call itself civilized. (Charles Hayward)

jericsmith.com

Jim Kidder
Member
Joined: Oct 24 2007, 06:53 PM

Dec 13 2015, 04:22 PM #72

DeusErac @ Dec 14 2015, 04:10 AM wrote:
Jim Kidder @ Dec 14 2015, 04:05 AM wrote: I have a simpler explanation for what's going on here.  The swing votes are going to Winter because The Classical is perceived to be the predictable "boring" pick.  Sheer FOF contrarianism on display.  I had to fight that tendency myself of course ... took me all week to get over that and cast my vote for the juggernaut of MES attitude that is ...The Classical!  The Classical!
I agree with that, too . . . . iconoclasm is another FOF trope.
I think we also have a lot of closet proggers who want a Winter vs. Garden final. :P
don't let the bastards get you down

Mr. Marshall
Member
Joined: Jun 18 2004, 01:48 PM

Dec 13 2015, 05:24 PM #73

DeusErac @ Dec 13 2015, 03:48 PM wrote:
Jim Kidder @ Dec 14 2015, 03:40 AM wrote: Yeah, I agree with that too.  I think.  :unsure:
Consider yourself assimilated then. One of many ones, all together, all alone.

Some of the Hive Mind truisms here certainly factor into the final four songs we're considering. I mean, look at "Winter" . . . from most technical, objective measures, it's a bit of shit as a song, especially in its split over two sides original studio incarnation. There's not a lot of there there from a musical standpoint.

BUT . . . much of the praise it wins here from folks who comment on it centers on its lyrics. Not on how MES delivers them, necessarily, but what he scribbled down on a piece of paper and then read in the studio or onstage. "MES as Poet" is a central Hive Mind trope here, and it's a strong enough one to carry a marginal piece of music to a possible title as the best Fall song ever.

As I wrote in an earlier post somewhere, I think the "Winter" love is a bit of an FOF unique phenomena not supported by critical or commercial experience outside of this online community. We all experience it individually, sure, but collectively it's one of the best example of a unique FOF belief structure, and that's what keeps carrying it forward.
No offence but I think that's rubbish. Were you around when it was heard on Peel and Hex, way before the "hive-mind" existed?
Howdy to you

Got a light?

DeusErac
Member
Joined: Jun 21 2007, 01:24 PM

Dec 13 2015, 06:47 PM #74

Mr. Marshall @ Dec 14 2015, 05:24 AM wrote: No offence but I think that's rubbish. Were you around when it was heard on Peel and Hex, way before the "hive-mind" existed?
No offense taken. I was "around" as a Fall fan when "Hex" came out and acquired it soon after its release. I live in the U.S. so the whole Peel scene was not part of how I experienced the Fall. "Winter" didn't do much for me then, and still doesn't, even though I count "Hex" as one of my all time fave albums. I have remained surprised by the love for "Winter" here pretty much since I first started lurking about here in 2005 or so. (I didn't join as an active member until the 2007 Cup).
All we ever wanted was sanitary plumbing, straight roads, and a sense of belonging to a community of interest that could reasonably call itself civilized. (Charles Hayward)

jericsmith.com

Mr. Marshall
Member
Joined: Jun 18 2004, 01:48 PM

Dec 13 2015, 06:55 PM #75

DeusErac @ Dec 13 2015, 06:47 PM wrote:
Mr. Marshall @ Dec 14 2015, 05:24 AM wrote: No offence but I think that's rubbish.  Were you around when it was heard on Peel and Hex, way before the "hive-mind" existed?
No offense taken. I was "around" as a Fall fan when "Hex" came out and acquired it soon after its release. I live in the U.S. so the whole Peel scene was not part of how I experienced the Fall. "Winter" didn't do much for me then, and still doesn't, even though I count "Hex" as one of my all time fave albums. I have remained surprised by the love for "Winter" here pretty much since I first started lurking about here in 2005 or so. (I didn't join as an active member until the 2007 Cup).
Thing is that for me it's very much of its time which was the miserable crossover from 70s to 80s. It sums up the streets of the Northern cities, the resigned hopelessness of it all and then makes it abstract and elusive in the lyrics. So that is ur-Winter for me. How it works after is another song.

Also, it sounded like nothing else at the time, as if in reaction.
Howdy to you

Got a light?