Joined: Jan 26 2018, 02:59 PM

Jan 28 2018, 06:49 PM #501

Mark E Smith Made Me Cry wrote: If whoever ends up with his stuff has a load of tapes of his voice / word sketches or ideas, and his family are alright with it, a live tape controller member could be employed to reveal excerpts of him at various points over the band on stage.

I’m not being trite, or even necessarily recommending it, it’s just a thought.

Only his closest family and allies would know if it would have pissed him off or not.

No different than the Royal Philharmonic touring and recording with Elvis Presley footage, as they have been.
Someone should dig up Mark's raw Dictaphone tapes and compile them into a box set. I'm totally serious. I'd buy it.
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JTemperance
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Joined: Jan 26 2018, 09:57 PM

Jan 28 2018, 07:34 PM #502

Cheers for clearing the bongo quote up!
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Joined: Mar 3 2009, 02:11 PM

Jan 28 2018, 07:42 PM #503

Mark E Smith Made Me Cry wrote: If whoever ends up with his stuff has a load of tapes of his voice / word sketches or ideas, and his family are alright with it, a live tape controller member could be employed to reveal excerpts of him at various points over the band on stage.

I’m not being trite, or even necessarily recommending it, it’s just a thought.

Only his closest family and allies would know if it would have pissed him off or not.

No different than the Royal Philharmonic touring and recording with Elvis Presley footage, as they have been.
Quite different. MES performed his own work, largely, Elvis Presley didn't write his own material.
My brain is the most complex thing in the Universe. Hiccup said so.

"for the LOLZ!!!!"

'false bravado won't hide the cracks'
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S5 not Manc
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Joined: Nov 9 2004, 01:45 PM

Jan 28 2018, 08:12 PM #504

The Fall was my gateway drug into real music, true I owe a lot to Gaz for introducing me to the fall but still the fact remains. I remember going round to see Gaz and he had on "Dice Man from Dragnet", and that was enough to drag me into the wonderful and frightening world(sorry, but not sorry for the bad pun😉). If it wasn't for the fall I would have never have diversified my musical taste and they still remain one of my favourite bands. It is sad to know they will be no more, RIP Mark Edward Smith, thankyou for the good times.
Our eyes are red, our brains are dead.

S5 not Manc(Fall MBE)
----------------------------
Review a movie here . Movie review index
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dannyno
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dannyno
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Joined: May 11 2004, 03:28 PM

Jan 28 2018, 08:26 PM #505

dannyno wrote: Alright, so it's taken me about 10 seconds to track him down.   Now I've got to go and do some ironing, then I'll ask him for The Truth.

Unless anyone fancies doing it in the meantime:

https://twitter.com/johnrobinson101

Dan
Right, I've asked.  Usually I get ignored.  I'm looking at you, Pete Tong.

Dan
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Vvillager
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Joined: Nov 12 2004, 07:48 PM

Jan 28 2018, 08:40 PM #506

Not been following events recently so didn't know how ill MES had become.  Death is in in in in-evitable of course, but that just adds to the sadness.  Just been talking to my brother on the phone who doesn't get the Fall and tries to take the piss out of me a bit.  He offered his condolences, I said thanks, then started rabbiting on about how The Fall influenced me so much and how MES was a genius.  Half an hour later I was still in full flow and had to check he was still on the other end of the phone.  Well he brought it up....

Don't get to listen to as much music these days and it's not usually the Fall when I do play it.  But I did get an hour to myself last Sunday while the Missus was in the kitchen and chose to spend it listening to Light User Syndrome.  Pleased with my choice now given it was the last album I listened to before Mark's passing.  I feel I can justly claim to be a fan still.

A friend from work offered me a record deck and gave it to me to try today.  I plugged it in and then thrust my hand randomly into my vinyl collection to try a record.  I pulled out three, decided that I couldn't be arsed listening to Free or Fleetwood Mac and the next in line was Nord West Gas.  I wanted to play the last track on the record to see if the arm lifted up at the end (coz it doesn't on my player).  This was Paintwork.  Lovely, lovely track.  I played it twice.  I think the sad realisation finally caught up with me.

Love to all Fall fans x.
Last edited by Vvillager on Jan 29 2018, 09:13 PM, edited 1 time in total.
I stand on one leg at the top of the street.
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skip-rat
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Joined: Mar 15 2006, 02:03 PM

Jan 28 2018, 10:38 PM #507

BikeBloke wrote: Despite the sadness of the occasion, it has been nice to see a lot of old faces posting in this thread. I myself haven't been very active on here for a few years. It's nice to see you all, it feels a lot like a group hug at a the time when it's most needed 👍
A groop hug would be great. I've only ever been an occasional poster in these parts but MES, I miss you already. The Fall sound different now. 
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Sudost36
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Joined: Jun 9 2003, 10:50 AM

Jan 28 2018, 10:48 PM #508

It has been a difficult few days...
Yesterday, as I drove across Brighton I cranked up the recording from a year ago. The Engine Rooms in Southampton.
It was a late decision to go to that one;  drove young Toby and Mark along in exchange for a ticket. I had to be back in Brighton for work at 1am but it would all be over by 11, so no problem.
A meet up with Little Frank and others, a pint and a bite to eat then to the unpromising looking venue; a shed of a place surrounded by car dealerships.
The Fall were magnificent that night. From the first note of Wolf KM to the last of Wise OM , I danced with a smile on my face as wide as Southampton water, got right into me that night, as they had on countless other occasions. There I was, utterly delighted, Mark was on form with a bonkers 9 out of 10, and the gruppe out stooging the Stooges on Brillo.
A 90 minute set, half 11 they finished. I could still get to work for 1. So of course the M27 was closed and I'd get to work half an hour late. But it was The Fall and they were magnificent.
.... Like I said, it has been a difficult few days. I had to stop the cd, it's no good driving across town with eyes full of tears. I will miss him xxx
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Philh
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Joined: Sep 7 2006, 10:38 PM

Jan 28 2018, 11:16 PM #509

A few thoughts since Wednesday's dreadful news:

24 November 1984
In the kitchen of our flat on Richmond Road. My mate Bounder shouts through from the main room, “Hey Phil, there’s that band you like on the Old Grey Whistle Test. They’ve got a ballet dancer and his arse is hanging out.”

Fall gigs
I’ve seen them play in pubs, theatres, a cathedral (twice), a chapel, social clubs, a brewery, a holiday camp and a cinema. Sometimes I stand at the back and let it wash over me hoping to take in and process the whole event. Most times I like to be in the crowd often at the very front. I like being on the edge of the mosh-pit, getting a bit involved but keeping safe. Sometimes I just get in there. On occasions it’s so loud it pounds your chest and you think your ears will blister.

April 2013
There’s a message from a bloke on the Fall Online, a site where fans gather. He wants a volunteer to record a couple of upcoming northern gigs and he’ll arrange for equipment to be provided. I do some research and end up buying a little machine of my own which resembles a taser gun and costs a hundred and twenty quid. I get in touch and he talks me through how to use the controls. “Have a play with it Phil and, when you think you’re familiar with the controls you need to have a go under gig conditions. This means getting all the settings right in a pitch dark room using only the weak backlight on the screen. To make it as authentic as possible, have some music playing at the highest volume possible and, half way through, get your wife to come in and throw a pint of piss over you.” Thank you, Mark Howard. I recorded the Clitheroe gig on 25 April 2013. It was a success and within a few minutes of it going on the internet I was thanked by a someone in New York. I’ve recorded a few more since, with varying outcomes.

Gigs
Smith owns the stage. He shuffles, meanders, prowls and oh does he interfere. He lets the group know when a song’s done by drawing a finger across his neck. When he points to the side of the stage they troop off, sometimes together, sometimes not. After every gig you hear people leaving saying “he was so pissed” or “what’s he on?” Well I could never tell (except that night at the Cockpit. He was pissed that night).

2 November 2007
I drive over to Bolton for a gig at the Royal Albert Halls. Top mate, Roger, and my lad, John are with me and I find a good parking spot a couple of hundred yards from the gig down a cul-de-sac. After the gig I have to do a tight several-point-turn and at the half-way point my headlights are shining brightly on a young couple shagging on the steps of a building. They’re caught in the headlights, about ten feet from the car and don’t seem to notice us. 14-year old John maybe begins to think it’s alright going to gigs with his dad.

The Fall are all over this house. Mugs, T-shirts, badges and coasters. And there’s Jude’s red Fall bag and I’m looking at a framed copy of the ‘Elastic Man’ single on the wall in the office.

Saturday 2 July 2011
Jude’s worried about me. I’m working too hard and I’m stressed. She agrees to come and see the gig in Liverpool. I can’t believe it. She hates The Fall, “it’s his voice . . . it’s his voice”, yet she’s offering to go see them for the first time ever. She haggles. I have to agree to go to the Magritte exhibition at the Tate in the afternoon and to drive back. Deal.

Driving
I’ve followed The Fall all over the north of England. If you imagine Newcastle, Hull, Sheffield and Liverpool as the four points of the compass. I’ve seen them several times in all four and so many other places in between, especially along the M62 axis. So lots of dark and wet journeys both sides of midnight with the Fall blasting out, counting down the miles until I can have a cold one and post some rubbish on social media about the gig.

Fall gigs
Most Fall gigs have a broody atmosphere, many are edgy and a few are a bit menacing.

November 1978
The second single is released. I’m at Keele University, miles from civilisation, but I thumb it down to Birmingham every other weekend and I know where there’s a belting record shop. So that’s where I buy it. The b-side is ‘Various Times’, my favourite Fall song ever.

Sometime in 1997
I'm orking very hard and we've two young kids. Life’s wonderful but in terms of new music I’m floundering. I ask some of the young staff at work what I should listen to. Patrick Phillips lends me vinyl. Then he asks to come round and see my collection. God, no. It’s old stuff. It’s Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. It’s West Coast singer-songwriters. It’s Bowie, Dylan, Rox, King Crimson. But he comes round and I apologise, but . . . . he finds the punk and he’s interested. He finds The Fall and there’s something like ten CDs and loads of vinyl and copied cassettes, and he’s very impressed. It’s a wake-up call. I like The Fall don’t I? I like them one hell of a lot and I’ve got the beginnings of a collection here. So Smith's been lurking; hiding in plain sight. A sleeper, and I’ve woken him. On 1st
December 1997 I go to my first Fall gig at the Irish Centre in Leeds with Patrick Philips.

Listening
I listen to the Fall every day. I’m listening to ‘Serum’ as I type right now. It’s Day four and some fans can’t face hearing his voice yet. I was listening to him on Wednesday when I saw the unconfirmed news seeping out on to the internet. But I can’t remember what it was. I didn’t react much . . . . can you be calmly devastated? I just sat and had a bit of a think, searched the internet for confirmation, went downstairs to tell Jude and then began to contacting people.

Setlists
These are prized booty. I never bothered with them until Hebden Bridge when I was at the front of the stage and Elini’s sheet was as close to me as the computer screen is right now. Timing’s everything and when I pointed to it towards the end of the gig she gave me the nod. About three years ago I grabbed another and since then I've been quite partial to the thrill of the chase. I’ve just counted and I’ve got eight. I’ve given away a lot more.

30 January 1990 c.3am.
I’m back home after being with Jude as Sarah was born just before midnight. I’ve poured a decent sized whisky and I’m listening to the new Fall album, trying to process what’s just happened. Smith sings “these are the greatest times of my life, these are the finest times of my life” and that will do for now.

Normal Frenz
I’ve taken a lot of friends to Fall gigs, many of them first-timers. Some of them left it at that others came back for more. When they play in Leeds I send an e-mail out to see if anyone wants tickets. At one of the Christmas Brudenell gigs 16 of us went; including Jude who said she wasn’t staying in if everyone else was out enjoying themselves. I got so confused I ended up without a ticket for myself. Nathan Clark sorted me out. I’ve made some of you CDs of specially selected Fall tracksfor your birthday, and a few of you have even played them. I can’t see myself stopping doing this. Tim Davis has been my most constant companion and we’ve agreed the need for count up. He’s well into double figures.

Best gig
23 May 2015, Newcastle Riverside. Spoke with Daren Garratt straight after after the gig and told him I’d never seen or heard them play better. He was made up.

Favourite gig
31 March 2012, Jabeez Clegg, Manchester. The one I went to with both of the kids.

Bad gigs
There’s no such thing, but Bolton Albert Halls (November 2007), Leeds Stylus (November 2011) and Warwick Arts Centre (May 2014) were little below par. The other 73 were wonderful.

October 2016
Over seven days I see gigs in Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Falmouth and Luton. At the end of it Jude asks “Have you enjoyed yourself, then?” “It was one of the best weeks of my life,” I respond enthusiastically. This remark does not go down too well to be honest.

Fall Frenz
Can be counted in scores. I’d hate to overlook anyone so no attempt here to provide a complete list of names. The people I’ve been to the most gigs with and/or shared rooms withare James, Mark H, Pomfob, Prawn, Simon, Graeme, Tobi (who once made me change my plans by announcing a gig in Burnley which he’d made up) and Ben (and Chris G did crash on our floor in Clitheroe when Gaz locked him out that time). Age is irrelevant in Fall circles and I now have great new pals not yet old enough to cross the road like Connor and Kilian.

20 October 2017
I’m at the Unity Works Wakefield gig. Smith looked dreadful when they last played three months ago, but his entrance to the stage tonight was an awful shock. The man who owned the stage is now constrained by a wheelchair. He’s been pushed up a special ramp, his face is grotesquely bloated and even one of his arms is strapped close to his body in a sling. I now know he’s dying and I grab hold of Graeme Walker for support. But he’s Mark E Smith and he doesn’t give a . . . .

That’s enough. I had loads more to write about including driving from an evening gig in Clitheroe to Skegness for an afternoon gig at Butlins; taping all those Peel sessions as they were broadcast in the seventies; Berlin and Brooklyn; the Action Records stall at every gig; Safi and other assorted support acts (Evil Blizzard were the best); the box sets; the times I had the mic; Smith’s dress code; my mate's band learning how to play Cruiser's Creek at my wedding anniversary . . . . . . enough.

I’ve not said much here about the music. Well it certainly wasn’t easy listening. As Pete Slater once insisted when I had them on during a car journey. “That’s just not a song . . . . these aren’t songs.” He may be right. I can’t sing any Fall stuff in the shower; a snippet maybe but where’s the melody, where’s the chorus. But many people out there get it, and the rest of you just have to trust me that there is something to get. It’s uncompromisingly different to anything else. It’s music made by a genius.

So, me and Smith. He was confrontational to the core and I never wanted to confront him. Once he left the stage near to where I was standing, walked down some steps and needed to go past a steward who was so surprised he stuck out his hand and they shook. I wish that had been me, it was all I wanted from Smith. We had a great relationship. He carried on to the end and he never let me down.
What do we do now? I think the Fall community will draw together and meetings/events/celebrations will be organised. I have a lot of Fall friends from the Internet to chase up starting with four in New Zealand over the next few weeks. And if the funeral takes place before I go away, I’ll be one of hundreds who’ll make the trip. I have to be there. He was the best man I never met.
He was the best man I never met.
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rainmaster
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Joined: Mar 2 2008, 07:44 PM

Jan 28 2018, 11:56 PM #510

That's a lovely write up Phil, thank you.  
Best gig

23 May 2015, Newcastle Riverside. Spoke with Daren Garratt straight after after the gig and told him I’d never seen or heard them play better. He was made up.
I remember Daren coming on here after that gig and saying what a brilliant night it had been. It was the one with MES and Eleni dancing to 'Auto Chip' wasn't it? I also remember being gutted I missed it, what would have been my second gig after York the year before. At least at York I witnessed the first airing of 'Dedication', sadly Eleni wasn't on stage that night. Ah well. 
Grade A triple platinum cunt.
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Joined: Sep 19 2013, 09:51 PM

Jan 29 2018, 12:18 AM #511

rainmaster wrote: That's a lovely write up Phil, thank you.  
Best gig

23 May 2015, Newcastle Riverside. Spoke with Daren Garratt straight after after the gig and told him I’d never seen or heard them play better. He was made up.
I remember Daren coming on here after that gig and saying what a brilliant night it had been. It was the one with MES and Eleni dancing to 'Auto Chip' wasn't it? I also remember being gutted I missed it, what would have been my second gig after York the year before. At least at York I witnessed the first airing of 'Dedication', sadly Eleni wasn't on stage that night. Ah well. 
Philh's message was wonderful, thanks mate.
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Joined: May 9 2013, 05:10 PM

Jan 29 2018, 01:15 AM #512

had always hoped to see them at least one more time, having last seen them at their last Dublin show back in 2013. looking back at some of the footage of him last year it now feels inevitable that he wasn't gonna be long for this world.

feels odd to be living in a post-Fall world. despite being a good 32 years younger than MES i still almost thought i'd never see the day.
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damoncreed
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Joined: Feb 22 2005, 12:45 AM

Jan 29 2018, 01:24 AM #513

Been a tough few days and took a couple more days to be able to pull out some Fall music and listen to some of my own choosing.  Did commiserate with some old college radio dj pals of mine.  Received an email from one of them along the way who asked if I could share a mp3 of Bend Sinister's US 80's-90's. That cracked the door as I had to pull out Bend Sinister vinyl to digitize it, not having it on cd. Fired off US 80's-90's to my pal and have been wandering through the catalog since.  Built a mix this afternoon but Mixcloud wouldn't let me upload it.  Too many tracks in a row by the same artist.  Oh well.  Is it a desert island disc of Fall cuts? Not likely, but it has the cuts that struck my fancy today.  Fortunately for us, the body of work is sufficient enough to provide many more hours of putting together Fall playlists if so inclined.   My "Hex Enduction Hour And One Third" playlist:
  1. Garden
  2. (Jung Nev's) Antidotes
  3. Australians In Europe
  4. Two Librans
  5. Fol De Rol
  6. R.O.D.
  7. Before The Moon Falls
  8. Chicago, Now!
  9. Blindness
  10. My Ex-Classmate's Kids
  11. Jawbone And The Air-Rifle
  12. Free Range
  13. Gut Of The Quantifier
  14. It's A Curse
  15. The Man Whose Head Expanded
  16. Carry Bag Man
I must say, I did get misty eyed singing along to Carry Bag Man.

  • First recollection of Fall consciousness. 1983 while serving in the air force.  Thumbing through my dog eared copy of the original "Trouser Press Guide to New Wave Records" and reading the Fall entry.  Intrigued by phrases such as "...and has survived~even prospered, cult-wise~despite minimal commercial efforts..." and "...the band has created a large body of unpleasant, challenging, inaccessible anti-rock that occasionally turns out to be very moving" and "the band lurches and grunts along noisily..."  and "...one imagines that Public Image listened to the 1977 vintage Repetition a couple of hundred times..."  Well, this was too much to pass up.  Off I went to the local record shop to see if there was any chance of finding this lurching & grunting music.  Sure enough, a copy of Early Years 77-79 was there!  As others have commented recently, it was like a switch went on. I didn't know what the group was on about, but I definitely wanted more. In short order it was Live At The Witch Trials, Totale's Turns, HEH, In A Hole and PBL.  The habit didn't stop through thick & thin.
  • First live gig. March '85. The Palace in Hollywood CA.  Couldn't get any of my air force colleagues interested in going.  Last gig Nov 2001, Crocodile Cafe in Seattle WA.  A mystery to me why I didn't see the last show in Seattle, June 2003. Grateful for the gigs I did see. 
  • First & only meeting of MES. May '88 afternoon before the group's performance at the Moore Theatre in Seattle WA. Out of the air force at this point, back at university and hosting a radio show on the campus station KCMU. The Fall figure prominently in my sets. Fellow dj Bonehead and I finagle an interview, ostensibly for use on the air.  Just under two hours spent at a nearby pub where a lovely chat was had.  MES tapping his cigarette lighter on the table throughout rendered the tape unsuitable for airplay.  A small price to pay for the opportunity. He was very gracious and accommodating.   
"Not like that bastard gas, butane."
Twitter: @dj_damoncreed
Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/dj_damoncreed/
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iceland
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iceland
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Joined: Jun 6 2006, 02:16 AM

Jan 29 2018, 04:01 AM #514

I've said for a long time now that if I had to chose between listening to only The Fall for the rest of my life and no other music or all the music the world has to offer but without The Fall, I would easily chose The Fall. Mark E Smith is my favorite artist, writer (even though as an Oklahoma boy I can almost never understand him), singer, performer, etc... I often wake up, wander about my day and go to sleep pondering and obsessing over his genius. I've only been in the same room as him three times: Berlin 1990, and two nights in San Francisco 2006. I've never met anyone else who likes The Fall and only a few who have even heard of The Fall except on these three occasions. But I did raise my 7 kids on The Fall. My twins will walk home from school listening to NWRA. Or one of the kiddos will sit in the back yard enjoying nature with Birthday Song on repeat. One daughter told me that she measured her maturation by her growing appreciation of The Fall. We often throw around expressions like "Don't want to be a mit-dem!" or "From the riot torn street of Manchester England" (and then someone will make the tweaking guitar sound) or "Tonight (even though it is supposed to be 'Alright') we're going to go back to 1940". My favorite date ever with my ex-wife was the first night of the San Francisco gigs (I went to the second night alone). 

My introduction to The Fall was in 1989 while lying on the floor of the Berlin flat of a newly made West German friend. I was exhausted and about to fall asleep when I noticed an old mini cassette player lying on the floor. I looked around for a cassette tape and found one that said "The Fall Frenz Experiment" on one side and "Can" on the other side. I had no idea. It was rewound to The Fall side and so I put it in. I liked what I was hearing from the beginning but when Mark's voice came in with "duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh" I instantly sat up and new that I had found my group--the group that I had been looking for, the one made just for me. I can not describe the feeling I had listening to that song and then 15 seconds into Carry Bag Man I was slain. I staid up the whole night listening and the thrill has not stopped since. 

I am so thankful for this forum/ site. I often check in because you all know so much about lyrics and chords or whatever and goings on with The Fall and you were lucky enough to seemingly constantly attend gigs. I appreciate all the real time and post gig reviews, discussions about what Mark is actually saying in some new song and what the final name of the song will turn out to be. I did not necessarily care to hear people talking bad about the newer Fall output. I did not get it as I love The Fall from A to Z. (My second favorite all time song is Couples vs Jobless Mid 30s. And the only time I have ever disagreed with MES was when he said Ersatz GB was not a good album. I think it is brilliant).  But that did not keep me away. When Mark got sick I began checking in more frequently, each time holding my breath and hoping to not see any bad news. These past couple of weeks though I became overwhelmed with work and had not checked in. It was not until Saturday night when my oldest daughter face timed me from Berkeley and gently broke the news that I found out. My twins were there to hug me. I eventually went to another room to check out this forum and began to cry. 

Sorry to make this all about me when such a genius has died but, outside my family, I did not know where else to vent.  

I'm hesitant to share this part because it doesn't seem real but when I got in my car this morning the cd that was playing was Oxymoron and the song was E.S.P. Disco. It was at the 2:30 mark and the first words I heard were: "When I'm dead and gone, My vibrations will live on, (I did not understand the next line), People will dance to my waves." I don't know why this song was playing. It is not a song that I've paid much attention to and I definitely did not know the words except for the chorus. I now see that many others have commented on these lyrics. I guess he is saying that he knew he would create a mental anti-music dance hall for us all to live in even when he is dead and gone. Wow! We are so blessed!
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FromTheWest
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Joined: Jan 26 2018, 09:36 PM

Jan 29 2018, 07:05 AM #515

fallchase wrote: On the Fall fan's facebook page they are posting that MES has passed is this true/  
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FromTheWest
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Joined: Jan 26 2018, 09:36 PM

Jan 29 2018, 07:07 AM #516

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dannyno
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dannyno
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Jan 29 2018, 07:31 AM #517

Those no longer appear to be public posts, or have been deleted.  Er, as the embedded images say.

Can you summarise what they were about, if appropriate?

Dan
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Joined: Mar 3 2009, 02:11 PM

Jan 29 2018, 09:10 AM #518

rainmaster wrote: That's a lovely write up Phil, thank you.  
Yes, lovely.
My brain is the most complex thing in the Universe. Hiccup said so.

"for the LOLZ!!!!"

'false bravado won't hide the cracks'
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R. Totale
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Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Jan 29 2018, 09:31 AM #519

academichamilton wrote:
Starsky-Tandoori wrote: Not The Fall, without Mark E Smith. I'd expect the group would feel that way too, wouldn't you?  No one is suggesting they all retire, but they won't ever be The Fall again, ever. 
Time will tell. I genuinely don't know what they will be thinking. I guess it's a philosophical point as to whether they should ever call themselves The Fall again. In a way it doesn't matter that much.
AAAAAGGHHH!! OF COURSE IT MATTERS you loon! Since the band stopped being a democracy in 1979, the Fall has been Mark E. Smith's ideas in tune with his collaborators. 

If you want proof a non-MES line-up wouldn't work as the Fall, look at the Blue Orchids or Brix and the Extricated. Whatever they are, they're not the Fall and never could be, even if every ex Fall-member joined them on stage and Tony Friel came on to announce the band's name was actually his idea anyway...
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"
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Joined: Nov 25 2012, 07:22 PM

Jan 29 2018, 09:35 AM #520

iceland wrote: I've said for a long time now that if I had to chose between listening to only The Fall for the rest of my life and no other music or all the music the world has to offer but without The Fall, I would easily chose The Fall. Mark E Smith is my favorite artist, writer (even though as an Oklahoma boy I can almost never understand him), singer, performer, etc... I often wake up, wander about my day and go to sleep pondering and obsessing over his genius. I've only been in the same room as him three times: Berlin 1990, and two nights in San Francisco 2006. I've never met anyone else who likes The Fall and only a few who have even heard of The Fall except on these three occasions. But I did raise my 7 kids on The Fall. My twins will walk home from school listening to NWRA. Or one of the kiddos will sit in the back yard enjoying nature with Birthday Song on repeat. One daughter told me that she measured her maturation by her growing appreciation of The Fall. We often throw around expressions like "Don't want to be a mit-dem!" or "From the riot torn street of Manchester England" (and then someone will make the tweaking guitar sound) or "Tonight (even though it is supposed to be 'Alright') we're going to go back to 1940". My favorite date ever with my ex-wife was the first night of the San Francisco gigs (I went to the second night alone). 

My introduction to The Fall was in 1989 while lying on the floor of the Berlin flat of a newly made West German friend. I was exhausted and about to fall asleep when I noticed an old mini cassette player lying on the floor. I looked around for a cassette tape and found one that said "The Fall Frenz Experiment" on one side and "Can" on the other side. I had no idea. It was rewound to The Fall side and so I put it in. I liked what I was hearing from the beginning but when Mark's voice came in with "duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh" I instantly sat up and new that I had found my group--the group that I had been looking for, the one made just for me. I can not describe the feeling I had listening to that song and then 15 seconds into Carry Bag Man I was slain. I staid up the whole night listening and the thrill has not stopped since. 

I am so thankful for this forum/ site. I often check in because you all know so much about lyrics and chords or whatever and goings on with The Fall and you were lucky enough to seemingly constantly attend gigs. I appreciate all the real time and post gig reviews, discussions about what Mark is actually saying in some new song and what the final name of the song will turn out to be. I did not necessarily care to hear people talking bad about the newer Fall output. I did not get it as I love The Fall from A to Z. (My second favorite all time song is Couples vs Jobless Mid 30s. And the only time I have ever disagreed with MES was when he said Ersatz GB was not a good album. I think it is brilliant).  But that did not keep me away. When Mark got sick I began checking in more frequently, each time holding my breath and hoping to not see any bad news. These past couple of weeks though I became overwhelmed with work and had not checked in. It was not until Saturday night when my oldest daughter face timed me from Berkeley and gently broke the news that I found out. My twins were there to hug me. I eventually went to another room to check out this forum and began to cry. 

Sorry to make this all about me when such a genius has died but, outside my family, I did not know where else to vent.  

I'm hesitant to share this part because it doesn't seem real but when I got in my car this morning the cd that was playing was Oxymoron and the song was E.S.P. Disco. It was at the 2:30 mark and the first words I heard were: "When I'm dead and gone, My vibrations will live on, (I did not understand the next line), People will dance to my waves." I don't know why this song was playing. It is not a song that I've paid much attention to and I definitely did not know the words except for the chorus. I now see that many others have commented on these lyrics. I guess he is saying that he knew he would create a mental anti-music dance hall for us all to live in even when he is dead and gone. Wow! We are so blessed!
Great read. Thanks for posting. I think the personal reflections are totally legit here. It's what we all naturally do. There will be time enough for objective discussion of the art he created. 
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R. Totale
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Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Jan 29 2018, 09:35 AM #521

I do think that Friel is possibly the second most important figure in Fall history. 

Names carry power and had they not been called the all-time-best-band-name-ever moniker of the Fall, their significance and perhaps even their art might have been quite different and perhaps less influential.
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"
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tempertantrum
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Joined: Mar 16 2015, 03:43 PM

Jan 29 2018, 09:42 AM #522

"Our music bounces, so don't you get worried at all"
We are not adults, we are crusty mystics
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Buy Kurious
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Joined: Mar 24 2006, 07:48 PM

Jan 29 2018, 09:43 AM #523

R. Totale wrote: I do think that Friel is possibly the second most important figure in Fall history. 

Names carry power and had they not been called the all-time-best-band-name-ever moniker of the Fall, their significance and perhaps even their art might have been quite different and perhaps less influential.
Definitely. And I don't think their earlier idea to call themselves Flyman and the Fall, with MES dressing up as a fly and ending every sentence with "bzzzzz" would have had quite the same legs, somehow.
"We really made a groovy team but now alone I dream dream dream dream dream..."

RIP EC
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Philh
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Joined: Sep 7 2006, 10:38 PM

Jan 29 2018, 09:49 AM #524

iceland wrote: I've said for a long time now that if I had to chose between listening to only The Fall for the rest of my life and no other music or all the music the world has to offer but without The Fall, I would easily chose The Fall. Mark E Smith is my favorite artist, writer (even though as an Oklahoma boy I can almost never understand him), singer, performer, etc... I often wake up, wander about my day and go to sleep pondering and obsessing over his genius. I've only been in the same room as him three times: Berlin 1990, and two nights in San Francisco 2006. I've never met anyone else who likes The Fall and only a few who have even heard of The Fall except on these three occasions. But I did raise my 7 kids on The Fall. My twins will walk home from school listening to NWRA. Or one of the kiddos will sit in the back yard enjoying nature with Birthday Song on repeat. One daughter told me that she measured her maturation by her growing appreciation of The Fall. We often throw around expressions like "Don't want to be a mit-dem!" or "From the riot torn street of Manchester England" (and then someone will make the tweaking guitar sound) or "Tonight (even though it is supposed to be 'Alright') we're going to go back to 1940". My favorite date ever with my ex-wife was the first night of the San Francisco gigs (I went to the second night alone). 

My introduction to The Fall was in 1989 while lying on the floor of the Berlin flat of a newly made West German friend. I was exhausted and about to fall asleep when I noticed an old mini cassette player lying on the floor. I looked around for a cassette tape and found one that said "The Fall Frenz Experiment" on one side and "Can" on the other side. I had no idea. It was rewound to The Fall side and so I put it in. I liked what I was hearing from the beginning but when Mark's voice came in with "duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh" I instantly sat up and new that I had found my group--the group that I had been looking for, the one made just for me. I can not describe the feeling I had listening to that song and then 15 seconds into Carry Bag Man I was slain. I staid up the whole night listening and the thrill has not stopped since. 

I am so thankful for this forum/ site. I often check in because you all know so much about lyrics and chords or whatever and goings on with The Fall and you were lucky enough to seemingly constantly attend gigs. I appreciate all the real time and post gig reviews, discussions about what Mark is actually saying in some new song and what the final name of the song will turn out to be. I did not necessarily care to hear people talking bad about the newer Fall output. I did not get it as I love The Fall from A to Z. (My second favorite all time song is Couples vs Jobless Mid 30s. And the only time I have ever disagreed with MES was when he said Ersatz GB was not a good album. I think it is brilliant).  But that did not keep me away. When Mark got sick I began checking in more frequently, each time holding my breath and hoping to not see any bad news. These past couple of weeks though I became overwhelmed with work and had not checked in. It was not until Saturday night when my oldest daughter face timed me from Berkeley and gently broke the news that I found out. My twins were there to hug me. I eventually went to another room to check out this forum and began to cry. 

Sorry to make this all about me when such a genius has died but, outside my family, I did not know where else to vent.  

I'm hesitant to share this part because it doesn't seem real but when I got in my car this morning the cd that was playing was Oxymoron and the song was E.S.P. Disco. It was at the 2:30 mark and the first words I heard were: "When I'm dead and gone, My vibrations will live on, (I did not understand the next line), People will dance to my waves." I don't know why this song was playing. It is not a song that I've paid much attention to and I definitely did not know the words except for the chorus. I now see that many others have commented on these lyrics. I guess he is saying that he knew he would create a mental anti-music dance hall for us all to live in even when he is dead and gone. Wow! We are so blessed!
Real quality here. Thanks
He was the best man I never met.
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neilfws
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neilfws
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Joined: Jan 25 2018, 05:43 AM

Jan 29 2018, 10:55 AM #525

Look at this, a real forum now. Back in my day - about 1993 to 1998 - it was a mailing list. You received an email with the thoughts of fellow Fall fans. You emailed a response. An email came back with your email and if you were lucky, responses to your email. Imagine that! Sometimes we even talked about the Fall.

FallNet was probably my first online community. We met up at gigs. I saw friendships, even relationships blossom, all through a shared love of this band, the Fall. Dig around in the 1997 archives, you’ll find me and others discussing one of the great gig moments, forever to be known as the “a cappella Mummy”, at the Zodiac in Oxford.

For me it started with the video clip for “Hit The North”. A map and the only time anyone interesting had paid any attention to my culture-free part of the world. From there it was a short hop to “This Nation’s Saving Grace” and the start of the 30-year obsession. That time we saw them live three times in a week. But then Al McBride went to *every* gig, so far as we could tell. I moved to Australia, resigned to never seeing them again. To my joy they came twice. Still just a hard-working band, bashing out their tunes.

And now he is gone and there will never be anything remotely like it again. But what a legacy we have to listen to, for the rest of our lives. Like others, I hit the back catalogue this week. I’ll be working through the complete Peel Sessions. Like others I was doing OK until one track set me off. It’s “Garden” for me.

Lovely to see that this community is still connecting diverse people with little in common other than their shared love and understanding of how it feels to listen to the Fall. Be kind to each other and keep talking. Such a large and rich body of work, I don’t think we’ll ever run out of thoughts or things to say about it.
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