RIP Mark E Smith (5/3/57-24/1/18)

Joined: May 8 2004, 01:33 PM

Jan 27 2018, 07:56 PM #451

gappy tooth wrote:
Stephen wrote: Hello Fall friends.

Just wanted to say hello and share my thoughts on the devastating news. It’s a lot to take in. It’s genuinely hard to know how to express the sense of loss – The Fall has been such a shaping influence on our lives.

But what a legacy he has left – a lifetime of wonderful music to treasure. I will always be grateful for that.

Take care of yourselves and stay warm.

Stephen
HO lovely to hear from you, Stephen, after all this time, even if it is in sadness.
Yes, great to hear from Stephen and Chach!
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swintax
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Joined: Nov 4 2004, 05:50 PM

Jan 27 2018, 08:09 PM #452

No matter what there was always The Fall.

RIP Mark E Smith.

You'll be sorely missed.
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generalist
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Joined: Feb 14 2004, 10:48 PM

Jan 27 2018, 09:04 PM #453

Not been around these parts for a long time as life is keeping me happy & busy, but given the circumstances I felt I had to pop by. I wrote this a few days ago & wanted to share here.

--

Keep trying to write something about Mark & The Fall & what it all means to me, but failing repeatedly to quite express what I mean. 
The Fall have soundtracked my life since hearing them on Peel & going to a first Fall gig (Newcastle Riverside, 12 June 1986)...
Since then there's been so many, many hours of listening in different houses, in different times, in what seem like different lives even. 
Listening too on such a lot of trains during my years of epic commuting - it immediately makes me think of the line "idea formulated through sheer travel boredom" - oh, yeah, there's been a Fall line for pretty much everything in my life.
Lots of gigs in various Northern towns and cities, driving back and forth across the Pennines via the Snake Pass (more words in my head.... “Walk snake back. Walk snake back. Walk snake pass. Walk snake bank. Go out little tyke. Early morning. Sick hills near Buxton…”); at the Royal Festival Hall when they supported the Magic Band, and staring out from a balcony across the Thames for ages afterwards; in Brighton, where I only found myself thanks to the strange Fall-related Sliding Doors moment that connected me with Mike...
Getting wonderfully entangled in the Fall Forum and meeting all sorts of excellent people from the UK and beyond, many of whom who have become firm Frenz.  
Getting wonderfully untangled from a terrible period of stuckness in life and finding a new way forward. 
How I love the mix of high and low, everyday and fantastic, the always different/always the same in what he did. I loved his phlegmy garbles and thrilling yelps, the sound manipulation through megaphones and tapes, the handwritten sleeves - "have a bleeding guess", the sometimes rackety beats and the "repetition in the music and we're never gonna lose it"; those relentless long tracks like Tempo House, Words of Expectation and Backdrop (my favourites), the heavy bass of Blindness and Dr Bucks Letter, the shiver I get when I hear those opening sounds of Iceland, the blast of Sir William Wray, the sometimes cod reggae, and daft take on dance music (Susan vs Youthclub), which really make me laugh. 
I adore the wonderful cast of real and invented characters and that the writing bristles with a crazy - but so lucid - mix of cultural and social references. I love too that tracks involve lathes and computer cursors and belts and other ordinary, less remarked stuff, but conjure poetry like 'a surfeit of lumber'. 
Also - just the line "I can treat you to visits to coastal pillboxes"...
Just about everything I do creatively and critically is informed by The Fall. I got an education from MES - a lesson that someone from a class position of 'Northern white crap that talks back' could value literature and complicated ideas, that not fitting in could be powerfully, critically non-conformist and that creative 'stick-at-it-ness' was always to be stuck with. 
I can't say exactly what I mean, or feel, but it all means and feels rather a lot. A bit too much in fact.
Thanks to Mark Edward Smith, without whom..... x
Distinguished
Picking crumbs off the floor
Sophisticated
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TheorySwine
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Joined: Nov 21 2011, 10:48 PM

Jan 27 2018, 09:44 PM #454

I've literally just sat back down in front of a cosy fire in a pub, having been for a smoke outside, during which I listened to Iceland. I also played Words Of Expectation earlier, sat on a bus, going from one place to the next. Nothing extraordinary in any of that of course, apart from the music that accompanied me in each moment, which is pretty much what you're describing.
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mreynolds36
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Joined: Jan 27 2018, 07:43 PM

Jan 27 2018, 10:32 PM #455

I’m new to this forum. Thanks to everyone for sharing their memories and gratitude for the music of The Fall and the life of Mark E. Smith. I’m still trying to come to grips with this loss. I’ve been reading so many tributes, obituaries, old interviews. A lifelong Fall fan from the States, I’ve been piling up the cds and albums and listening to stuff I haven’t listened to in years. It all sounds so good, all of it. While I generally agree with most of the tributes that the later albums weren’t the earth-shattering events of the earlier material, I was always excited to hear what MES and bandmates would produce and looked forward to every new Fall release. There was always something, some turn of phrase or riff that burrowed its way into my brain. I’m deeply saddened that experience is now over but also so very grateful to have this massive trove of brilliance to revisit again and again.
 
They never toured the US enough for my money but I did see them many times, the first time in LA at the Roxy in Hollywood. My friend Terry talked his way backstage and then went with the band back to their hotel. I was too shy to follow along but when I talked to him later, my friend told me Mark was warm, hilarious and consumed copious amounts of alcohol—no surprise. I was at the infamous show at Coney Island High when he came out with black eye, berated the band and audience, left the stage during the middle of the show with the band still playing and giving each confused looks about whether he’d come back. I’d driven down to Manhattan from Rochester, NY where I’d just started graduate school. It was a sad spectacle but I knew beforehand what I was getting myself into. I made the same trip with my then-girlfriend, now spouse a few years later when they played The Knitting Factory in downtown New York only a few months after 9/11. I remember the enormous bright lights near the venue shining on the empty pits where the World Trade Center had stood only a few months before. The band were amazing that night.
 
I now live in a small town in Washington state and no one here gets my obsession, despite my willingness to proselytize at the drop of a hat. It’s a lonely place to be a Fall fan but I’m thankful to share these memories with those on the forum who understand what it was all about.
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the fell
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Joined: Jul 2 2010, 09:33 PM

Jan 27 2018, 11:18 PM #456

mreynolds36 wrote: I’m new to this forum. Thanks to everyone for sharing their memories and gratitude for the music of The Fall and the life of Mark E. Smith. I’m still trying to come to grips with this loss. I’ve been reading so many tributes, obituaries, old interviews. A lifelong Fall fan from the States, I’ve been piling up the cds and albums and listening to stuff I haven’t listened to in years. It all sounds so good, all of it. While I generally agree with most of the tributes that the later albums weren’t the earth-shattering events of the earlier material, I was always excited to hear what MES and bandmates would produce and looked forward to every new Fall release. There was always something, some turn of phrase or riff that burrowed its way into my brain. I’m deeply saddened that experience is now over but also so very grateful to have this massive trove of brilliance to revisit again and again.
 
They never toured the US enough for my money but I did see them many times, the first time in LA at the Roxy in Hollywood. My friend Terry talked his way backstage and then went with the band back to their hotel. I was too shy to follow along but when I talked to him later, my friend told me Mark was warm, hilarious and consumed copious amounts of alcohol—no surprise. I was at the infamous show at Coney Island High when he came out with black eye, berated the band and audience, left the stage during the middle of the show with the band still playing and giving each confused looks about whether he’d come back. I’d driven down to Manhattan from Rochester, NY where I’d just started graduate school. It was a sad spectacle but I knew beforehand what I was getting myself into. I made the same trip with my then-girlfriend, now spouse a few years later when they played The Knitting Factory in downtown New York only a few months after 9/11. I remember the enormous bright lights near the venue shining on the empty pits where the World Trade Center had stood only a few months before. The band were amazing that night.
 
I now live in a small town in Washington state and no one here gets my obsession, despite my willingness to proselytize at the drop of a hat. It’s a lonely place to be a Fall fan but I’m thankful to share these memories with those on the forum who understand what it was all about.
Nice post- thanks for sharing.
Nonsense is better than no sense at all- NMN
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mercyc10
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mercyc10
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Joined: Mar 10 2011, 07:50 PM

Jan 27 2018, 11:59 PM #457

Tribute on Match of The Day just now :)
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Divvey
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Divvey
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Joined: Dec 6 2003, 05:56 AM

Jan 28 2018, 12:29 AM #458

Barry Glendening namechecked Mark E Smith at the start of this football weekly podcast

hey ho

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Drjohnrock
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Joined: Sep 6 2003, 02:23 AM

Jan 28 2018, 02:45 AM #459

generalist wrote: Not been around these parts for a long time as life is keeping me happy & busy, but given the circumstances I felt I had to pop by. I wrote this a few days ago & wanted to share here.

--

Keep trying to write something about Mark & The Fall & what it all means to me, but failing repeatedly to quite express what I mean. 
The Fall have soundtracked my life since hearing them on Peel & going to a first Fall gig (Newcastle Riverside, 12 June 1986)...
Since then there's been so many, many hours of listening in different houses, in different times, in what seem like different lives even. 
Listening too on such a lot of trains during my years of epic commuting - it immediately makes me think of the line "idea formulated through sheer travel boredom" - oh, yeah, there's been a Fall line for pretty much everything in my life.
Lots of gigs in various Northern towns and cities, driving back and forth across the Pennines via the Snake Pass (more words in my head.... “Walk snake back. Walk snake back. Walk snake pass. Walk snake bank. Go out little tyke. Early morning. Sick hills near Buxton…”); at the Royal Festival Hall when they supported the Magic Band, and staring out from a balcony across the Thames for ages afterwards; in Brighton, where I only found myself thanks to the strange Fall-related Sliding Doors moment that connected me with Mike...
Getting wonderfully entangled in the Fall Forum and meeting all sorts of excellent people from the UK and beyond, many of whom who have become firm Frenz.  
Getting wonderfully untangled from a terrible period of stuckness in life and finding a new way forward. 
How I love the mix of high and low, everyday and fantastic, the always different/always the same in what he did. I loved his phlegmy garbles and thrilling yelps, the sound manipulation through megaphones and tapes, the handwritten sleeves - "have a bleeding guess", the sometimes rackety beats and the "repetition in the music and we're never gonna lose it"; those relentless long tracks like Tempo House, Words of Expectation and Backdrop (my favourites), the heavy bass of Blindness and Dr Bucks Letter, the shiver I get when I hear those opening sounds of Iceland, the blast of Sir William Wray, the sometimes cod reggae, and daft take on dance music (Susan vs Youthclub), which really make me laugh. 
I adore the wonderful cast of real and invented characters and that the writing bristles with a crazy - but so lucid - mix of cultural and social references. I love too that tracks involve lathes and computer cursors and belts and other ordinary, less remarked stuff, but conjure poetry like 'a surfeit of lumber'. 
Also - just the line "I can treat you to visits to coastal pillboxes"...
Just about everything I do creatively and critically is informed by The Fall. I got an education from MES - a lesson that someone from a class position of 'Northern white crap that talks back' could value literature and complicated ideas, that not fitting in could be powerfully, critically non-conformist and that creative 'stick-at-it-ness' was always to be stuck with. 
I can't say exactly what I mean, or feel, but it all means and feels rather a lot. A bit too much in fact.
Thanks to Mark Edward Smith, without whom..... x
Nice thoughts on how The Fall has fit into your life, generalist.  Thanks for sharing them.  Hope you'll drop in more frequently in the future.
What does tapatalk have in common with Donald Trump? They both suck.
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BikeBloke
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Joined: Dec 7 2003, 01:29 AM

Jan 28 2018, 03:01 AM #460

Despite the sadness of the occasion, it has been nice to see a lot of old faces posting in this thread. I myself haven't been very active on here for a few years. It's nice to see you all, it feels a lot like a group hug at a the time when it's most needed 👍
"Between the ticker and the mind lies an air-block of wind".
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bzfgt
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bzfgt
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Joined: Dec 7 2012, 03:12 AM

Jan 28 2018, 05:09 AM #461

mreynolds36 wrote: I’m new to this forum. Thanks to everyone for sharing their memories and gratitude for the music of The Fall and the life of Mark E. Smith. I’m still trying to come to grips with this loss. I’ve been reading so many tributes, obituaries, old interviews. A lifelong Fall fan from the States, I’ve been piling up the cds and albums and listening to stuff I haven’t listened to in years. It all sounds so good, all of it. While I generally agree with most of the tributes that the later albums weren’t the earth-shattering events of the earlier material, I was always excited to hear what MES and bandmates would produce and looked forward to every new Fall release. There was always something, some turn of phrase or riff that burrowed its way into my brain. I’m deeply saddened that experience is now over but also so very grateful to have this massive trove of brilliance to revisit again and again.
 
They never toured the US enough for my money but I did see them many times, the first time in LA at the Roxy in Hollywood. My friend Terry talked his way backstage and then went with the band back to their hotel. I was too shy to follow along but when I talked to him later, my friend told me Mark was warm, hilarious and consumed copious amounts of alcohol—no surprise. I was at the infamous show at Coney Island High when he came out with black eye, berated the band and audience, left the stage during the middle of the show with the band still playing and giving each confused looks about whether he’d come back. I’d driven down to Manhattan from Rochester, NY where I’d just started graduate school. It was a sad spectacle but I knew beforehand what I was getting myself into. I made the same trip with my then-girlfriend, now spouse a few years later when they played The Knitting Factory in downtown New York only a few months after 9/11. I remember the enormous bright lights near the venue shining on the empty pits where the World Trade Center had stood only a few months before. The band were amazing that night.
 
I now live in a small town in Washington state and no one here gets my obsession, despite my willingness to proselytize at the drop of a hat. It’s a lonely place to be a Fall fan but I’m thankful to share these memories with those on the forum who understand what it was all about.
Welcome aboard, and great first post.
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rossmorgan158
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Joined: Jan 25 2018, 04:24 AM

Jan 28 2018, 08:06 AM #462

I'm guessing the longest gap between studio albums was a year and a half. 

A year and a half plus one day from now... that'll be when it really hits me that it's over.

Since 2002, I could always look forward to new material coming soon. A new album was like getting the most awesome magazine in the mail. A challenging listening that almost always grew on me. I even liked the albums I don't like (Reformation TLC in particular) because... I know Mark could make commercial sounding post punk that's easy on the ears if he wanted to. But he didn't. He released challenging music that sometimes didn't hit me until years later. He was always right.

Listening to New Facts Emerge these past few days has helped. What a fucking way to go out.
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delmore
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delmore
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Joined: Feb 4 2009, 10:07 PM

Jan 28 2018, 08:35 AM #463

Looking around after three days in a hole. What now? I'm thinking the Lyrics book.

On Thursday night someone asked me why I seemed tired. You can't explain.

How about the band members knowing what they knew and unable to talk about it? Wow.
MSGM3... Shombalor!

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http://www.emoticons.online.fr/index.php?cat=Default

The cure was in no pill.
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Joined: Feb 3 2005, 12:43 PM

Jan 28 2018, 08:43 AM #464

delmore wrote: Looking around after three days in a hole. What now? I'm thinking the Lyrics book.

On Thursday night someone asked me why I seemed tired. You can't explain.

How about the band members knowing what they knew and unable to talk about it? Wow.
I sold my Lyrics book, what an idiot.
Winterreise
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RunOut
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RunOut
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Joined: Jul 14 2010, 09:04 AM

Jan 28 2018, 09:01 AM #465

"It is cruel
and blind
and does not
compensate"


RIP MES
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vingt regards
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Joined: Feb 3 2015, 06:24 PM

Jan 28 2018, 12:02 PM #466

Can't believe he's gone.  Love you Mark.
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R. Totale
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Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Jan 28 2018, 12:27 PM #467

BikeBloke wrote: Despite the sadness of the occasion, it has been nice to see a lot of old faces posting in this thread. I myself haven't been very active on here for a few years. It's nice to see you all, it feels a lot like a group hug at a the time when it's most needed 👍
Seconded BikeBloke. We have been a huge and rich community over the years. Thanks to the vision of one man and his collaborators and the reMarkable effect of that vision on us.
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"
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R. Totale
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Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Jan 28 2018, 12:39 PM #468

academichamilton wrote:
QueenPenda wrote:
academichamilton wrote: And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
I was wondering if it might turn out like the Magic Band. And while i haven't gone there with Brix and the Extricated, i couldn't support Greenway/Spurr/Melling enough if they decided to go the way of either John French or Gary Lucas in the future.
Absolutely, The Fall is an idea in a way. That idea can continue. I even think a new vocalist is possible but mostly doing new stuff, a new Fall, another essence of the group - living in the present. Of course it won't ever be the same, nothing is permanent but things can evolve.  ..... There was an interview where he seemed to suggest the possibility of a Fall after him. Things are in a state of flux, and not necessarily heading for termination.
That would be so wrong and horrible. 😧
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"
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R. Totale
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Joined: Jan 21 2004, 11:39 AM

Jan 28 2018, 12:42 PM #469

The whole point of MES was that he would never do that heritage stuff. If he'd ever put the Hex band together and played the album in full I would have been appalled and I'd have known he'd totally lost it. Which he never did.

If the band want to carry on under another name doing new stuff, I'd love to come and check it of course.
"The Gruppe is generally more cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"
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nt071994
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nt071994
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Joined: Jan 27 2018, 02:20 PM

Jan 28 2018, 12:50 PM #470

Hey I'm new to this forum (thanks to the admin for accepting me). I have fond memories of listening to The Fall for the first time (I'm a young fan 23 years old). I started off with Hex Enduction Hour, the track that stood out to me was Fortress/Deer Park, I remember being intrigued yet perplexed at the lyrics. Once I immersed myself in more of their music I got more and more obsessed with them. The lyrics weren't ordinary they were extraordinary like MES himself. They are extremely intelligent and full of literary references. Fast forward a couple of years and I own every studio album and most other releases, I still can't comprehend how prolific The Fall was. 
No matter how many other bands I like, I always keep coming back to The Fall, they are the constant band in my life. I never had the chance to see The Fall live, so I am extremely jealous of those of you who have seen them multiple times over their existence.  
I still can't believe MES has gone, it doesn't feel real. I'm so thankful we had him for as long as we did. He dedicated his life to music, and for that I am thankful and inspired to do the same. There will never ever be another Mark E. Smith, he was one of a kind and his style will never be replicated. He was a true artist, he was always ahead of the curve, constantly reinventing himself and The Fall. He never compromised and was never worried about people's expectations of what they wanted him or The Fall to be. To me, this is one of the reasons why he stayed relevant for 42 years in a rapidly changing world of music.
So rest in peace Mark E. Smith, thank you for all the music you released. Even though I never had the chance to meet you I miss you a lot. (he would probably take the piss out of me for saying that but oh well). It's nice to read all of the stories about Mark from friends/ex-band members/family, it really just shows you how important he was in people's lives.  
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rainmaster
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Joined: Mar 2 2008, 07:44 PM

Jan 28 2018, 12:52 PM #471

R. Totale wrote:
academichamilton wrote:
QueenPenda wrote:
academichamilton wrote: And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
I was wondering if it might turn out like the Magic Band. And while i haven't gone there with Brix and the Extricated, i couldn't support Greenway/Spurr/Melling enough if they decided to go the way of either John French or Gary Lucas in the future.
Absolutely, The Fall is an idea in a way. That idea can continue. I even think a new vocalist is possible but mostly doing new stuff, a new Fall, another essence of the group - living in the present. Of course it won't ever be the same, nothing is permanent but things can evolve.  ..... There was an interview where he seemed to suggest the possibility of a Fall after him. Things are in a state of flux, and not necessarily heading for termination.
That would be so wrong and horrible. 😧
Damn right it would be, contradicts the entire "me and your granny on bongos" ethos.
Grade A triple platinum cunt.
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Ezra_Pound
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Joined: Sep 6 2017, 04:07 PM

Jan 28 2018, 01:01 PM #472

rainmaster wrote:
R. Totale wrote:
academichamilton wrote:
QueenPenda wrote:
academichamilton wrote: And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
I was wondering if it might turn out like the Magic Band. And while i haven't gone there with Brix and the Extricated, i couldn't support Greenway/Spurr/Melling enough if they decided to go the way of either John French or Gary Lucas in the future.
Absolutely, The Fall is an idea in a way. That idea can continue. I even think a new vocalist is possible but mostly doing new stuff, a new Fall, another essence of the group - living in the present. Of course it won't ever be the same, nothing is permanent but things can evolve.  ..... There was an interview where he seemed to suggest the possibility of a Fall after him. Things are in a state of flux, and not necessarily heading for termination.
That would be so wrong and horrible. 😧
Damn right it would be, contradicts the entire "me and your granny on bongos" ethos.
I'm just glad that never happened. My Granny's hands are all fucked up with arthritis. Would've sounded terrible.
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Joined: Aug 7 2013, 06:36 PM

Jan 28 2018, 01:10 PM #473

R. Totale wrote:If the band want to carry on under another name doing new stuff, I'd love to come and check it of course.
Well, Keiron and Dave played together before they joined The Fall, no reason why they wouldn't continue to do so but I guess time will tell. I know there's been discussions of some level of future planning by MES and the group but I can't imagine they'll be in much mood to think about it right now.
http://hippriestess.tumblr.com/

Blog revived for MES tribute - "Fantastic Life: The 20 Greatest Fall Songs In No Order Whatsoever."
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Joined: Nov 25 2012, 07:22 PM

Jan 28 2018, 01:21 PM #474

rainmaster wrote:
R. Totale wrote:
academichamilton wrote:
QueenPenda wrote:
academichamilton wrote: And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
I was wondering if it might turn out like the Magic Band. And while i haven't gone there with Brix and the Extricated, i couldn't support Greenway/Spurr/Melling enough if they decided to go the way of either John French or Gary Lucas in the future.
Absolutely, The Fall is an idea in a way. That idea can continue. I even think a new vocalist is possible but mostly doing new stuff, a new Fall, another essence of the group - living in the present. Of course it won't ever be the same, nothing is permanent but things can evolve.  ..... There was an interview where he seemed to suggest the possibility of a Fall after him. Things are in a state of flux, and not necessarily heading for termination.
That would be so wrong and horrible. 😧
Damn right it would be, contradicts the entire "me and your granny on bongos" ethos.
Don't really understand that mentality. I think Smith would want them to carry on. Not as as heritage band but carrying on as is. I think they can call themselves The Fall because they are that. They don't cease to be because Mark has died. He hated Brix's outfit anyway so that will or won't go on as totally separate. And sod me and your granny on bongos - that is just some misquoted cliche. For me it would depend on what Mark himself indicated might happen when it was clear he did not have long left, if he said anything at all of course.
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johncoan
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Joined: Jun 18 2004, 11:12 PM

Jan 28 2018, 02:42 PM #475

but they're not, are they? they're really not
be-boxed focken clown
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