RIP Mark E Smith (5/3/57-24/1/18)

dannyno
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dannyno
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Jan 26 2018, 09:21 AM #351

It does, of course.

Like lots of MES quotes, you have to take it in a broader context. Here we have particular circumstances, and he's speaking aggressively and self defensively.

But he spoke highly on many occasions of his group - Scanlon and Hanley of course but also the final group, together in essence for a decade.

Dan
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Jan 26 2018, 09:28 AM #352

And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
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GuyBoden
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Jan 26 2018, 09:33 AM #353

So long and thanks for all the great music...............................................................................................
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Jan 26 2018, 09:33 AM #354

Starsky-Tandoori wrote: His lyrics should be kept at Cecil Sharp House, forever, because tons of it is folk, really. Those words should be held safe, and not lost. 
Yes!
"... a shiftless person, roving and magotie-headed, and sometimes little better than crased."
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tempertantrum
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Joined: Mar 16 2015, 03:43 PM

Jan 26 2018, 09:37 AM #355

dannyno wrote: It does, of course.

Like lots of MES quotes, you have to take it in a broader context. Here we have particular circumstances, and he's speaking aggressively and self defensively.

But he spoke highly on many occasions of his group - Scanlon and Hanley of course but also the final group, together in essence for a decade.

Dan
To clarify, I didn't mean it with regards to Mark E Smith saying it, I meant the way it's received and generally interpreted. There is a widespread misconception that The Fall is (I can't bring myself to write "was") MES and whoever was hanging around that day, and "granny on bongos" plays into it.
We are not adults, we are crusty mystics
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QueenPenda
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Joined: Jan 24 2018, 11:56 PM

Jan 26 2018, 09:53 AM #356

academichamilton wrote: And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
I was wondering if it might turn out like the Magic Band. And while i haven't gone there with Brix and the Extricated, i couldn't support Greenway/Spurr/Melling enough if they decided to go the way of either John French or Gary Lucas in the future.
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pad
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pad
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Jan 26 2018, 09:59 AM #357

I'm planning a Fall celebration event in Coventry. Assume these will start to happen all over the place, is it worth a separate thread for celebration events? 
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Jan 26 2018, 10:07 AM #358

QueenPenda wrote:
academichamilton wrote: And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
I was wondering if it might turn out like the Magic Band. And while i haven't gone there with Brix and the Extricated, i couldn't support Greenway/Spurr/Melling enough if they decided to go the way of either John French or Gary Lucas in the future.
Absolutely, The Fall is an idea in a way. That idea can continue. I even think a new vocalist is possible but mostly doing new stuff, a new Fall, another essence of the group - living in the present. Of course it won't ever be the same, nothing is permanent but things can evolve. I hope, with time, Brix et al carry on too and with renewed vigour. Or it all may just stop.

There was a post earlier suggesting Smith might have moved to stop any posthumous releases. I'd be surprised because they could represent income for the current group. There was an interview where he seemed to suggest the possibility of a Fall after him. Things are in a state of flux, and not necessarily heading for termination.
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Dktr Skagra
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Joined: Jan 10 2004, 12:43 AM

Jan 26 2018, 11:48 AM #359

Ten Fall landmarks from my life…
  1. 1986, at school. Hearing U.S. 80’s – 90’s on the 6th Form ghetto blaster (it played LPs in an upright position!) and immediately feeling my life change forever.
  2. 1987, at Wolves Poly (Dudley site). Being harangued in the student union by a chap who’d seen The Fall supporting U2 about how terrible they were, he was really angry and upset, and seemed to think I personally had something to do with it. I laughed.
  3. Waiting in Wimpy in Dudley, February 1987, for the copies of The Frenz Experiment to arrive in the adjacent HMV with my fellow Fall-freak David. We kept going over all morning to check. Got so distracted I put sugar on my chips. 
  4. Meeting Brix outside Birmingham Hummingbird, before their gig in March 1988. She was standing in the door of the Fall tour bus, I got her autograph. 
  5. Kandi Klub, Bristol Bierkeller. The DJ stopped the music – stopped the music! – to harangue me about always requesting The Fall, who were according to him ‘a bunch of dinosaurs.’ In 1993…
  6. Meeting Mark E. Smith in the Seven Stars before their Bristol Fleece and Firkin gig in December 1999.
  7. My 2013 Fall Odyssey, 3 gigs on 3 consecutive nights in May: Cardiff, Bristol, then Fal(l)mouth. The latter was one of the best Fall gigs I have ever attended.
  8. Having to leave the February 2017 Cardiff Tramshed gig early to get the last train back to Bristol. Little did I know at the time I would never see them again.
  9. That Bristol Fiddlers gig, November 2017. The anticipation. The speculation. The devastation. The beginning of the end. 
  10. Now, today. Realising that this is not the end, the music will be there forever, and although he is dead and gone, his vibrations will live on.
 
 Dktr S
 
 
 
Xorxes grilasperating orsks!!!
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Joined: Mar 3 2009, 02:11 PM

Jan 26 2018, 12:11 PM #360

I like that ...
My brain is the most complex thing in the Universe. Hiccup said so.

"for the LOLZ!!!!"

'false bravado won't hide the cracks'
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otto
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Joined: Sep 7 2008, 11:26 PM

Jan 26 2018, 12:16 PM #361

Funeral bells from the nearby church were ringing this morning as i was reading this...then i took a walk through the abandoned tile factory behind my house, read a few pages from Renegade in my 'office'. Still can't bring myself to weep...don't know what's wrong with me.

Off for a three days Fall + booze binge, hope that will help.
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Joined: Feb 3 2005, 12:43 PM

Jan 26 2018, 12:20 PM #362

Dktr Skagra wrote: Ten Fall landmarks from my life…
  1. 1986, at school. Hearing U.S. 80’s – 90’s on the 6th Form ghetto blaster (it played LPs in an upright position!) and immediately feeling my life change forever.
 
 
 
:)

 Somewhere, I still have a school excercise book from 1986 in which I wrote down during various lessons, what I thought the lyrics to all the tracks on Bend Sinister were. I had just bought it, my first The Fall LP, and was pretty obsessed with it.


i
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Buy Kurious
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Joined: Mar 24 2006, 07:48 PM

Jan 26 2018, 12:35 PM #363

Starsky-Tandoori wrote: I've been watching Glitter Freeze on repeat, it's not The Fall, but it's MES on vocals and Albarn on 'bongos' .... so, maybe it is. When this was on, eight years ago now, we reveled in it. Remember? His ownership of the stage, he the power, everyone else working around him. And the entrance, like a King ... and then saunter off at the end. Great. 

 



I remember that so clearly. How excited we were waiting for him to come on, not sure if he would or not, and then when he did how blown away we all were by how great he was. How he commanded that stage, completely unphased by the size of the crowd. Just perfect. He later said in an interview that he saw Lou Reed backstage waiting to go on and MES said he just bowed to Lou. Pure class.
"We really made a groovy team but now alone I dream dream dream dream dream..."

RIP EC
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DeusErac
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Joined: Jun 21 2007, 01:24 PM

Jan 26 2018, 12:46 PM #364

Thinking of you all, friends, through hard days.

I was alone in a hotel room in Indiana when I got the news, so it was helpful to know there was a place I could go where others understood the import of what had happened.

I process things by writing about them (duh), so I sat in bed that night and typed out some thoughts with my thumbs on my phone, before I went to sleep, which did not come easy.

They're here, if you'd like to read them: https://jericsmith.com/2018/01/24/and-t ... 1957-2018/ . . . and if not, that's good, too.

Miss you bunch, though I still think a flounce off to get one's head in order every now and again can be a good thing in terms of breaking habitual behaviors. As it turned out, Deus Fille had some drama in her life that required some extra parental love and attention over the past few weeks, so it was apt for me to have cleared the mental slate a bit before that happened.

And then this.

Xoxo . . .
All we ever wanted was sanitary plumbing, straight roads, and a sense of belonging to a community of interest that could reasonably call itself civilized. (Charles Hayward)

jericsmith.com
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Joined: Feb 3 2005, 12:43 PM

Jan 26 2018, 12:50 PM #365

Buy Kurious wrote:
Starsky-Tandoori wrote: I've been watching Glitter Freeze on repeat, it's not The Fall, but it's MES on vocals and Albarn on 'bongos' .... so, maybe it is. When this was on, eight years ago now, we reveled in it. Remember? His ownership of the stage, he the power, everyone else working around him. And the entrance, like a King ... and then saunter off at the end. Great. 

 



I remember that so clearly. How excited we were waiting for him to come on, not sure if he would or not, and then when he did how blown away we all were by how great he was. How he commanded that stage, completely unphased by the size of the crowd. Just perfect. He later said in an interview that he saw Lou Reed backstage waiting to go on and MES said he just bowed to Lou. Pure class.
Hello Buy

I had forgotten about Gorillaz until today, but now recall being rather rude and filled with dread at the time, about him working with Albarn.

I still don’t like Albarn, but the above is really good...
Last edited by Mark E Smith Made Me Cry on Jan 26 2018, 12:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Jan 26 2018, 12:53 PM #366

academichamilton wrote:
QueenPenda wrote:
academichamilton wrote: And also we will now find out if there is a Fall without him. There is a pretty much universal assumption The Fall will now cease to be. Most likely that is correct but it is not impossible to imagine scenarios where that may not be the whole story.
I was wondering if it might turn out like the Magic Band. And while i haven't gone there with Brix and the Extricated, i couldn't support Greenway/Spurr/Melling enough if they decided to go the way of either John French or Gary Lucas in the future.
Absolutely, The Fall is an idea in a way. That idea can continue. I even think a new vocalist is possible but mostly doing new stuff, a new Fall, another essence of the group - living in the present. Of course it won't ever be the same, nothing is permanent but things can evolve. I hope, with time, Brix et al carry on too and with renewed vigour. Or it all may just stop.

There was a post earlier suggesting Smith might have moved to stop any posthumous releases. I'd be surprised because they could represent income for the current group. There was an interview where he seemed to suggest the possibility of a Fall after him. Things are in a state of flux, and not necessarily heading for termination.
I think it's more important than ever that Brix et al continue. They carry the torch in fine style.
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Jan 26 2018, 01:08 PM #367

I dare say, at some point, we'll hear if there was contingency planning and what shape that takes for us as fans. I hope there are some unheard things to hear but I'd hate to see The Fall go through the barrel-scraping that people like Jimi Hendrix or Miles Davis have endured. They're still "finding" "new" Hendrix material and he's coming up for 50 years gone. No thanks.
http://hippriestess.tumblr.com/

Blog revived for MES tribute - "Fantastic Life: The 20 Greatest Fall Songs In No Order Whatsoever."
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Buy Kurious
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Joined: Mar 24 2006, 07:48 PM

Jan 26 2018, 01:23 PM #368

Mark E Smith Made Me Cry wrote:Hello Buy

I had forgotten about Gorillaz until today, but now recall being rather rude and filled with dread at the time, about him working with Albarn.

I still don’t like Albarn, but the above is really good...
Hello, it's good to see you again, though wish it was under happier circumstances.
I never much liked Gorillaz/Albarn either. I bought that album just for "Glitter Freeze" and doubt I listened to the rest more than once.
Every non-Fall thing he appeared on sounded superb, not just because he was on it, but also because he somehow almost always managed make the music itself sound incredible, I think. The Clint Boon, Inch, Elastica, Mutation, etc collaborations all sounded Fall-like, didn't they?
"We really made a groovy team but now alone I dream dream dream dream dream..."

RIP EC
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mercyc10
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Jan 26 2018, 01:30 PM #369

I’d forgotten about Marks portrayal of Jesus in Ideal, or was it really a portrayal!

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Joined: Aug 19 2007, 12:42 AM

Jan 26 2018, 01:41 PM #370

It makes me so sad yet so happy to see the love and affection shown for MES.
Wunderwaffe is go!

"Chuck a black cat into four feet of snow and see what happens on my return"

V2086

"Crisis,what crisis?"
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Jan 26 2018, 01:43 PM #371

Buy Kurious wrote:
Mark E Smith Made Me Cry wrote:Hello Buy

I had forgotten about Gorillaz until today, but now recall being rather rude and filled with dread at the time, about him working with Albarn.

I still don’t like Albarn, but the above is really good...
Hello, it's good to see you again, though wish it was under happier circumstances.
I never much liked Gorillaz/Albarn either. I bought that album just for "Glitter Freeze" and doubt I listened to the rest more than once.
Every non-Fall thing he appeared on sounded superb, not just because he was on it, but also because he somehow almost always managed make the music itself sound incredible, I think. The Clint Boon, Inch, Elastica, Mutation, etc collaborations all sounded Fall-like, didn't they?
Yeah, Inspiral Carpets thing too.

My brain is the most complex thing in the Universe. Hiccup said so.

"for the LOLZ!!!!"

'false bravado won't hide the cracks'
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Joined: Feb 3 2005, 12:43 PM

Jan 26 2018, 02:09 PM #372

Starsky-Tandoori wrote:
Buy Kurious wrote:
Mark E Smith Made Me Cry wrote:Hello Buy

I had forgotten about Gorillaz until today, but now recall being rather rude and filled with dread at the time, about him working with Albarn.

I still don’t like Albarn, but the above is really good...
Hello, it's good to see you again, though wish it was under happier circumstances.
I never much liked Gorillaz/Albarn either. I bought that album just for "Glitter Freeze" and doubt I listened to the rest more than once.
Every non-Fall thing he appeared on sounded superb, not just because he was on it, but also because he somehow almost always managed make the music itself sound incredible, I think. The Clint Boon, Inch, Elastica, Mutation, etc collaborations all sounded Fall-like, didn't they?
Yeah, Inspiral Carpets thing too.

It’s good to see so many people’s familiar names again. Some grim times were made better for when I was regularly on or reading the forum, for which I was and am more grateful than words ever said, or can say now.

I’m so very sorry to read about EC. 

_______


Yes, the MES non-Fall stuff was wonderful. I’m looking forward to putting the Von Südenfed album on soonish. I couldn’t listen to anything until the small hours of this morning, but have binged since then, a melancholy but electrified listen to every album from Frenz to The Unutterable, so far.
Winterreise
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chrisgoodhead
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Joined: Oct 31 2003, 09:14 AM

Jan 26 2018, 03:00 PM #373

 I got a computer in 2002 and set it up in the spare bedroom that was to become Jean's room. As a baby she used to like to hear the story of how the rain would land on the roof of the house opposite, run down the slates and into the gutter, run along the gutter and down the pipe and down down down it goes into the drain. I ran a cable from the phone line downstairs into the back of the computer and three or four days later found the button and the settings that allowed connection to something called "the Internet". 


My first internet search was "The Fall" and my first email - to anybody ever - was to John Peel about The Fall. 

I was scared of the forum at first. I'd never met anybody else who liked The Fall and it was quite exciting. One of my first posts was about how to hear the original version of Country on the Click. Conway replied with a thinly veiled reference to downloading it over "soulseek". I don't know what Soul Seek is, I replied. Conway shot back with "Woah! Have you got a license to drive that computer?" I looked around the room for a computer license but couldn't find one. No surprise really. I had got the computer out of a skip. 

Actually I am misremembering slightly. For about a year before I found that computer in a skip I had been spending time in the library going online. You were allowed 2 hours and - since I was a carer often working evenings and nights I'd have time to kill during the day. I'd spend that entire 2 hours on The Fall forum before emerging from the library, blinking in the sun. 

For the first time in my life I was invited to join a group; the Frenz board. The Internet was young. None of the pitfalls, problems or piss pots that are now well recognised had been established. It was fun. A small group of Frenz. People, not personas. 

When I met the Frenz in a pub in York they were all each absolutely nothing like I had imagined. In a way I was disappointed but I later learned that this realisation is something to learn about the human condition. Outwardly, people look and act in one way - they serve behind the bar, drive buses, sell carpets, pass you in the street, eat alone and look out of the window at people on the drizzly street. But inwardly - such rich thoughts, loves, lives and passions. Such fire. Wonderful, really. A wonderful realisation. It blew my mind wide open and it's never shut since. A true understanding of diversity, I think. 

Dave was drunk and a bit scary, Mark got thrown out of the gig immediately for sort of knocking loads of people over like skittles, Dave Scott was softly spoken and kind and Frenzbob was wearing a leather jacket and liked me even though I don't think I said anything. Michael wore Fall badges, gave us all CDs and ate at Yummy Chicken, of all places, like it was normal. 

I have met many more Fall fans since and I always think how their outward appearances are at odds with their inner lives. It's as well to remember that, I think. 

A person, Mark E Smith, got other people to do things with instruments. Other people came to watch it. They bought records so they could hear it at home. Another person invented the Internet. Those other people used it to communicate with each other. Then they met each other. Then some of them continued to meet each other while others didn't. Random chaos re-ordered in retrospect. This is how we make sense of our lives and the world we live in. 

RIP Mark E Smith.
It is idle to think that things in this life will last for ever in one state.
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Joined: Mar 3 2009, 02:11 PM

Jan 26 2018, 03:09 PM #374

That's a lovely bit of writing. 

I can't stop crying now, the enormity of it all, I just watched the Glitter Freeze performance again, the vitality of him there. It tipped me over. This time last year me and Richard were in a state of high excitement, planning our meet up for the gig at Concorde 2. That whole world has gone, my Smiths both gone. 
My brain is the most complex thing in the Universe. Hiccup said so.

"for the LOLZ!!!!"

'false bravado won't hide the cracks'
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Joined: Nov 25 2012, 07:22 PM

Jan 26 2018, 03:18 PM #375

Got this nagging, bad feeling things could have been a bit different somehow. Mark's decline was quite swift in the end. So much abuse to his body over the years. Yet those last gigs from his wheelchair, suddenly clearer, so much more articulate. Ach, well, useless speculating now. 
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