guitar time

guitar time

bzfgt
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bzfgt
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Aug 25 2015, 11:27 AM #1

I have an Epiphone Les Paul but I want a single coil axe, and I think a telecaster with three pickups, like a Mexican "Nashville Deluxe," or a Stratocaster. Can I get by with the Mexican tele playing your rock and roll styles? I also want to learn some country guitar for which I know this is good.


Any other ideas for what I should get? I do hanker for something twangier than the Epiphone, I played a couple Modern Player teles in the music store and they seemed nice although I guess they are held together with chewing gum chewed by Chinese workers and all that sort of thing. But only 400 dollars new, vs. 6 for the Nashville style.
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marvell78
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Aug 25 2015, 05:45 PM #2

i would go with G and L guitars before fender. i think they are much better. however, avoid the cheaper 'Tribute Series'

i prefer single coil too. i have played those nashville telecasters. i didnt think they were much good. any tele player will rely most of the time on the bridge pick up alone. i have an old usa 70s telecaster and i dont think that i have used anything but the bridge pick up for the last year

if you like single coil then i would either get a g and l asat tele or a usa standard telecaster (assuming you cant afford the more expensive usa custom or deluxe ones).

ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-L-ASAT-Classi ... 2a56d66019

i would avoid the made in mexico fender gtrs like the plague. they are dreadful. the second hand japanese ones are much better

one good option a lot of people dont often take: i bought a squier affinitiy telecaster. i tired a lot of different ones but this felt good, the body and fretboard were great. then i waited until i came across a second hand usa deluxe tele bridge pick up and put that in. i gave it to M78 jnr and he gets a great sound out of it (he likes Libertines, Clash)

would add that you can ramp up the sound (more in the direction of the les paul) using good pedals. i use an RB booster which heavies up the sound but doesnt distort the signal.

in a chain with the old tele i use: tuner/forrest green compressor/RB booster/boss ce 2 chorus/wampler faux spring reverb

with diff combinations of those effects you could be using a half a dozen diff gtrs. great range of sounds

flex is agtr player. he would have good advice for you.
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bzfgt
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bzfgt
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Aug 25 2015, 07:02 PM #3

Thanks, Marvell. I have been thinking about the G&L too, I don't know enough about them yet to know what's considered good. I think you're the first person I've heard diss the Mexican teles, though. I know the Modern Player (one step down from the Mexican) doesn't get much love, again though I liked the two I played. But I haven't been playing that long and don't trust my own judgment, either....


I have heard good things about the Japanese "Tokai Breezysound," is that the one you mean?
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bzfgt
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bzfgt
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Aug 25 2015, 07:03 PM #4

I am pretty sure I want three pickups though...
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Joined: Jun 20 2009, 02:14 AM

Aug 25 2015, 11:32 PM #5

marvell78 @ Aug 25 2015, 10:45 AM wrote:
flex is agtr player. he would have good advice for you.
Thanks, Marvell. B)

I don't know about G & L's, never having played one, but Marvell wouldn't steer you wrong. I definitely agree with him about Squier 'Affinity' Teles, I have one too. I lucked out there: the pickups that came with it didn't need replacing, rare for Squier.

And I also have an Affinity Strat. The Tele only needed new tuning pegs, Squier always uses cheap ones, or at least the Chinese-made ones do. There are older Squiers made in Indonesia that used better ones. The Strat needed new tuners and new pickups, so you might want something fancier than Squier if you don't want to get into modifications. Marvell is 100% right about Mexican-made Fenders, IMO: every one I've every played or owned has had problems. Yes, it's nice to get the actual Fender logo on something, but if it's unplayable, what is point? He used the word 'dreadful,' that describes them well.

"When it comes to guitar sounds, there's really only 2 choices: Gibson or Fender." - Keef Richards.

Or, to put it another way: double-coils or single-coils. G and L and Squier are 'of Fender,' Epiphone is 'of Gibson.' Double-coils are less noisy and are 'beefier,' but if you want to cut through the din of sidemen like a sword through margarine, single-coils are the way to go. If you want to play solos AND rhythm parts, I'd recommend a Tele first, they seem to be the most 'all-purpose' guitar. Graham Coxon managed to get almost all his wide variety of tones out of a Tele, for example: they are very versatile. If just soloing is your game, Strats are probably better. Think of Garcia's tone on "Europe '72." He was using a Strat at that time.

Also, Marvell has a good point about boxes: a single coil affair like a Tele will respond well to overdrives, etc., should it be a little too twangy for you.
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bzfgt
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Aug 26 2015, 01:14 AM #6

Cool, thanks. I'll have to do more research, I've heard lots of good things about the Deluxe Nashville. We shall see. I do want to play rhythm although I play a lot of solos. Ideally I should probably make sure I can play a few guitars before I buy but ebay beckons when I look for bargains...
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Joined: Jun 20 2009, 02:14 AM

Aug 26 2015, 01:26 AM #7

:) Keep us posted on what you get...
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bzfgt
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Aug 26 2015, 01:39 AM #8

I will do so.
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delmore
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Aug 26 2015, 03:17 AM #9

If you've got any pawnshop type places in your town I'd try them too. They can have good instruments at affordable prices. Also in my experience there's a lot of variation within brands eg you could try two seemingly similar Teles and they might play or sound quite different from each other. Plus, trying them out in the shops can be fun (if they don't have those snotty sales kids who want to show off their chops).
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Aug 26 2015, 03:31 AM #10

delmore @ Aug 25 2015, 08:17 PM wrote: a lot of variation within brands eg you could try two seemingly similar Teles and they might play or sound quite different from each other.
True.
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delmore
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Aug 26 2015, 03:36 AM #11

And you'd be amazed at how many children get vintage 1959 Les Pauls (for example) for Christmas and decide they don't want them. ;)
MSGM3... Shombalor!

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Aug 26 2015, 03:44 AM #12

"The hobbyists, they all have Gear
the rest of us, we all have fear
Of everything breaking
in the middle of your favorite
song..."
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marvell78
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Aug 26 2015, 12:08 PM #13

and we are forgetting fender jaguars

though you want three pickups, if you are not going toget a strat, i would still think that a good two pick up gtr would be better. there is no way that those nashville gtrs are better than a good standard/deluxe strat or tele (how many people do you ever see playing them)
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bzfgt
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Aug 29 2015, 04:46 AM #14

I have in one sense seen a good amount of people playing the Nashville Deluxe Fender, meaning basically I have looked around on the internet and people say they have them. But I have only been playing electric guitar since Xmas and didn't use to notice what people played, so I do not know.

This is agonizing because I was pretty convinced I wanted one and you guys are saying they are terrible! And Delmore's right, I went and played a bunch of guitars the other day and there is a lot of variation within guitars of the same model. I played two teles that were both the same kind (the dreaded Chinese Modern Player, they seemed great to me but they're not well regarded!) and one was about twice the weight of the other, even.

Anyway I have been watching video lessons that this guy sells http://www.gratefulguitarlessons.com

Mostly Jerry Garcia stuff (a little Bob Weir too). The lessons are great and I can rip off a pretty mean lead on songs like Sugaree and Franklins Tower now. He is a great player and he plays a Nashville. I still love my Les Paul but I have been really yearning for a single coil guitar to add to my palette, maybe it's a "grass is always greener" thing but right now I relate more to the single coil sound in fact, and no doubt this is partly because of all the Jerry stuff I play, but also I've always loved players like Roy Nichols (Merle Haggard's guitar player) and really want to play more country style stuff. It just happened that when I got my first electric last Winter I was listening to a lot of Hawkwind and Allmann Brothers, and I love the more rounded Les Paul tones for sure, and I was leaning in that direction at that moment in time. The only answer is to have one of each, of course.

Anyway I really love the sound the Grateful Lessons guy gets out of his guitar, it's not super-Telecastered out because of the 3rd pickup (he plays in the middle on all the Jerry lessons) but it would also be nice to be able to get that sound with the bridge pickup. That's why I want a three-spot. I played a Strat that blew me away at the Guitar Center last week too and would be glad to go that way, but if I did I know someday I'd want a Tele too so I could get the hardcore Bakersfield twang. So the ultimate solution would be a Tele that can sound like a strat, if I had that I could lay off acquiring guitars for, I hope, a long time. Not that I wouldn't hunger after other guitars, that seems inevitable, but I need to be frugal.

Anyhow one problem is that if I look for deals on Ebay, that's all stuff I can't play ahead of time so I would have to make sure I got a really good deal, especially if I decided to flip it and replace it if I didn't love what I got.

I'm intrigued by the G&L, I had never heard of them until I think literally earlier in the day when you mentioned them, Marvell, but I had been furiously Googling about them much of that afternoon. I wonder, are there tiers with those like there are with Telecasters and Strats, ones that are made in different countries, etc.? I'd be tempted to take a flyer on one if 1. it was a really good deal on the internet and 2. I knew it was a well regarded model. My hope is that, since they are less famous than the Fenders, they might fly under the radar a little, and that's why I see so many seemingly good deals on them. Of course, things rarely (if ever) work that way, and it's probably more likely that the cheap ones are inferior product. It is hard when you are as ignorant of the hardware as I am and don't really know what you're buying, and I have to take other people's word for things and they don't all agree with each other! I have to say that the GGL guy recommends the Nashville and when I googled about them I found much praise for them on the internet, they are much better liked than the Chinese ones and are not ridiculously expensive to get. And I do really dig the sound GGL gets out of his...

As far as ease of playing, the Chinese models I played were smooth and actually much easier to play than my Les Paul*, so if I went up a model I'd be optimistic about that--again, though, the variation in individual guitars makes any internet purchase a parlous enterprise.

*I left the guitar store thinking I had the crappiest guitar in the world, every one I played seemed way better than mine! Finally out of desperation I picked up a Squier Stratocaster and I have to say that was HORRIBLE, so I am very leery of Squiers despite FL's recommendation (small sample size but hard to combat a bias like that). But then I went home and picked up my guitar and it was wonderful, like it knew I'd been shopping around and wanted to put its best foot forward.
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Joined: Jun 20 2009, 02:14 AM

Aug 29 2015, 05:14 AM #15

I did say that 99 out of 100 Squiers have bad tuners/pickups, so unless it was the 'feel' you didn't like, I stand by what I said. If it was the tone you didn't like, that's no surprise. What I like about Squiers (other than that I can afford them) is that they seem to use good necks and bodies, but yes, their hardware is crap (usually.)
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bzfgt
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Aug 29 2015, 06:30 AM #16

flickeringlexicon @ Aug 28 2015, 09:14 PM wrote: I did say that 99 out of 100 Squiers have bad tuners/pickups, so unless it was the 'feel' you didn't like, I stand by what I said. If it was the tone you didn't like, that's no surprise. What I like about Squiers (other than that I can afford them) is that they seem to use good necks and bodies, but yes, their hardware is crap (usually.)
Yes it was both the sound and feel and primarily the feel since that could bias my interpretation of the sound. That thing played like pure crap (keeping in mind I had just played about 8 to 12 guitars before it, and some of them were quite expensive, although not all of them were, so however that would affect things etc.). I felt like it was trying to bite my fingers. I would not buy that guitar for 90 bucks or whatever it was (it seemed to be on some kind of discount rack, anyway it was a rack of all Squiers so it may have just been the Squier rack).

I'm not contesting your opinion though, maybe there are good playing ones but this was most definitely not one.

(this has nothing to do with the above) I used to hate it but at this point in my playing I dig the extra room on a Fender fretboard. I get things off cleaner, it seems, with more room for my clutzy fingers to maneuver. It sucks, I am at a bad point financially for at least the next month but I am dying to get a Fender (or that which is Fenderlich).
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Joined: Jun 20 2009, 02:14 AM

Aug 29 2015, 03:26 PM #17

bzfgt @ Aug 28 2015, 11:30 PM wrote:
flickeringlexicon @ Aug 28 2015, 09:14 PM wrote: I did say that 99 out of 100 Squiers have bad tuners/pickups, so unless it was the 'feel' you didn't like, I stand by what I said. If it was the tone you didn't like, that's no surprise. What I like about Squiers (other than that I can afford them) is that they seem to use good necks and bodies, but yes, their hardware is crap (usually.)
Yes it was both the sound and feel and primarily the feel since that could bias my interpretation of the sound. That thing played like pure crap (keeping in mind I had just played about 8 to 12 guitars before it, and some of them were quite expensive, although not all of them were, so however that would affect things etc.). I felt like it was trying to bite my fingers. I would not buy that guitar for 90 bucks or whatever it was (it seemed to be on some kind of discount rack, anyway it was a rack of all Squiers so it may have just been the Squier rack).

I'm not contesting your opinion though, maybe there are good playing ones but this was most definitely not one.

(this has nothing to do with the above) I used to hate it but at this point in my playing I dig the extra room on a Fender fretboard. I get things off cleaner, it seems, with more room for my clutzy fingers to maneuver. It sucks, I am at a bad point financially for at least the next month but I am dying to get a Fender (or that which is Fenderlich).
Well, since the only actual Fender™ I ever owned was a hideously expensive Made-In-Mexico one that could not be made playable no matter how many modifications were done to it, and eventually had to be written off, I can't really help you there: just avoid the Mexican ones if poss.
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misterrogers
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Aug 30 2015, 09:17 AM #18

flickeringlexicon @ Aug 30 2015, 03:26 AM wrote:
bzfgt @ Aug 28 2015, 11:30 PM wrote:
flickeringlexicon @ Aug 28 2015, 09:14 PM wrote: I did say that 99 out of 100 Squiers have bad tuners/pickups, so unless it was the 'feel' you didn't like, I stand by what I said. If it was the tone you didn't like, that's no surprise. What I like about Squiers (other than that I can afford them) is that they seem to use good necks and bodies, but yes, their hardware is crap (usually.)
Yes it was both the sound and feel and primarily the feel since that could bias my interpretation of the sound. That thing played like pure crap (keeping in mind I had just played about 8 to 12 guitars before it, and some of them were quite expensive, although not all of them were, so however that would affect things etc.). I felt like it was trying to bite my fingers. I would not buy that guitar for 90 bucks or whatever it was (it seemed to be on some kind of discount rack, anyway it was a rack of all Squiers so it may have just been the Squier rack).

I'm not contesting your opinion though, maybe there are good playing ones but this was most definitely not one.

(this has nothing to do with the above) I used to hate it but at this point in my playing I dig the extra room on a Fender fretboard. I get things off cleaner, it seems, with more room for my clutzy fingers to maneuver. It sucks, I am at a bad point financially for at least the next month but I am dying to get a Fender (or that which is Fenderlich).
Well, since the only actual Fender™ I ever owned was a hideously expensive Made-In-Mexico one that could not be made playable no matter how many modifications were done to it, and eventually had to be written off, I can't really help you there: just avoid the Mexican ones if poss.
My favorite guitar currently is a unique mash up of a jaguar and jazz master mini made by squire that I had a full sized strat neck put on . Cost me a few hundred to do so (since it was a full sized neck on the mini ) but now it's the best whammy gtr I've ever had, great tuning intonation and tone quality/accuracy even with really heavy bar use.
Now on this jagmaster it was the neck (smaller scale nonetheless) that had to go. It was like a freaking Emory board.. I agree that most squires have better necks than this mini. The finish was unbearable it was almost gritty...
I agree with the notion of watching your pawn shops. Need to really check them out. For me the best value has always been there too.
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marvell78
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Aug 31 2015, 01:52 PM #19

Ebay and second hand shops for me too. Have never bought a new gtr in my life.

There are tiers. The Tribute series is cheaper.

First G and L i had came froma shop in Dallas that use Ebay (very good about pricing/customs etc). My current G and L is second hand. it cost me 600 euro from a guy locally.

I played a gtr a couple of years ago. An amazing sound. But too expensive. it was called a Mosrite. If I could afford one of them I would get one. And in abizarre twist, on that day, I eneded up playing a few songs, using the Mosrite with a guy from The Barron Knights an old 60s band who used to do parodies of current hits. I didnt realise that was who he was until we had finished and he had left the shop. Raging with the owner that he hadnt told me who th eguy was. Childhood hero!
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bzfgt
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Aug 31 2015, 05:33 PM #20

Are the Tribute ones decent guitars, as far as you know? Are they to be avoided?
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marvell78
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Aug 31 2015, 09:07 PM #21

i wouldnt get one. if you want a good gtr you have to pay for it really. though you can get lucky with second hand ones.

i work on the principle that if the gtr feels good to play then i would consider. that is, provided the sound is reasonable enough , you can make up the difference on fx and amp.

where you get caught out is when you do gigs and proper recording. the minute you really jack up the volume you begin to hear, in part, the price! i wouldnt be in the camp that thinks that even gigs and recording can be ok with sufficent technology/software. its a bit like using a microscope: magnifcation gives you a very different picture

that said, in my gig playing days i used to use a shaftesbury les paul for songs in open tuning (couldnt afford a good second gtr) and we used to get away with it. but equipment is so much better now that i doubt very much whether you could hide its shortcomings
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