Cymbals; crash, ride, hi-hats, etc

Cymbals; crash, ride, hi-hats, etc

Buy Kurious
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2006, 19:48

12 Nov 2013, 14:04 #1

I've been listening to a few of the most recent Fall gigs videos on youtube and Keiron's drumming is getting better and better, I think. There's so much more subtlety, simplicity and movement in what he's doing now.
I used to moan about him because I felt he just bashed away as hard as he could while keeping the rhythm going which is great obviously, but what bothered me was that I didn't think he created any - technical term coming up - "space".
I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that (or if it's even true), but I'd say about 99.9% of all Fall songs/performances prior to this line-up had drums that were both really infectious and, like all great rock'n'roll, the drums/rhythm really made you MOVE. They sort enliven the body/mind (latter being MES's lyrics) and just create this great exuberance and excitement.
Rather than just awe at how hard he can hit them. I'm reminded of what someone said about Lou Reed recently which was that he wasn't about playing the guitar to show he could do, he was about playing the guitar in a way that it would do something to the listening (move them, touch them, excite them, etc).

I can think of an analogy between music and, say, horror films: to take one example, John Carpenter's films are beautifully paced. He builds an atmosphere and PACES the shocks/horror (often accentuating these beforehand with beautifully paced suspense); compare that to a lot of modern horror films where many don't really create a believable atmosphere and just fill the film with as many loud and over-the-top shocks as possible. But without the prior work I mention, the shocks are just naff and become tiresome very quickly.

BUT - after that long ramble - here is point: for all his emerging aceness, Keiron still uses the cymbals an awful lot, which most people may like, I don't know; but unlike the main drum kit which provides a great rhythm and movement that real affects you, the cymbals never seem to have any effect on me at all. They're like a frill or something.
I don't see the point in them.

What do you think?
Are there any Fall songs where the drummer used the cymbals as much or used them to great effect?
"We really made a groovy team but now alone I dream dream dream dream dream..."

RIP EC
Reply

Saveloy
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2003, 12:24

12 Nov 2013, 14:08 #2

Hip Priest!
Reply

The BEF
Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 22:01

12 Nov 2013, 14:20 #3

Antidote-uh!!

B)
Nobody has the medium.
Reply

Joined: 20 Jan 2006, 20:39

12 Nov 2013, 14:25 #4

Cymbals of all kinds provide variation, and break or add tension.

Totally Wired uses the toms in the chorus and a small cymbal and a tom in the verses; it gives a different feeling to the backing: the verses have a nice flow (broken tension) and the choruses get back to the bare statement of the title over a more sparse and assertive backing (building tension). The cymbals in Right Peeved [sic] bit give a sense of uncertainty, as if the group are not sure what's going to happen: and then the toms come in this time break the tension.

This goes for a lot of songs, loads and loads of them.

Blindness , though: cymbals used to break tension, etc
"... a shiftless person, roving and magotie-headed, and sometimes little better than crased."
Reply

R. Totale
Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004, 11:39

12 Nov 2013, 14:37 #5

Backdrop and Garden.

Cymbolic!
"The Gruppe is tearful not cheerful, 'cos I'm fucking dying!"
Reply

Joined: 24 Mar 2008, 17:15

12 Nov 2013, 15:25 #6

Middle Mass. Great ride cymbal 'work'.
Reply

Joined: 20 Jan 2006, 20:39

12 Nov 2013, 16:39 #7

^^^

Then on to the hi-hat after the change. :)
"... a shiftless person, roving and magotie-headed, and sometimes little better than crased."
Reply

Joined: 20 Jun 2009, 02:14

12 Nov 2013, 16:52 #8

"All instruments are graceful." - McGannahan Skjellyfetti


NWRA, great ride cymbal...
Reply

rainmaster
Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 19:44

12 Nov 2013, 21:59 #9

MES likes cymbals, so I think we're stuck with them. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj6l8otkX3M
@ 3:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-T4RNdJ30
@0:08 and 4:08
Grade A triple platinum cunt.
Reply

marvell78
Member
Joined: 03 Jul 2003, 18:24

12 Nov 2013, 22:09 #10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd8fjspkEl0

lead tambourine and supporting crash cymbals
(actually is that a shaker...whatever it is it goes from one end to the other)
Reply

Joined: 29 Jul 2005, 19:22

12 Nov 2013, 22:22 #11

Without Mike Leigh's bravura cymbal action, A Figure Walks might just as well be silent.
I've got no time for intellectual music eg Hergest Ridge
Reply

Joined: 13 May 2009, 16:38

12 Nov 2013, 22:49 #12

Hurricane Edward, Birtwhistles Girl In Shop and Reprise: Jane – Prof Mick – Ey Bastardo all have fucking ace drumming
Reply

Buy Kurious
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2006, 19:48

13 Nov 2013, 13:45 #13

Whenever I hear "hi hat", I always immediately imagine the dude out of Miller's Crossing: "Don't give me the high hat!!"

Apropos of nothing. :(
"We really made a groovy team but now alone I dream dream dream dream dream..."

RIP EC
Reply

Joined: 20 Jan 2006, 20:39

13 Nov 2013, 17:52 #14

I used to think it was a silly and affected word (term) until I got used to it. You've got to call them something.
"... a shiftless person, roving and magotie-headed, and sometimes little better than crased."
Reply

dalyzach
Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2004, 20:24

23 Apr 2015, 21:32 #15

Buy Kurious! @ Nov 12 2013, 06:04 AM wrote:BUT - after that long ramble - here is point: for all his emerging aceness, Keiron still uses the cymbals an awful lot,
Ah, but now there's balance in The Fall because Darren doesn't have any cymbals and Keiron continues to bash his cymbals enough for two drummers. :lol:

No conversation about cymbalwork in The Fall (how have I missed this thread?) would be complete without mentioning The Karl Burns Hihat Thing. You know what I'm talking about. Live footage from the ill-fated 1998 US tour shows that Karl would open and close his hats seemingly at random as he pummeled them from above with his tree trunks, thus creating a shifting, shambling feel while keeping a rock-solid beat between the kick and snare. Hard to describe, harder to replicate (believe me, I've tried) - it's The Karl Burns Hihat Thing.
"The evil is not in extremes; it's in the one who throws the last book on the fire - the middle mass."
Reply

Saveloy
Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2003, 12:24

23 Apr 2015, 22:49 #16

The Boredoms are doing an 88 cymbals thing in London in June:

https://www.facebook.com/ThrillJockey/p ... =1&fref=nf

"Want to be one of the 88 cymbalers performing with the Boredoms at
their show at Barbican Centre in London, UK on June 27th?

To register your interest please email: boredoms[at]barbican[dot]org[dot]uk

Volunteers must be over 18. You don’t need any prior experience of
playing percussion, but you may be asked to participate in rehearsals
prior to the concert! More details to be confirmed:
http://bit.ly/1E10ivn "
Reply

robbroncs
Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2005, 23:38

11 May 2015, 12:39 #17

i try to explain this to all drummers i play with......crash all you want. but if we're singing, backthefuckup.

i started as a a drummer, and i've always done that
"who's gonna play me in the movie? STING!"
Reply