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DeOppLib · Dec 27, 2020#212020-12-27T15:17

"We lost 560 M1 Abrams in Iraq to a force or enemy with no tanks. The RPG9 is 500 dollar tank killer. Main battle tanks are obsolete and we have not developed one since the 1970s. At some point the carrier becomes the battleships of old and suffers the same fate as they did in World War Two."

WOW

I guess he never heard of the Iraqi Republican Guard.
He also never heard of the Battle of Midway, leyte Gulf, Coral Sea.

Most of the Chines Navy is old and failing miserably, including their diesel submarines. The Indian Army managed to kick China's ass using stones.

UF28 · Dec 27, 2020#222020-12-27T17:22

Do I fear a war with China, No. A full scale war with any country will be horrific, but I wouldn’t necessarily fear China’s military. What I fear more is possibly that the military thinkers/ expertsin our country & public opinion will underestimate China’s military capabilities. We did that 80 years ago and suffered mightily because of our hubris.

NYCTPF · Dec 27, 2020#232020-12-27T17:48

Intermission time (Rant education series):

UF28 · Dec 27, 2020#242020-12-27T17:54

IMBLUE wrote: ↑
Dec 26, 2020
The aerial refueling planes are at risk, our KC planes will be vulnerable and need at least escorts. No country in the pacific will let us operate from their land without that country being attacked or on the verge. Forget the New Zealanders with no attack air force and no will. Maybe the Japanese or Koreans will help or allow use of the land. Thats where these islands come into play.

We lost 560 M1 Abrams in Iraq to a force or enemy with no tanks. The RPG9 is 500 dollar tank killer. Main battle tanks are obsolete and we have not developed one since the 1970s. At some point the carrier becomes the battleships of old and suffers the same fate as they did in World War Two.

To your point, just how far will our lines be stretched as the Brits were...Clark and Subic are in the dumpster and is now a business park. Do they starve the fleet by picking off the tankers coming to fuel the frigates and bring more av gas....it takes a lot to support that massive carrier group and protect the supporting ships that bring supplies to those frigates and destroyers who protect the carrier. This will be new territory for our navy who has not fought a naval war since 45.

The indians are testing planes with microwave weapons that will cook the ground troops alive in fear of China on their border.

Recently The USN announced its return to manual steering and engine controls after the collision in the south china sea....did china hack the steering systems. My bet is that the Democrats of today make the Rosenbergs look like shoplifters in a dollartree.

We did not lose 560 Abram tanks in Iraq. In the Gulf War we lost 23 Abrams,7 of which was by friendly fire. In Iraq 80 tanks were severely damaged of which 63 were repaired and put in service. 530 tanks were shipped back to the US to repair damages whether by hostile fire or by other means.

HAPD · Dec 27, 2020#252020-12-27T19:39

UF28 wrote: ↑
Dec 26, 2020
NYCTPF wrote: ↑
Dec 26, 2020
Falklands (one of the 16 choke points), in distance, was about the farthest point on a map as you can get from Great Britain or any British base.. Getting their limited assets there was a struggle ...Their Navy back then (could or can ) hold a candle to ours... A single US carrier battle group packs a ton of bad-ass defensive systems and PUNCH, above and below the ocean surface. The democrat backed Chinese might try, but the odds of coming out on top would be slim to none!

if it were not for US Intel and logistics/weapons aid to GB they would have fared far worse. using the QEII as a troop mover was a really bad idea, but what choice did they have?

Dec 27, 2020#262020-12-27T19:53

We lost 560 M1 Abrams in Iraq to a force or enemy with no tanks

and just what part of the Pentagon did you work in that counted tanks destroyed in Eye-rack? Yup, some were damaged pretty bad by EFP's. some lost in roll overs, but rapidly repaired. others were damaged by bombs in the road beds. others hit in just the right spot like on the Thunder Run into Baghdad where a fire started due to a ruptured furl line. tank was left in place and picked up by a tank Row Tow later in the day. logistics in a Chy-neeze war would win the day. ours is a bit shaggy right now. but, chy-na has nothing like what we can put together and they import vast amounts of oil, gas and coal. what they do have is a billion should they can afford to lose. as for their subs, true most are diesel, some old and noisy and other newer designs that work very well in the shallows. for their ssbn's they've several in yards being built, some new models and some older ones. their ASAT capability is robust and a problem. even in a shooting war they can mess with out stateside comms and internet. anyone believe that the majority of American males would sign up to fight'em? not! same for females. so, they have to be rounded up and turned into cannon fodder as the professionals follow afterwards. the key to turning chy-na is intercene tribal and political turmoil we and others could foster.

IMBLUE · Dec 27, 2020#272020-12-28T01:34

These discussions when handled appropriately by adults' can spark learning and a new thought process. Unfortunately the reaction of some was no different than that of a raging liberal when they are triggered by what they do not like or believe. Telling me to phuck off and asking about my service is no different than you being told to shut up since you are not a black man etc. and then called a racist. To this point some involved in this are no different than the folks on the left you claim to hate.

I do not work for the Pentagon and none of you work for the NSA, to that point neither do you know for sure what China's capabilities are. I do hope you are right and I am wrong.

I read the same Wiki page about the M1 Abrams and my number was off by 30 tanks, boo hoo. Regardless those vehicles do not get shipped back for repairs unless they are structurally damaged beyond what the mechanics can handle in theater. The RPG 29 is so effective America would not let the Iraqi army purchase them less they be used against us.

Ike warned us about the Military Industrial Complex which sells us on these big ticket items and patriots love them blindly I just found out. Billy Mitchell was not so wrong about battleships back in the 1920s when he said airplanes can sink them easily. He was right and we found that out at Pearl and throughout the war. Now we debate surface or undersea vessels the in the same manner.

Satellites, Hyper Sonic Missiles, microwaves and unmanned aircraft will fight this coming war with China. Some kid sitting in New Mexico will fly a drone off of Midway Island and the surface ships now easily found by satellites will sit it out. I'm pretty sure the Taliban or Iraqis do not have any satellites, but do think the Chi Coms may. Then again I do not work for the Pentagon.

HAPD · Dec 27, 2020#282020-12-28T03:06

Wiki for US combat vehicle damage? A wee bit thin me thinks. During the Gulf War one of our tanks accidently shot another Abrams. Did some damage but didn't knock it out of the war. The EFP's created by Eye-ran were effective at damaging all sorts of US armor, including tanks, but they were not destroyed. To my knowledge. The Chy-neeze have many platforms that approach American capabilities. It is a never ending game of measure-counter measure-counter counter measure.

DeOppLib · Dec 27, 2020#292020-12-28T03:09

IMBLUE wrote: ↑
Dec 27, 2020
These discussions when handled appropriately by adults' can spark learning and a new thought process. Unfortunately the reaction of some was no different than that of a raging liberal when they are triggered by what they do not like or believe. Telling me to phuck off and asking about my service is no different than you being told to shut up since you are not a black man etc. and then called a racist. To this point some involved in this are no different than the folks on the left you claim to hate.

I do not work for the Pentagon and none of you work for the NSA, to that point neither do you know for sure what China's capabilities are. I do hope you are right and I am wrong.

I read the same Wiki page about the M1 Abrams and my number was off by 30 tanks, boo hoo. Regardless those vehicles do not get shipped back for repairs unless they are structurally damaged beyond what the mechanics can handle in theater. The RPG 29 is so effective America would not let the Iraqi army purchase them less they be used against us.

Ike warned us about the Military Industrial Complex which sells us on these big ticket items and patriots love them blindly I just found out. Billy Mitchell was not so wrong about battleships back in the 1920s when he said airplanes can sink them easily. He was right and we found that out at Pearl and throughout the war. Now we debate surface or undersea vessels the in the same manner.

Satellites, Hyper Sonic Missiles, microwaves and unmanned aircraft will fight this coming war with China. Some kid sitting in New Mexico will fly a drone off of Midway Island and the surface ships now easily found by satellites will sit it out. I'm pretty sure the Taliban or Iraqis do not have any satellites, but do think the Chi Coms may. Then again I do not work for the Pentagon.

Maybe you should stop reading wikipedia, most of that stuff is garbage and can be changed by anyone.
You made some ridiculous comments about Iraqi's not having tanks and you didn't even know we had bases in Japan and South Korea. You don't know much about our military, maybe you should stick with another subject.

UF28 · Dec 28, 2020#302020-12-28T11:36

IMBLUE wrote: ↑
Dec 27, 2020
These discussions when handled appropriately by adults' can spark learning and a new thought process. Unfortunately the reaction of some was no different than that of a raging liberal when they are triggered by what they do not like or believe. Telling me to phuck off and asking about my service is no different than you being told to shut up since you are not a black man etc. and then called a racist. To this point some involved in this are no different than the folks on the left you claim to hate.

I do not work for the Pentagon and none of you work for the NSA, to that point neither do you know for sure what China's capabilities are. I do hope you are right and I am wrong.

I read the same Wiki page about the M1 Abrams and my number was off by 30 tanks, boo hoo. Regardless those vehicles do not get shipped back for repairs unless they are structurally damaged beyond what the mechanics can handle in theater. The RPG 29 is so effective America would not let the Iraqi army purchase them less they be used against us.

Ike warned us about the Military Industrial Complex which sells us on these big ticket items and patriots love them blindly I just found out. Billy Mitchell was not so wrong about battleships back in the 1920s when he said airplanes can sink them easily. He was right and we found that out at Pearl and throughout the war. Now we debate surface or undersea vessels the in the same manner.

Satellites, Hyper Sonic Missiles, microwaves and unmanned aircraft will fight this coming war with China. Some kid sitting in New Mexico will fly a drone off of Midway Island and the surface ships now easily found by satellites will sit it out. I'm pretty sure the Taliban or Iraqis do not have any satellites, but do think the Chi Coms may. Then again I do not work for the Pentagon.

You stated that we “lost” 530 tanks the word lost to me implies that they are destroyed never to be used again. True we did have well over 500 tanks damaged but to various degrees a lot of the damage was not battle damage and certainly not inflicted by the deadly RPGs. Using Wikipedia as a source of information, while granted it is not always accurate ,the internet is my sole source of intel gathering. My security clearance is so low I don’t even know all the passwords in my own home. As far as some posters telling other posters to phuck off or question one credentials it comes with the territory on “ thee rant”. As I stated previously my biggest fear w/ China and for that matter any other possible military opponents is that we underestimate their intelligence or their military capabilities. We did that once and paid a hefty price for it. There would be no winners in a fighting war, China’s most likely approach in my opinion is to beat us to death in an economic war,

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