Another sacrificial lamb Patrol Supervisor collared... for MURDER 2????

lexisman · Jun 01, 2017#412017-06-01T12:52

Elmo334 wrote:
lexisman wrote:Well, it was intentional . It has all the elements for Murder2.

BUT, he has the defense of justification.
No there aren't elements because police do not shoot to cause death; we shoot to stop a threat.

When you shoot someone twice in the torso, intent can be implied.

He wasnt negligent or reckless, it was intentional.

He has the defense of justification. A very clear one.

Elmo334 · Jun 01, 2017#422017-06-01T13:04

lexisman wrote:
Elmo334 wrote:
lexisman wrote:Well, it was intentional . It has all the elements for Murder2.

BUT, he has the defense of justification.
No there aren't elements because police do not shoot to cause death; we shoot to stop a threat.

When you shoot someone twice in the torso, intent can be implied.

He wasnt negligent or reckless, it was intentional.

He has the defense of justification. A very clear one.

He intended to KILL her? Intent isn't implied, it has be proven as an element of the crime. Police shoot to stop a person from using deadly force, not to kill.

RetirementIsParole · Jun 01, 2017#432017-06-01T13:08

Like I said, the charge does not fit the fact pattern

Lt 87 · Jun 01, 2017#442017-06-01T14:11

Recently I called the Duty Captain to an EDP who would not go to the hospital voluntarily, and was admonished by the Captain for calling her, also told not to bother her again.

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NYCTPF · Jun 01, 2017#452017-06-01T14:11

Bullets don't bring instant death.. Even hitting a vital organ, an attacker that's pumped with their instantly created adrenaline will keep on coming or be able to flee...i.e., even if full of cop made surgically precise copper jacked entrance/exit holes..
That ole lead stuff actually caused better tissue damaged (= mussel shock/stopping power), bringing things to a halt statistically much faster.. uh..most times..!
Example..One of my former long time TPF partners BC (putza) was in the Stakeout squad until shot..then truck 8 until the layoffs and transferred to TPF
He and his then Stakeout partner blasted an armed perp in a MTS area western union office with slugs and 00 buck..leaving a crater were the perps heart used to be..Perp was able to run a full block before he dropped!
... and then there was Amadooooooooooooo.. took 41 copper jacketed surgical rounds to kill that wiggly little rascal when he failed to follow instructions..

lexisman · Jun 01, 2017#462017-06-01T14:22

The shooting was completely justified under article 35. Period.

But the elements of Murder 2 ate present. Shooting someone twice in the torso is sufficient to show intent. The PG is irrelevant.

If you thought it was completely unjustified, what would be the appropriate charge?

BlackCoffeeNoSugar · Jun 01, 2017#472017-06-01T14:23

NYCTPF: stated "when he failed to follow instructions.."
This is how I answer to friends and relatives when they question police shootings, the one common denominator in most police shootings is an officer shouting commands with a person who refused to obey.

NYCTPF · Jun 01, 2017#482017-06-01T14:25

Sergeant
Edward J. Johnson, Jr.
New York City Police Department, New York

End of Watch: Friday, January 8, 1960

Bio & Incident Details

Age: 35

Tour: 11 years

Badge # 990

Cause: Stabbed

Weapon: Edged weapon; Knife

Offender: Shot and killed

Sergeant Johnson
was stabbed to death after responding to a report of an emotionally
disturbed person armed with a knife in a homeless shelter. When Sergeant
Johnson and his driver arrived, they observed the suspect with a 10
inch knife. Sergeant Johnson ordered the suspect to drop the knife, but
the suspect lunged at Sergeant Johnson, stabbing him in the chest.
Before falling to the ground, Sergeant Johnson fired six shots from his
weapon and his driver fired three shots, killing the suspect.

The knife penetrated Sergeant Johnson's heart, and he died at the scene.

Sergeant Johnson had served with the New York City Police Department for 11 years. He was assigned to the 5th Precinct.

Sergeant Johnson was survived by his wife and son.

Jun 01, 2017#492017-06-01T15:24

This Sgt Johnson (NYPD) death story was told at every indoor and outdoor range reality session for my whole career..
www.nycop.com/May_99/A_Detective_from_C ... atown.html

When the cops responded into the basement, a berserk homeless man stepped from behind a corner and confronted the Sergeant. He was armed with what looked like a boning knife. Sergeant Johnson ordered the man to drop the knife at gunpoint. The assailant screamed and lunged at the Sergeant. Johnson emptied his revolver into the body of the vagrant as the crowd of derelicts cowered in terror. In the confined area, the other cops fired three shots.
Although he was shot multiple times, the forward momentum of the attacker enabled the killer to drive the knife deep into the chest of the Sergeant.
The long thin blade of the knife acted like an icepick and penetrated Johnson's heavy woolen winter blouse. The Sergeant died almost instantly. Johnson was an eleven-year veteran of the NYPD.

lexisman · Jun 01, 2017#502017-06-01T15:30

I heard the story many times. But never knew his name or where it happened.

Thank you.

Another sacrificial lamb Patrol Supervisor collared... for MURDER 2????

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