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Posted: 3:27 PM - Jan 01, 2021
jvinsp
Glad we can have a  civilized debate . Blue Devil : I know there was fraud like dead people voting , Dems that couldn't get to polls being either driver to them or had the ballots filled out for them at home by Dem Party members . However , I don't think this was systemic fraud and it certainly was not proven as none of the lawsuits succeeded and when the GOP Attorneys were asked if they had real proof they couldn't provide it . 

Buckaroo : I want to see what POTUS has up his sleeve and for a liberal Dem to go along would be huge . However our VP distanced himself as a defendant in the lawsuit stating  he has the power to take action because he says he should not be a party in the lawsuit and his job on January 6 is ministerial and administrative but he will rule on any objections as the Constitution calls for because he will obey the constitution and the law as a career Politician and an Attorney . I go back to my days majoring in Govt and Public Administration with my love of the Govt and how it runs but the swamp is horrific. My friend Rep Thomas Massie says  " I will vote to reject a state’s electors if a majority of that state’s legislature formally indicates that we should reject that state’s electors  ".  Interpretations may vary, but my position is grounded in Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution. The state legislatures direct the manner in which their electors are appointed:  


I  personally never liked the electoral college , I prefer if we went with popular vote but this is the law right now and I think Biden wins either way and only  the reason he does win is because of COVID or Trump would have won by a landslide . Meanwhile McConnell is acting like a dictator not even allowing a vote on $2000 stimulus which I don't like as its not targeted enough to get to the people who truly need it but allow a vote , up or down as we voted for these Senators to represent us and do their jobs and vote so with that I find myself agreeing with Sanders and Schumer . 

Posted: 5:05 PM - Jan 01, 2021
buckaroo_banzai
i believe there was systemic fraud coordinated by china via ballot dumps and data manipulation. however, i acknowledge that thus far it’s been circumstantial - compelling, but circumstantial.

the threshold must be high to override the current results - it can’t be easy or we  risk every election being challenged. if, however, there is irrefutable proof such as wiretaps, emails, testimony, etc making the case that china rigged this, then i think most americans would be comfortable with congress resolving this by changing the outcome.  in fact,  if that were the case, congress would have a duty to protect the republic from the actions of a foreign adversary and any domestic agents that helped it. there have been contested elections in our past and we resolved them in congress.

the federalist papers and the constitution make it clear the intent was always to have legislators resolve election issues and not judges. djt needs to give them evidence they can’t ignore. i believe he will do that and the country will be shocked at the level of corruption.

i actually like the electoral college and think it’s a great safety net, but that’s a debate for another day.

this coming week will be interesting.

stay safe.

Posted: 5:18 PM - Jan 01, 2021
SOCOM
Was China involved in all this fraud ? Yes   Are they the major players? no  Americans like Ruby Freeman and her daughter multiplied by thousands are the real criminals in all this fraud. Further, crooked RINO's like the GA governor and his secy of state are also big players, beholden to China.

Posted: 5:39 PM - Jan 01, 2021
buckaroo_banzai
freeman and people like her are major components but not the ones pulling the strings. they’re the equivalent of street corner dealers working for mid- level bosses who are corrupted politicians and political operatives. the ccp is a drug lord like escobar. and like a drug lord, they used billions in dollars to buy off politicians, judges, and law enforcement.

i don’t blame the ccp - it’s what they do. i blame us for letting it happen.

if it was anyone else, i’d say this was over. however, djt has earned the benefit if the doubt.

Posted: 5:57 PM - Jan 01, 2021
bluedevil
Whether systemic or not,I really do believe there was enough cheating/ fraud or whatever you call it to alter the outcome of what is supposed to be a fair election.  This goes way beyond Trump being re elected. 

Posted: 6:54 PM - Jan 01, 2021
NYCTPF
China or professional operatives within the democrat machine...?

Sorry kids...I think the latter!