Who is "Cryonics Property LLC"?

Who is "Cryonics Property LLC"?

Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

June 18th, 2010, 3:39 pm #1

According to Alcor's 2008 Form 990 (page 46), they paid a total of $146,352 to "Cryonics Property LLC." I'm guessing, that if one was to research earlier Form 990's, they would find similar payments.

According to Alcor:

"As of April 30, 2010, the Alcor Patient Care Trust Fund has assets of 3.55 million dollars, invested as follows:

The Patient Care Trust owns just over 75% of the shares in Cryonics Property, LLC, the limited liability company that owns the Alcor building (all other shares are owned by Alcor members). These shares (representing the Trust's equity in the Alcor building) are valued at approximately $470,000 based on the original purchase price of the building (they would be higher at current market value). The Trust also owns the mortgage on the building, valued at about $361,000. Alcor pays rent to Cryonics Property, LLC. Since Alcor does not occupy the entire building, there are additional tenants who also pay rent, which provides some additional income for the Patient Care Trust."

http://www.alcor.org/AboutAlcor/patient ... tfund.html

Yet, if I am reading this correctly, the Arizona Corporation Commission considers "Cryonics Property LLC" to have been dissolved, in September of 2001.
http://starpas.cc.state.az.us/scripts/c ... =L06025456

According to the Arizona Corporation Commission, the name "Cryonics Property LLC" is currently available, and anyone with $45 can snap it up.
http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.e ... ber=CF0059

Edit: Typo - changed "age" to "page" in the first sentence.
Last edited by melmax on June 19th, 2010, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

June 19th, 2010, 6:10 am #2

As Alcor Prez, she knows all.

jennifer@alcor.org

If she doesn't give a reasonable answer though (and who would expect that she would?), this could indeed become a fully blown scandal.

Or if she doesn't, Bonnie Magee certainly should know; after all, she is "Finance Director"
bonnie@alcor.org

Not to be confused with me, Finance Department, since Alcor has no such Department as far as we know.

Carry on.

FD

P.S. Never one to pass up a seemingly foolproof investment opportunity, I tried to buy Cryonics LLC as you suggested, but they wanted some kind of java that I did not have, so the deal did not go thru. Wherever you went, there you are.
Last edited by Finance_Department on June 19th, 2010, 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 4th, 2005, 4:23 am

June 20th, 2010, 12:50 am #3

Sorry to disappoint you all. No scandal, just the fun of dealing with many levels of governmental bureaucracy.

First, I want to thank Melody for looking up Cryonics Property LLC on the Arizona Corporations website and reporting on what she found. Hugh Hixon and I are the Co-Managers (unpaid) for the LLC. It looks like we are caught in a paper trap between various bureaucracies; but we are getting it straightened out. Apparently when our attorney retired back in 2000 (and died shortly thereafter, I heard), the address for our "Agent" was not changed from his office. Since letters to that address were not answered, and since apparently one branch of government decided not to ask any other branches of government where we might be, the Corporations Office wrongly assumed we had dissolved.

Cryonics Property LLC (Limited Liability Company) is the investment group which owns the building that Alcor occupies. The Patient Care Trust is the majority owner of the LLC and several Alcor members also own Interests. We have been functioning quite well with all of the other government agencies and local businesses. We pay our taxes to the state of Arizona and the City of Scottsdale. We file our tax forms and annual reports with the state and with the IRS. We pay all of our bills. Alcor and other tenants pay rent to us. The banks happily accept our deposits. So it was disconcerting to discover that the Corporations Office thought we were non-existent.

As soon as we saw Melody's post, we called the Corporations Office and found what we had to do to re-form the LLC (from their office's point of view). That will be cleaned up very quickly.

As to why we didn't know this sooner... how many owners of an active corporation which does an ongoing business, files paperwork, annual reports, taxes, etc. checks one more office to see if they still exist?

And no, this post doesn't mean I'm back actively on this list. I would love to retire from my job and spend lots of time doing this, but three kids in school just won't let that happen.

Steve Bridge
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

June 20th, 2010, 2:46 am #4

"Every corporation must submit an Annual Report once a year. Failure to submit a properly- completed form on or before the due date subjects the corporation to being administratively dissolved or having its authority to transact business revoked. Monetary penalties will be assessed for late-filed Annual Reports, pursuant to A.R.S. § 10-1622(F). Penalties begin accruing the day after the due date."
http://www.azcc.gov/Divisions/Corporati ... struct.asp

I believe that is the rule for almost all, (if not all), 50 states. It seems like someone, at Alcor, would have noticed that task not being taken care of, for the last eight years, especially when it involves the Patient Care Trust. I'm wondering if the penalties, (if any), were substantial.
Last edited by melmax on June 20th, 2010, 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 4th, 2005, 4:23 am

June 20th, 2010, 3:33 am #5

"38) DO LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANIES HAVE TO FILE ANNUAL REPORTS?

No, the statutes do not require LLC's to file annual reports as Corporations do. However, LLC's must still report any changes to their known place of business address, statutory agent, or members/managers. Address changes or agent appointments may be done on the LLC statement of change form. Adding or removing members/managers must be done on the LLC amendment form."

From: http://www.azcc.gov/divisions/corporati ... ual.asp#cf

Steve Bridge
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

June 20th, 2010, 2:29 pm #6

...the "C" in LLC stands for "company," not "corporation"...my mistake. I still think members should be concerned that this relatively simple task was overlooked for eight years, especially in consideration of its relationship with the Patient Care Trust. As I recall, Alcor once had to issue an apology for inappropriately borrowing funds from the Patient Care Trust, (which they did repay, after realizing their mistake). People are frequently encouraged to leave bequests and/or trusts, for cryonics organizations, of which Alcor is the largest and most well-known, so I think it should be of concern, when such an organization makes these types of errors.

Now, would Mr. Bridge like to address some of my other concerns, regarding Alcor?

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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

June 20th, 2010, 8:16 pm #7

Sorry to disappoint you all. No scandal, just the fun of dealing with many levels of governmental bureaucracy.

First, I want to thank Melody for looking up Cryonics Property LLC on the Arizona Corporations website and reporting on what she found. Hugh Hixon and I are the Co-Managers (unpaid) for the LLC. It looks like we are caught in a paper trap between various bureaucracies; but we are getting it straightened out. Apparently when our attorney retired back in 2000 (and died shortly thereafter, I heard), the address for our "Agent" was not changed from his office. Since letters to that address were not answered, and since apparently one branch of government decided not to ask any other branches of government where we might be, the Corporations Office wrongly assumed we had dissolved.

Cryonics Property LLC (Limited Liability Company) is the investment group which owns the building that Alcor occupies. The Patient Care Trust is the majority owner of the LLC and several Alcor members also own Interests. We have been functioning quite well with all of the other government agencies and local businesses. We pay our taxes to the state of Arizona and the City of Scottsdale. We file our tax forms and annual reports with the state and with the IRS. We pay all of our bills. Alcor and other tenants pay rent to us. The banks happily accept our deposits. So it was disconcerting to discover that the Corporations Office thought we were non-existent.

As soon as we saw Melody's post, we called the Corporations Office and found what we had to do to re-form the LLC (from their office's point of view). That will be cleaned up very quickly.

As to why we didn't know this sooner... how many owners of an active corporation which does an ongoing business, files paperwork, annual reports, taxes, etc. checks one more office to see if they still exist?

And no, this post doesn't mean I'm back actively on this list. I would love to retire from my job and spend lots of time doing this, but three kids in school just won't let that happen.

Steve Bridge
... that you and Hugh haven't dissolved and redistributed Cryonics Property LLC's assets! JUST KIDDING.

And I figured it was some oversight, as you describe. Glad to hear from ya here again, Steve. For any reader who doesn't know, Steve is a former Alcor President, and one of the better ones IMO. He's also neither too afraid nor too arrogant to come and talk to CF readers from time to time, and that is a quality I admire in cryonics leaders, past and present.

Cheers,

FD
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Joined: October 11th, 2006, 4:20 am

June 20th, 2010, 10:27 pm #8

...the "C" in LLC stands for "company," not "corporation"...my mistake. I still think members should be concerned that this relatively simple task was overlooked for eight years, especially in consideration of its relationship with the Patient Care Trust. As I recall, Alcor once had to issue an apology for inappropriately borrowing funds from the Patient Care Trust, (which they did repay, after realizing their mistake). People are frequently encouraged to leave bequests and/or trusts, for cryonics organizations, of which Alcor is the largest and most well-known, so I think it should be of concern, when such an organization makes these types of errors.

Now, would Mr. Bridge like to address some of my other concerns, regarding Alcor?
aint it time to get on with your life?

I mean, we are talking years now. You only worked with cryonics a short time, right? And you had some problems getting work elsewhere if I am correct, right?


I am sure platt is a pill. Never met the dude, but it seems right from I can know about humans.

But still? After all this time?

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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

June 21st, 2010, 12:22 am #9

I have a life, un, most of which I enjoy very much. Unfortunately, part of it concerns ethical issues, regarding the cryonics industry. The procedures needed to perform cryopreservations are very closely related to surgical procedures I was a part of, for nearly a decade. I believe the way cryonics organizations operate, is a matter of public concern. It's not about one person; it's about a group of people.

If you are attempting to disparage me, by suggesting I have problems gaining, or keeping, employment, you really don't know what you are talking about.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

June 22nd, 2010, 5:52 am #10

You say, about your life: "Unfortunately, part of it concerns ethical issues, regarding the cryonics industry."

Now c'mon, how stupid do you think we "ice cube's chance in hell" people are, anyway? How could it be "unfortunate" that you are so employed, unless that instead of getting paid to bring down the wrath of the elitist bioethicists upon cryonics, you would rather be floating in the pool all day?

If you sincerely feel it is unfortunate for you to be concerned about "ethical issues" (read: what an elitist group thinks is good for the rest of us), then, well, guess what? You can just STOP being concerned about whether or not we have the right to choose for ourselves!

Because you obviously care nothing about your right to do that or not.

I will not rub your nose in that you said you would not talk to me here anymore, since you just did on CryoNet.

Cheers,

FD
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