Thank you, Rick Ross moderator, for editing my post to misrepresent my position.

Thank you, Rick Ross moderator, for editing my post to misrepresent my position.

Joined: October 9th, 2009, 9:26 pm

December 16th, 2010, 9:22 pm #1

For anyone who have may checked that thread, I posted a 1022(ish?)-word reply which was reduced to 44 words. The moderator claims I was off topic and riddled with personal attacks for the rest of my 978 words. To put it mildly, I think he (intentionally) misread those words. The only individual I was personally stern with was Richie, who sent me a private message with the subject "so you got a hard on for me?" Given that I prefer not to be taken out of context, I will not post there again. I was merely trying to deflate the hot air, but I am afraid I may have encouraged it. Live and learn, I guess ;)


In summary, my reaction to that thread is best expressed by John Cusack's reaction to this orientation video on illegitimate historical revisionism:
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Joined: May 17th, 2009, 5:13 pm

December 16th, 2010, 10:52 pm #2

It's clear they aren't interested in being questioned or teased for their inaccuracies and ridiculously paranoid fantasies.

Isn't there one guy who keeps insisting that Mark Plus is a child killer because one time Mark observed that children are probably more capable of recovering from cold temperatures?

Kinda almost seems like Richie is the sane one of the bunch...
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Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:52 am

December 17th, 2010, 12:02 am #3

A whole body of literature has arisen around The Trolley Problem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

Yet I suggest the idea of a healthy ten year old as the best candidate for cryonic suspension, purely as a thought experiment, and somehow that makes me a bad guy.
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Joined: November 30th, 2005, 4:41 am

December 17th, 2010, 12:58 am #4

For anyone who have may checked that thread, I posted a 1022(ish?)-word reply which was reduced to 44 words. The moderator claims I was off topic and riddled with personal attacks for the rest of my 978 words. To put it mildly, I think he (intentionally) misread those words. The only individual I was personally stern with was Richie, who sent me a private message with the subject "so you got a hard on for me?" Given that I prefer not to be taken out of context, I will not post there again. I was merely trying to deflate the hot air, but I am afraid I may have encouraged it. Live and learn, I guess ;)


In summary, my reaction to that thread is best expressed by John Cusack's reaction to this orientation video on illegitimate historical revisionism:
Kind of strange when you consider that personal attacks occur on the conspiracy theorist forum all the time. Maybe you should ask the moderator for the official list of protected names before making a comment about anyone. Anyways, I'm sure you probably know by now that the discussions over there are a bit one sided with objective thinking being rejected at the outset. The group appears to be some kind of cult.
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 9:26 pm

December 17th, 2010, 8:24 am #5

Yeah, I think I was there just to breathe in the irony :)
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 9:26 pm

December 17th, 2010, 8:27 am #6

It's clear they aren't interested in being questioned or teased for their inaccuracies and ridiculously paranoid fantasies.

Isn't there one guy who keeps insisting that Mark Plus is a child killer because one time Mark observed that children are probably more capable of recovering from cold temperatures?

Kinda almost seems like Richie is the sane one of the bunch...
I tried to explain some basic empirical evidence to him, and he wrote it off as "bullshit." It is clear that he is not all there. He has recycled his own words to the point that he has forgotten they are his own words and thus claims them as facts derived from outside parties. The moderator could have made the thread more readable if he simply retained his first couple of posts, gave him a pat on the back and told him, "Keep up the good work, Anticult!" Then quietly transfer him to an identical looking forum where he could continue copying and pasting by himself.


http://xkcd.com/695/
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Joined: June 5th, 2009, 12:29 am

December 18th, 2010, 12:27 am #7

For anyone who have may checked that thread, I posted a 1022(ish?)-word reply which was reduced to 44 words. The moderator claims I was off topic and riddled with personal attacks for the rest of my 978 words. To put it mildly, I think he (intentionally) misread those words. The only individual I was personally stern with was Richie, who sent me a private message with the subject "so you got a hard on for me?" Given that I prefer not to be taken out of context, I will not post there again. I was merely trying to deflate the hot air, but I am afraid I may have encouraged it. Live and learn, I guess ;)


In summary, my reaction to that thread is best expressed by John Cusack's reaction to this orientation video on illegitimate historical revisionism:
Posted in august, But its new to me...comments?

"Cryogirl was a young lady with mental health issues who got involved with people who are satanists and vampires who also are into Cryonics. She wanted to emulate them her twisted way, so took things too far and SLEPT WITH HER STEPSON and abused a AUTISTIC CHILD. Then she blamed her husband for abusing her and used her satanist freinds (and others in the cryonics community) to take her side and run away with the Stepson. Later she ABANDONED the 19year old when he was being difficult and he ended up in what can only be descibed as a crackhouse in michigan. It is worth mentioning here that the POLICE want to "talk" to her about this not to mention the social security and others. What you got here is the after effects of what happens when people get into cults or try and emulate satanists when they have mental health problems. People Like BEN BEST, JIM YOUNT, DAVID STYLES, EDGAR SWANK and SHANNON VYFF - KNEW she had mental health problems and instead of prehaps helping her - PLAYED NASTY LITTLE GAMES - PURE AND SIMPLE - they dangled a "trust fund" over her head, sent her money for "cryogirl" marketing, put her in cryonics magazines, sent her their sexual fantasies, introduced her to satanism, engaged in cybersex while she was still at home, tried it on homosexually with her stepson at a teens and twenties event for cryoncists and even played "mental health councillor". They used her to market cryonics and when it went wrong they helped her avoid the police and make her husband look like a hill-billy OGRE. They are putting her up on california in a house and trying to keep her away from her family by using money and FEAR to infuence her. It is rumoured that every now and again some of the grandpa sleazebags gos over to use her for sex - but taht could be just the HUSBAND venting - who knows its still pretty FUCKED UP they are putting her her up and effectivly IMPRISONING her a jail does not have to have iron bars to be effective.

Now we go into present time - The Stepson is with his birth mother after she RESCUED him from the crackhouse, Cryogirl is completely head fucked - scared out of her mind. Calling the husband and freaking out unable to leave the "compound" because she thinks shes messed her life up forever. She is trying to exert any power she may have over her "captors" or her husband by saying she is valuable - She can destroy cryonics. Fact is she probably knows nothing you are dealing with a very scared young woman who has messed her head up with all the Satanist crap. Her husband is at his wits end - He does not know what to do but try and expose what happenned to his family because of "satanic cryonicists".

Is that real enough for you? Seriously you cryo-claques need to back away - this is not about cryonics its about human issues, real life stuff - You feel me?

Its not about the "noble" experiment that Ettinger wrote about in the 60's its about how some rather dodgy people have used cryonics to abuse people."
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Joined: November 30th, 2005, 4:41 am

December 18th, 2010, 2:35 am #8

I tried to explain some basic empirical evidence to him, and he wrote it off as "bullshit." It is clear that he is not all there. He has recycled his own words to the point that he has forgotten they are his own words and thus claims them as facts derived from outside parties. The moderator could have made the thread more readable if he simply retained his first couple of posts, gave him a pat on the back and told him, "Keep up the good work, Anticult!" Then quietly transfer him to an identical looking forum where he could continue copying and pasting by himself.


http://xkcd.com/695/
The other option is that you could offer Anticult, or should I say Jeffrey Goines, his $5,000; that is, unless the moderator over there and Jeffrey are one and the same: http://movieclips.com/oSZg-12-monkeys-m ... f-madness/
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Joined: June 12th, 2008, 12:11 am

December 21st, 2010, 11:09 pm #9

I tried to explain some basic empirical evidence to him, and he wrote it off as "bullshit." It is clear that he is not all there. He has recycled his own words to the point that he has forgotten they are his own words and thus claims them as facts derived from outside parties. The moderator could have made the thread more readable if he simply retained his first couple of posts, gave him a pat on the back and told him, "Keep up the good work, Anticult!" Then quietly transfer him to an identical looking forum where he could continue copying and pasting by himself.


http://xkcd.com/695/
I said I would read all the RR pages, a few weeks back but ended up getting stuck at page 47--for two reasons, 1. I was busy and not able to keep spending time doing it and 2. It really was boring hearing Anticult repeat the same things, the thread just seems quite silly over time. I do need to get back and finish, possibly even post some more
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Joined: June 12th, 2008, 12:11 am

December 21st, 2010, 11:56 pm #10

Posted in august, But its new to me...comments?

"Cryogirl was a young lady with mental health issues who got involved with people who are satanists and vampires who also are into Cryonics. She wanted to emulate them her twisted way, so took things too far and SLEPT WITH HER STEPSON and abused a AUTISTIC CHILD. Then she blamed her husband for abusing her and used her satanist freinds (and others in the cryonics community) to take her side and run away with the Stepson. Later she ABANDONED the 19year old when he was being difficult and he ended up in what can only be descibed as a crackhouse in michigan. It is worth mentioning here that the POLICE want to "talk" to her about this not to mention the social security and others. What you got here is the after effects of what happens when people get into cults or try and emulate satanists when they have mental health problems. People Like BEN BEST, JIM YOUNT, DAVID STYLES, EDGAR SWANK and SHANNON VYFF - KNEW she had mental health problems and instead of prehaps helping her - PLAYED NASTY LITTLE GAMES - PURE AND SIMPLE - they dangled a "trust fund" over her head, sent her money for "cryogirl" marketing, put her in cryonics magazines, sent her their sexual fantasies, introduced her to satanism, engaged in cybersex while she was still at home, tried it on homosexually with her stepson at a teens and twenties event for cryoncists and even played "mental health councillor". They used her to market cryonics and when it went wrong they helped her avoid the police and make her husband look like a hill-billy OGRE. They are putting her up on california in a house and trying to keep her away from her family by using money and FEAR to infuence her. It is rumoured that every now and again some of the grandpa sleazebags gos over to use her for sex - but taht could be just the HUSBAND venting - who knows its still pretty FUCKED UP they are putting her her up and effectivly IMPRISONING her a jail does not have to have iron bars to be effective.

Now we go into present time - The Stepson is with his birth mother after she RESCUED him from the crackhouse, Cryogirl is completely head fucked - scared out of her mind. Calling the husband and freaking out unable to leave the "compound" because she thinks shes messed her life up forever. She is trying to exert any power she may have over her "captors" or her husband by saying she is valuable - She can destroy cryonics. Fact is she probably knows nothing you are dealing with a very scared young woman who has messed her head up with all the Satanist crap. Her husband is at his wits end - He does not know what to do but try and expose what happenned to his family because of "satanic cryonicists".

Is that real enough for you? Seriously you cryo-claques need to back away - this is not about cryonics its about human issues, real life stuff - You feel me?

Its not about the "noble" experiment that Ettinger wrote about in the 60's its about how some rather dodgy people have used cryonics to abuse people."
Well, firstly I had no idea that Amanda had as much dysfunction going on in her family that she had when I was talking with her. Secondly, I thought she was still in counselling and dealing with the abuse she had suffered as a child. I shared painful things from my past that I had gone through, and tried to share how that had effected me in my early twenties (with my liking or feeling of needing attention from men) and how I had changed my life now, and come to live a different way. She had shared with me that she was worried about some email from a leader at ACS that had an invitation of a sexual nature, I advised her that she did not need to respond to that, she could just deal with them in a professional manner and focus on the trust she was setting up. I did not know the extent of the flirtation that was going on, also how she was flirting back. After she left her husband and young children her husband was extremely upset and forwarded a bunch of her recent emails (till she regained control of her account)a sordid and still uncomplete story emerged. I saw in the emails, and Amanda's posted Pay Pal account that Jim Y. of ACS used his, and official ACS funds to pay Amanda 400 to 500 dollars a month ostensibly for "out reach work" on her Myspace page. The funds also had messages like, "Here's some sugar" and there were requests for more "pictures" on her Myspace account. It was questionable how effective her Myspace account was, as she did have a lot of risqué photos, such as photos of her in her underwear. I'm fine with people who like to be sexy, or even have open marriages. I did not think while I was talking with Amanda by email and twice on Skype that she was in an open marriage, I believed her when she said she loved her husband and was just having fun, also that she knew her husband would "pull the plug" on her Internet if she went too far. I had mentioned that some people might just flirt with her, and not really be interested in Cryonics. She was highly flirtatious with me, and I assume that she was with others as well. I know she was with Ben Best, he also had given some warnings-but sadly sort of flirted back (not overtly, just saying he appreciated her photos and such-being "too polite" or honest). I had told him that she didn't need feedback like that, and that I thought she got a lot of self worth from how others viewed her sexually. I had hopes that she would focus on working to set up a first responder network there in KY.

She left, no one knows where she is, but many, including her husband, strongly suspect that her living expenses are being paid for by ACS or Jim Y. and it is known that she is in CA (just not where exactly). I've not talked with her, but would love to. I know she is likely not trusting anyone, even her husband--as she is mad at him for his putting up secretly tape recorded conversations with her that she did not want put up. Even if those are taken down, they have been copied by other people and are around on the net. Maybe they can get some professional help, some therapy and mediation. There are serious allegations of child abuse and neglect from her husband, some worry that he did not do enough to protect them, he is loving and caring for them now and says they are talking more, are more explorative of their home and less fearful after she left.

He really wants her back home, loves her and says he will start over and forgive her. They will likely needs some therapy too though if she comes back, they will still have things they are hurt and angry over and it would be good to set up better communication tools so the same thing would not ever happen again. He feels it is his fault for not monitoring her, but that also would have made her feel controlled and she needs to make her own decisions in life.

I do not think she is being held against her will, and even though Amanda is emotionally troubled at times, she is smart. In the conversations she had with her husband, she wanted him to trust her, that she knew what she was doing. I'm sure she has more of a story to tell and it will be coming out.

I do not normally post things about other people, what I think they think and such, without their permission. I want to note that Shannon Blevins did give me permission to write about their situation and what went on with ACS.

Now, on the Satanism thing, I don't know--apparently one of the leaders or ACS, Edgar S. used to be in the Church of Satan. I've not heard anything to suggest that he is still active. Amanda calls herself atheist, and this is upsetting to her husband--I've not heard her (in the recently recorded phone calls with her husband) call herself a Satanist.

I hope her stepson is moving on with her life. The house they were in for a few days near CI is not a crackhouse, that is a silly accusation (of which there are many on the RR forum). The man who lives there is a father, who raised his children (all successful adults now) as a single parent. He is a really sweet guy that I met at a conference once and I'm sure he not only has never been in COS that he would not know much about COS, what it was, what they believe etc. Amanda's stepson is not currently talking with his father, so hopefully they will be able to make up. The past few years though in their home were intolerable living conditions, with the secret relationship being carried on between the step mother and step son. They too, would benefit from professional help.

I never played "health counsellor" I just tried to be a friend. I don't "market cryonics" either, I'm a member and a volunteer, but have never been in a paid position or actively tried to "sell" cryonics or get people to sign up. Recently I had a friend I skate with that was interested, I told her about all the funny accusations, and talked about the realities of the two main organizations--how I think it has a almost zero chance of working, etc. Some people are just interested in trying it though, and will sign up on their own--usually after contemplating it for a few years.

Well, I've got cookies in the oven, need to go get our roast on our dinner plates, and currently have 7 kids in the home (I'm taking them skating after dinner).

I can answer any questions that I know about though queensblade. I do prefer talking with people who stand behind their real names on the net, but know there are sometimes cases where a person needs to keep their identity concealed, there are a few in cryonics who still feel the need to do so. I'm sure with time as the community keeps growing and professionalizing that will change. There are a lot of great, upstanding people within cryonics--and only a handful of the more sensationalist types.
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