Luke Parrish idea deserves comic book-- 50 heads a minute into megafacility.

Luke Parrish idea deserves comic book-- 50 heads a minute into megafacility.

Joined: August 9th, 2006, 2:07 am

December 7th, 2009, 2:29 pm #1

This is amusing from a 1960's science fiction comic book point of view...
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php? ... opic=33311

There's nothing wrong with this kind of speculation and imagination in my view. I'd like to see LP's ideas portrayed in a graphic novel or comic book. It's certainly a potential basis for a science fiction movie-- and the comic would serve as a story board.
Last edited by CF_Moderator on December 8th, 2009, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

December 8th, 2009, 3:44 am #2

He did say at one point he was going to work for Jordan Sparks, doing what he did not say. A RUP doing dental work? (just kidding!)

Many possibilities come to mind as to why he has stopped posting here of late (including maybe feeling bullied by more aggressive posters), but we don't know.

Luke, give us an update? I'd love to see Oregon Cryonics become a viable provider.

Cheers,

FD
Last edited by CF_Moderator on December 8th, 2009, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 17th, 2009, 5:13 pm

December 13th, 2009, 3:16 pm #3

I am a support tech at an open source dental practice management software company that Jordan has built. (See:http://www.opendental.com/) I think the decrease in posting frequency has something to do with the fact that I am using my creative and problem-solving skills at work on a routine basis now, so my brain is not overwhelmingly bored at the end of the day. It is also a longer work week as it is a full time position, so I don't have as much time to spend writing forum posts. (I tend to spend a lot of time on most of my posts.)

From what I've talked to Jordan about (I tend to focus on work while at work so this isn't all that often) the plan for Oregon Cryo is to stick with neuro exclusively, and try to build the local community in that geographical location. There are plenty of health-science related educational and career opportunities in that part of Oregon so there's potential for a lot of really brainy people who actually know what they are doing to get moved in there, or even be recruited from the local populace. Jordan believes the temperate weather will make it easier to build this kind of community in Oregon than in Arizona. I expect the focus in Oregon will be primarily on people who are actually willing to move to the area (especially during retirement or illness), rather than remote services to all areas of the nation.

I hope lots of enthusiastic, competent, rational people will consider moving to the Salem area to join us in the coming years. The more numerous the people involved, the better it will be for economics of scale as well as the sooner it will become mainstream. I think that most of cryonics' problems are related, one way or another, to the picayune scale it is performed on today.

In the long run I think it best to have a moderate sized stabilization-capable community in each geographical region, with a smaller number of relatively large-scale storage centers. Depending how things work out, I may be inclined to travel and help establish competent stabilization options in more regions. I am not comfortable with the idea of waiting for the arrival of people from Florida or Arizona, and I don't think anyone should be... If you fall deathly sick or are getting old, your most rational option is to fly straight to Scottsdale or Detroit. Hopefully Salem will be another good area for this in the near future.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 17th, 2009, 5:13 pm

December 13th, 2009, 3:56 pm #4

This is amusing from a 1960's science fiction comic book point of view...
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php? ... opic=33311

There's nothing wrong with this kind of speculation and imagination in my view. I'd like to see LP's ideas portrayed in a graphic novel or comic book. It's certainly a potential basis for a science fiction movie-- and the comic would serve as a story board.
I am of course aware that there are huge barriers to what is really likely to actually happen any time soon, especially if I am waiting for other people to do it. But let's face it, many of the barriers to action are caused by lack of imagination. If even a relatively small cryodome were constructed, to house just a few million people, the cost would be brought to a fraction of what it currently is per person. If we were to make one for a few billion people that fractional cost would be even smaller.

But even if the cost were the same at larger scales as it is on a smaller scale, it wouldn't utterly swamp the human economy -- it would be a significant yet manageable impact, even if new patients are added for several centuries. The yearly cost of enough LN2 to keep a single dewar cold is probably in the $500/month or $6000/year range. It is far less than caring for a terminal patient by any other means. During that time they don't need food or medical care, and their existence causes far less pollution than a single living child or pet dog in the western world.

If being cared for as a terminal patient for 100 years were necessary to get access to technology that makes you young and whole again, wouldn't you do it? Of course you would. Storing everyone in the world, even at the $6000/year price range, should be considered morally imperative. It just happens to be the case that storing everyone in the world would in reality reduce the cost to $6/year or less.

The problem is that the "dead" are excluded from most people's consciousness in much the same way that starving orphans in remote countries are. People who will fight to keep a brain-dead person like Terri Schaivo animate could care less about the fate of someone who has been declared dead by medical criteria and cooled to -130C. This is due to widespread ignorance in my opinion.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 9th, 2006, 2:07 am

December 13th, 2009, 4:28 pm #5

I am a support tech at an open source dental practice management software company that Jordan has built. (See:http://www.opendental.com/) I think the decrease in posting frequency has something to do with the fact that I am using my creative and problem-solving skills at work on a routine basis now, so my brain is not overwhelmingly bored at the end of the day. It is also a longer work week as it is a full time position, so I don't have as much time to spend writing forum posts. (I tend to spend a lot of time on most of my posts.)

From what I've talked to Jordan about (I tend to focus on work while at work so this isn't all that often) the plan for Oregon Cryo is to stick with neuro exclusively, and try to build the local community in that geographical location. There are plenty of health-science related educational and career opportunities in that part of Oregon so there's potential for a lot of really brainy people who actually know what they are doing to get moved in there, or even be recruited from the local populace. Jordan believes the temperate weather will make it easier to build this kind of community in Oregon than in Arizona. I expect the focus in Oregon will be primarily on people who are actually willing to move to the area (especially during retirement or illness), rather than remote services to all areas of the nation.

I hope lots of enthusiastic, competent, rational people will consider moving to the Salem area to join us in the coming years. The more numerous the people involved, the better it will be for economics of scale as well as the sooner it will become mainstream. I think that most of cryonics' problems are related, one way or another, to the picayune scale it is performed on today.

In the long run I think it best to have a moderate sized stabilization-capable community in each geographical region, with a smaller number of relatively large-scale storage centers. Depending how things work out, I may be inclined to travel and help establish competent stabilization options in more regions. I am not comfortable with the idea of waiting for the arrival of people from Florida or Arizona, and I don't think anyone should be... If you fall deathly sick or are getting old, your most rational option is to fly straight to Scottsdale or Detroit. Hopefully Salem will be another good area for this in the near future.
....to right-to-die. So, Luke... Use the force... of deception. Your new boss has done a good job on that and now i expect you'll follow in his footsteps.

For anyone who doesn't know the history of my investigation into Sparks and his Oregon/Salem outfit-- there is an overt and obvious method involved in his operations involving NOT talking about the right-to-die. In inner circles in cryonics, this is because the behaviorists-- like computer experts and others-- think that if you associate cryonics with right-to-die (which is consider legal murder)-- that cryonics would be associated with that. Mike Darwin's 1992 murder of his friend is a case in point. Hugh Hixon's reference to murder in the Johnson tapes is another.

The better way to deal with cryonics murder and euthenasia murder in general is to frame it as legalized murder-- like war for example. We could frame cryonics as a war on death and the paradox is that you have to self-murder or be murdered near what is thought to be the end of your life in order to maintain cellular integrity. Avoiding the idea that right-to-die is a type of murder is philosophically problematic. The intent in right-to-die is to kill a person... which technically is murder.

My own view is that we ought to be doing the opposite and ratcheting up the EXTREME life support systems-- with cost only limit. But eventually, if you can keep a lot people alive on extreme life support, the costs would fall. I can imagine an medical building where we house 1000 heads-- all talking to one another-- about their plans for reintegration onto their bodies.


Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 9th, 2006, 2:07 am

December 13th, 2009, 7:17 pm #6

I'd support a cryonics policy of right-to-extreme-life support. Here's a comic book where living heads are throwing themselves around...



Here's a patient (head only) on extreme life support from a 1950's sf movie...



Ikaria does extreme life support-- cryonics should hook up with this operation and forget Oregon

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... f&oq=&aqi=

ITU or intensive therapy unit would be where cryos would end up

http://www.ukhtb.org/en/Cells%20and%20Tissues/Glossary

A fairly recent public discussion took place about Terry Shaivo who was allowed to die when her only extreme life support was a feeding tube...

http://www.nevadalife.org/pressroom/pr050325.html

I would have thought the right to extreme life would be hotly debated by now. Dying is easy. It's staying alive that's an exploration into higher tech and the future. And cryonicsists ought to be leading the way on that.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 9th, 2009, 9:26 pm

December 13th, 2009, 8:52 pm #7

Thanks for making my day XD
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 17th, 2009, 5:13 pm

December 15th, 2009, 4:55 am #8

....to right-to-die. So, Luke... Use the force... of deception. Your new boss has done a good job on that and now i expect you'll follow in his footsteps.

For anyone who doesn't know the history of my investigation into Sparks and his Oregon/Salem outfit-- there is an overt and obvious method involved in his operations involving NOT talking about the right-to-die. In inner circles in cryonics, this is because the behaviorists-- like computer experts and others-- think that if you associate cryonics with right-to-die (which is consider legal murder)-- that cryonics would be associated with that. Mike Darwin's 1992 murder of his friend is a case in point. Hugh Hixon's reference to murder in the Johnson tapes is another.

The better way to deal with cryonics murder and euthenasia murder in general is to frame it as legalized murder-- like war for example. We could frame cryonics as a war on death and the paradox is that you have to self-murder or be murdered near what is thought to be the end of your life in order to maintain cellular integrity. Avoiding the idea that right-to-die is a type of murder is philosophically problematic. The intent in right-to-die is to kill a person... which technically is murder.

My own view is that we ought to be doing the opposite and ratcheting up the EXTREME life support systems-- with cost only limit. But eventually, if you can keep a lot people alive on extreme life support, the costs would fall. I can imagine an medical building where we house 1000 heads-- all talking to one another-- about their plans for reintegration onto their bodies.

I don't get it. Cryonics is not about dying, it is about staying alive.

If you are trying to say we should try to legalize premortem cryonics by citing war as a precedence for legal homicide, I disagree. Premortem cryonics should be legalized by declaring the person not dead, in my opinion.

If it is to be called death, it needs a separate legal category. Brain death and cardiorespiratory death have their own separate categories, after all. Perhaps there could be a category for "preservative death" that recognizes the intent and potential to reverse the condition.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

December 18th, 2009, 12:04 am #9

I'd support a cryonics policy of right-to-extreme-life support. Here's a comic book where living heads are throwing themselves around...



Here's a patient (head only) on extreme life support from a 1950's sf movie...



Ikaria does extreme life support-- cryonics should hook up with this operation and forget Oregon

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... f&oq=&aqi=

ITU or intensive therapy unit would be where cryos would end up

http://www.ukhtb.org/en/Cells%20and%20Tissues/Glossary

A fairly recent public discussion took place about Terry Shaivo who was allowed to die when her only extreme life support was a feeding tube...

http://www.nevadalife.org/pressroom/pr050325.html

I would have thought the right to extreme life would be hotly debated by now. Dying is easy. It's staying alive that's an exploration into higher tech and the future. And cryonicsists ought to be leading the way on that.
36 years in a vegetative state, force fed in a hospital:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8417549.stm

Somewhere in the universe there has likely evolved a planet where technology has advanced such that human bodies can be kept alive forever. There are no sentient ones left. Only billions of vegetative ones, all being kept alive by robots programmed to "do no harm".

Ain't it ever,

FD
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 9th, 2006, 2:07 am

December 18th, 2009, 4:26 am #10

...nanotech, digital memory files, fresh neurons etc. isn't it? At least it was the last time I checked my science fiction stack of books. I don't know. Maybe you're reading the wrong science fiction.
Quote
Like
Share