I stumbled upon this while wading through the swamp (of recent posts)

I stumbled upon this while wading through the swamp (of recent posts)

Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

February 28th, 2010, 4:07 am #1

From:http://www.network54.com/Forum/291677/m ... e+Medicine

Melody in [ ]

[One of my first observations, after stumbling into the field of cryonics, was that people should be working toward statutory changes that would optimize cryopreservation attempts.]

That was an observation of nothing, and entirely an opinion Melody derived.

[Many times, I've put forth that the ideal situation would be one in which legalized assisted suicide for terminal patients signed up for cryopreservation was carried out, via perfusion. They would be anesthetized and then cooled, just as patients are, in the initial steps of heart surgery.]

That is certainly an interesting idea, and probably one which has occurred to most people interested in cryonics, so she is not alone. Also, this is the first time I remember her ever "put(ting) forth" this idea. Considering her other posts of late, I fear this may be a trap. The reality is that cryonics is far from being respected enough as an alpha-level "science" to be performed in a medical environment which could go directly from legal assisted suicide to cryopreservation procedures. The further reality is that at this point in time, considering the general public ignorance on cryonics and a seemingly growing anticryonic movement (mentioned by Melody where she says [People are getting ready to challenge cryonics protocols and personnel] in her "Nonsense" post), to advocate such a stance would be tantamount to advocating the end of cryonics via legislative mania. Other posts from Melody of late give us reason to highly suspect where she really stands on "the end of cryonics". Oh, and also her heckler friend "Lgeorge".

[Fallout from my conventional medicine friends will probably follow this post, but they are more forgiving than the cryonics community. They allow me to straddle the fence, usually responding with laughter, rather than outrage.]

People with substantial medical credentials, rather than merely a bachelor's in perfusion, actually read here? WHY DON'T THEY POST?

Cheers,

FD

PS to "Lgeorge": Go play with yourself; I will not play with you.
Last edited by Finance_Department on February 28th, 2010, 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

February 28th, 2010, 1:29 pm #2

FD is following a well-established tradition, on this forum, of attempting to discredit me with personnal attacks.

If FD cannot find where I have written that the ideal circumstances for cryopreservation would involve legalized assisted suicide, he hasn't looked very hard. As for his attempts to belittle my degree, it is not "merely a bachelor's in perfusion," but a bachelor's of allied health science, the same as some of those physician assistants, from whom people like FD regularly receive their medical care. In the past, there were perfusion schools, which only focused on perfusion, but mine wasn't one of those. Baylor College of Medicine thought all their students "should have a broad scope of medical knowledge," so we took classes, and did clinical rotations, right along with the medical students and interns. Under supervision, I treated patients on the floors of Houston hospitals, doing exams, making diagnoses, performing various procedures, prescribing meds, etc. The only difference between my class and the physician assistant class was the last six months of clinical rotations. During those six months, the perfusion students focused perfusion, while the physician assistant (PA) students did an OB/GYN rotation, plus two electives. (We all received the same bachelor's degree...along with certificates in our areas of specialization.) If I had been willing to go for another six months of clinicals, I would have also been a physician assistant, but I was a very broke, very tired, single mother, with a good job offer, at the time.

FD's personal attacks on me, and his crude suggestion to George, are really out of line.
Last edited by melmax on February 28th, 2010, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

March 1st, 2010, 1:31 am #3

Frantic allegations of "abuse" presented to try to cloud the air, hm....

It is noted that you did everything except respond to the core issue of my post above, which is: Why you do or do not think that connecting legalized assisted suicide with cryopreservation procedures at this time would be tantamount to advocating the end of cryonics via legislative mania, considering that the public's hysterics button has been pushed recently already by media such as the LJ book.

As to my alleged "belittling" of your degree, it would appear from what you said that I missed only one thing: you have a bachelor's of "allied health science" and a certificate in perfusion. I don't think this justifies us calling you "Dr. Maxim", do you? Of course it has been obvious that you think you know more than some doctors, such as one involved in cryonics who has posted here in the past.

You said "If FD cannot find where I have written that the ideal circumstances for cryopreservation would involve legalized assisted suicide, he hasn't looked very hard." That's right; I didn't look at all. I didn't say I did. I said it was the first time I remember seeing the idea from you. If I missed seeing it before, c'est la vie. If you think it is a serious issue that you ever mentioned it before, cite me one CF post where you did and I'll admit to either having forgotten it or not having noticed it.

As to my suggestion to the forum user with whom I will no longer play, I thought he would do well to go have a good online solitaire game, instead of playing around on CF.

Cheers,

FD
Last edited by CF_Moderator on March 4th, 2010, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

March 1st, 2010, 1:25 pm #4

There was nothing "frantic" about my post. FD seems to be the one with raw nerves, frantically attempting to cloud the air and rattle me. Maybe, when he gets done with his little victory dance, he'll go back to explaining exactly how 25mg of propofol is supposed to "keep people unconscious/dead," (as he, Mathew and Harris all put forth), or whatever he is now claiming it is supposed to do.

As for the "core issue" of FD's previous post, I ignored it because he was twisting things again. I did not advocate the cryo-orgs lobbying for legalizing assisted suicide, at this particular point in time. Enoonsti mentioned changing statutes, and I put in my two cents on that topic, bringing up comments I've made in the past. I think it will be a very long time before lawmakers will consider any type of statutory changes, in favor of cryonics organizations, considering the damage that has been done to the image of cryonics organizations, over the past few decades, (by the people involved, not by the people who reported it). FD wants to blame Johnson for pushing the "public's hysterics button," but I think that button has been pushed, repeatedly, by Alcor and others involved in cryonics, with their frequent unethical and irresponsible behavior. It amazes me that no one sees fit to chastise the people involved in questionable activities, (for example, the people on those tapes), but prefer to criticize the people who report them, (such as Johnson and Kunzman).

FD's attacks on my education were upsetting to me, because he wasn't simply belittling me, but a very fine college of medicine, my classmates, and those who came before and after us. I'm happy FD finally found out what has been in the first sentence of my blog bio, for more than two years. Did I tell him about the pharmacology, and other classes, I've taken in recent years? Probably not...I didn't know I had to pass FD's standards, or have a medical degree, to voice an opinion on things I am familiar with. As for physicians, while I have the utmost respect for each and every physician I've ever worked with, the past behaviors of the physician I think FD is referring to are a large part of why I think cryonics should be regulated.

FD is "spinning" out of control, with his recent onslaught of personal attacks. He has good reason to be concerned, but he really should reconsider who is to blame for this mess. If I had never typed a word, about cryonics, the regulation efforts would still be coming, and some of the people involved in cryonics have no one to blame, but themselves.
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Joined: July 1st, 2007, 8:16 am

March 1st, 2010, 3:23 pm #5

Frantic allegations of "abuse" presented to try to cloud the air, hm....

It is noted that you did everything except respond to the core issue of my post above, which is: Why you do or do not think that connecting legalized assisted suicide with cryopreservation procedures at this time would be tantamount to advocating the end of cryonics via legislative mania, considering that the public's hysterics button has been pushed recently already by media such as the LJ book.

As to my alleged "belittling" of your degree, it would appear from what you said that I missed only one thing: you have a bachelor's of "allied health science" and a certificate in perfusion. I don't think this justifies us calling you "Dr. Maxim", do you? Of course it has been obvious that you think you know more than some doctors, such as one involved in cryonics who has posted here in the past.

You said "If FD cannot find where I have written that the ideal circumstances for cryopreservation would involve legalized assisted suicide, he hasn't looked very hard." That's right; I didn't look at all. I didn't say I did. I said it was the first time I remember seeing the idea from you. If I missed seeing it before, c'est la vie. If you think it is a serious issue that you ever mentioned it before, cite me one CF post where you did and I'll admit to either having forgotten it or not having noticed it.

As to my suggestion to the forum user with whom I will no longer play, I thought he would do well to go have a good online solitaire game, instead of playing around on CF.

Cheers,

FD
FD: "I must be hitting a nerve!”

You probably meant to write "I must be hitting a funny bone!” Because I have not laughed so hard ever since Rudi Hoffman, a member of Alcor Board of Directors at a cryo forum instructed you to "Go F. Yourself" and got a vote of general support for it.

FD: "It is noted that you did everything
except respond to the core issue of my post”

The core of your post is a three link chain consisting of: 1 Insults. 2 Hatred of Alcor. 3 Ignorance of cryo issues.
You finally realized that Alcor delighted in the comedy show you created with your pointless attacks on Alcor, so now you turned you unwanted attention to other objects.

FD: "As to my alleged "belittling" of your degree"

Please tell us about your scholastic/academic achievements. No, remedial classes do not count.

FD: "As to my suggestion to the forum user with whom I will no longer play..."

You do not have to explain yourself. It is obvious that your mummy wants to have all of you for her and does not want to share you.

FD: "If you thought I meant something sexual,
does that speak for where your mind is?"

I did not notice anyone bringing anything sexual into discussion. Only you. You alone are bringing sexual thought into it. Well, now we can guess what draws you to cryonics.... Dewars full of alluring cool bodies.

FD: "Do you think sex is "crude"?"

When it involves the combination of dewars residents and you, then yes, absolutely!

George

P.S. I notice that I am constantly on your mind and you cannot complete one posting without thinking and mentioning me.

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