I Really Hope Larry Johnson Gets Arrested

I Really Hope Larry Johnson Gets Arrested

Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

June 30th, 2010, 1:41 pm #1

I'm serious. I hope Johnson gets arrested and extradited, to Arizona. (Sorry, LJ, but I do.)

This whole Larry Johnson arrest warrant/extradition thing is rather kooky. Two attorneys have told me that citizens of one state, being sued by someone in another state, cannot be forced to even attend the legal proceedings, (not even a jury trial), in the foreign state. Of course, if the person being sued does not show up, it's likely a judgment will be levied against them. If that happens, the only thing the victorious plaintiff can do is attempt to collect for a number of years, and ruin the defendant's credit. I've been told there's no possibility of jail time, over a civil matter. (Of course, I live in Florida. I suppose the laws in Arizona could be different, but I don't see how they can inflict their state laws on the citizens of another state, in a civil matter.)

I think Alcor would have been wise to have ignored Johnson. He would have had his "15 minutes in the spotlight," and then the world would have promptly forgotten both him, and Alcor. Personally, I think Alcor's efforts to quash Johnson's book and interviews have not been about protecting things like "trade secrets," and "patient confidentiality," as much as they have been about hiding Alcor's dirty laundry. If Larry Johnson gets arrested, he is going to be a "martyr" for whistle-blowers, everywhere. Every news show that aired Johnson's interviews will be all over a whistle-blower being extradited from one state to another, over a civil matter. While Johnson can't talk about Alcor, I'm sure his attorneys have the right to talk about the case. If carried out, I believe that extradition order will be an invitation to a brand new media frenzy, centered around Alcor...but, hey, it's Alcor's party.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

June 30th, 2010, 4:53 pm #2

The original case was civil, and Johnson was ordered not to talk about Alcor. Wouldn't violating that order be contempt of court?

Put yer JD hat on, MM, and enlighten us.

Happy day,

FD
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

June 30th, 2010, 8:29 pm #3

I just want Johnson arrested and extradited. (Sorry, again, LJ, but it's for a good cause...actually two good causes.)

It's been so long since the warrant was issued, I can't remember the details. I did a quick google search on some of the terms FD used, and found this:

"The fugitive must be lawfully charged with a crime. This refers to the substance of the charges. Extradition is not available for any civil claim, including contempt and, more particularly, or criminal contempt.
http://www.tndagc.org/oc/handouts/Extra ... andout.pdf

I only have sun hats, and don't really know much about the law, but this seemed interesting.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2004, 8:27 pm

July 1st, 2010, 4:47 am #4

... with one of your pretty hats on. Or get too much Sun - melanomas are hard to beat.

Sorry you neither know nor care, but I hate to inform you that the material you cited is from the State of Tennesee. Even unperson would confirm it has nothing to do with the interpretations of Constitutional rights given by the States of Arizona and Nevada.

But how would I know. Being a virtual and anonymous Person, I have no real Hat.

It does appear, though, that it has nothing to do with Alcor, but entirely to do with the Court in Arizona which seems to feel it has been made the target of Contempt. That is usually not a pleasant thing to be the cause of.

I can certainly see it playing out differently from how you envision. I can see LJ going to jail, and well deserved for flaunting the law. I can see Alcor getting all this negative publicity from it, which many of them think is better than no publicity at all, and gets them ever more members. I don't think that, but some of them do, and it provides no incentive for them to worry about what the newspapers publish.

Glad you want LJ arrested and extradited. You said that above, and I have it archived, in case you decide to edit it out after I have replied to it, with the Forum Owner's apparent blessing.

Ever on,

FD
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 1st, 2010, 12:09 pm #5

FD: "...I hate to inform you that the material you cited is from the State of Tennesee. Even unperson would confirm it has nothing to do with the interpretations of Constitutional rights given by the States of Arizona and Nevada..."

It's true that Arizona and Nevada may have some variations from Tennessee, but the extradition laws of 48 of the 50 states are fairly uniform, in their interpretations of the Constitutional rights related to that matter.
"The Uniform Criminal Extradition Act The UCEA has been adopted by 48 of the 50 states, the only exceptions being South Carolina and Missouri."
http://peacesecurity.suite101.com/artic ... ted_states

I said the article seemed "interesting." I don't know the variations of the UCEA, in the states of Arizona, or Nevada, but somehow I tend to think judges might frown on extraditions for reasons related to civil cases. I'm sure most states spend more than they want to spend extraditing REAL criminals.

FD: "Glad you want LJ arrested and extradited. You said that above, and I have it archived, in case you decide to edit it out after I have replied to it, with the Forum Owner's apparent blessing."

Once again, FD is twisting things, attempting to distort reality. He knows damn well I have never removed anything I've posted. He's going to use one instance of my editing a post, (which did not change the intent of the post, and was carefully documented at the bottom of the edited post), to paint me as someone who would remove bold, specific statements, when he knows I would do no such thing. I only went back to responding to FD, because I thought he was behaving a bit more responsibly. I can see I was wrong to start communicating with him, again, so I'll just stop. Our interactions usually turn out being childish, (on both our parts).

As for Johnson...I STILL want him arrested. I have the private cell phone number of a major network news show producer I know would be interested in that story. Turn yourself in, Johnson.

(That last bit about Johnson turning himself in, is a joke. I'm sure the authorities in Nevada know where he lives, where he works, and how to get in touch with his attorneys)
Last edited by melmax on July 1st, 2010, 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 13th, 2010, 12:48 pm #6

I'm serious. I hope Johnson gets arrested and extradited, to Arizona. (Sorry, LJ, but I do.)

This whole Larry Johnson arrest warrant/extradition thing is rather kooky. Two attorneys have told me that citizens of one state, being sued by someone in another state, cannot be forced to even attend the legal proceedings, (not even a jury trial), in the foreign state. Of course, if the person being sued does not show up, it's likely a judgment will be levied against them. If that happens, the only thing the victorious plaintiff can do is attempt to collect for a number of years, and ruin the defendant's credit. I've been told there's no possibility of jail time, over a civil matter. (Of course, I live in Florida. I suppose the laws in Arizona could be different, but I don't see how they can inflict their state laws on the citizens of another state, in a civil matter.)

I think Alcor would have been wise to have ignored Johnson. He would have had his "15 minutes in the spotlight," and then the world would have promptly forgotten both him, and Alcor. Personally, I think Alcor's efforts to quash Johnson's book and interviews have not been about protecting things like "trade secrets," and "patient confidentiality," as much as they have been about hiding Alcor's dirty laundry. If Larry Johnson gets arrested, he is going to be a "martyr" for whistle-blowers, everywhere. Every news show that aired Johnson's interviews will be all over a whistle-blower being extradited from one state to another, over a civil matter. While Johnson can't talk about Alcor, I'm sure his attorneys have the right to talk about the case. If carried out, I believe that extradition order will be an invitation to a brand new media frenzy, centered around Alcor...but, hey, it's Alcor's party.
From a recent article in the Journal of Emergency Medical Services:

"After developing a successful curriculum in Texas for paramedics, Emergency Medical Service (EMS) professionals Dr. Bryan Bledsoe and Larry Johnson collaborated again to create the Critical Care Paramedic Academy, which offers advanced courses designed to train and educate paramedics in Southern Nevada.

Both men are well respected in Southern Nevada for their work with the major EMS entities..."

http://www.jems.com/article/industry-ne ... ing-academ

Imagine the nerve of that dastardly Larry Johnson...fooling the world into believing he's a well-respected medical professional, except within the extremely small world of cryonics, where he probably was foolish enough to expect people to behave in a professional manner, similar to that he's accustomed to, in conventional medicine. Shame on him. Alcor needs to have that boy arrested, before he makes himself look any more professional and respectable, than he already does.

Seriously, (while, there were some things I feel could have been omitted from his book), this man appears to be a well-respected, well-liked person, in conventional medicine. Alcor could probably have benefited from his expertise, if some of his co-workers hadn't been acting like a bunch of incompetent, unprofessional, unethical buffoons. He obviously walked away from cryonics, outraged, and I think he had good reason to. If the Alcor vs. Johnson et. al. case makes it to a trial, who is going to look more credible? Larry Johnson (with his tapes), or the people he worked with, at Alcor???
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Joined: August 31st, 2007, 2:14 pm

July 13th, 2010, 10:17 pm #7

Melody implies that because Johnson appears to have a good history in some respects, he must be assumed to be honorable in all respects. As noted in my earlier post above, this is just not true. Everyone has variations of character and blemishes on his record. Below is evidence concerning just one of Johnson's lies concerning an Alcor patient whose death was allegedly deliberately hastened. The writer of the Amazon review was the nurse taking care of the patient. It seems far more likely that the nurse is telling the truth than Johnson.

The following is copied from Amazon.com
------------------------------------------
44 of 58 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars I WAS THE NURSE/I WAS THERE, November 11, 2009
By Ronald Hennes RN "CoastMedRN" (Los Angeles) - See all my reviews



This review is from: Frozen: My Journey into the World of Cryonics, Deception, and Death (Hardcover)
Very interesting book. However, the part where it is claimed the death of the patient in North Hollywood was "hastened" by an Alcor staff member is simply untrue. I was the RN caring for the patient that night and he died of natural causes. His body was turned over to Alcor per the prior arrangements (the patient and his partner with Alcor) after I declared he had expired. At no time have I ever been a member of Alcor nor been in their employ. And at no time did anyone other then myself administer any medications to the patient that night that I am aware of and I do not believe it possible that this could have been done. When I observed and documented that he had no pulse, no respirations, and no heartbeat I concluded he had expired. The authors of the book never contacted me. I was interviewed by detectives from the LAPD several years ago when these charges were first made and I told them what I am writing in this review.



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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 14th, 2010, 1:45 pm #8

Mr. Ettinger: "Below is evidence concerning just one of Johnson's lies concerning an Alcor patient whose death was allegedly deliberately hastened. The writer of the Amazon review was the nurse taking care of the patient. It seems far more likely that the nurse is telling the truth than Johnson."

Mr. Ettinger,

We've already been through this, on this forum, but maybe you missed it. Johnson did not fabricate the story about that particular incident. He heard the story from his co-workers, and it was virtually identical to the story told to me, by some of my co-workers, at SA. Johnson has a number of Alcor staff members, discussing what appears to be more than one illegal euthanasia, on audiotape. You can hear at least a couple of those recordings, here: http://frozenbook.com/audio.php Also, if you do a thorough search, you can find a lot of Internet discussions, (including comments from Saul Kent), regarding a certain person, whose activities had the potential to be very damaging to cryonics. For someone who has heard the stories, it's easy to "read between the lines."

The nurse made his first appearance in the public eye, when he called ABC Nightline to claim Johnson was "lying," and to claim the patient in question died in his bedroom alone with his lover, rather than in the garage as Johnson's repetition of the Alcor legend had described. The nurse's version of the story directly contradicts the Alcor case report, (written by Mike Darwin and Keith Henson), which states: "The nurse, who was extremely supportive and competent, had called it close. Nick (with Jim holding his hand to the end) quit breathing and experienced cardiac arrest about half an hour after we got him into the garage." http://alcor.org/Library/html/casereport9205.html

I have a hard time believing Mike and Keith lied, about the location of the patient at the time of death, when they wrote their report, 18 years ago. IF they WERE going to lie, they should have told the nurse's version of the story!! Ironically, Carlos Mondragon called ABC Nightline, implying the rumors regarding the illegal euthansia were true and saying Alcor had severed all ties with the person who had been accused, (presumably by Alcor staff members), of hastening the death of an Alcor client. (Unfortunately, Mr. Mondragon was not honest enough to also mention that Alcor brought back the same person, to perform the Ted Williams case.)

The nurse, whose name had never been mentioned by Johnson, (and I don't believe it was mentioned on Nightline), later wrote the Amazon review and signed his name. At that point, I observed that SOMEONE wasn't telling the truth, (since the nurse's story contradicted the Alcor report and Mondragon's statement), and questioned whether the nurse was attempting to protect his own professional reputation. (Though the best way to do that, would have been simply to remain silent, as no one had ever named him, until he did so, himself.) After that, the nurse kept posting on Amazon, claiming he had tried to contact me many times, but that I had ignored him. I, having never received a single email from him, contacted him, immediately, and we exchanged several polite emails. He insisted the Alcor report was wrong, and that the patient had died in the bedroom, rather than the garage, as stated in the Alcor report. He speculated that some of the Alcor staff members fabricated the story about killing someone, (though I can't imagine why they would do that!). He also claimed Mike had identified himself and Tanya, as nurses, at the time of the case. (He was very specific about this...I can't recall the exact details, without digging out my archived files, from an old computer, but I believe he said Mike identified himself as a BSN and Tanya as an LPN.)

After these very civil exchanges, I had the nerve to go off on a ten-night vacation, without telling anyone. I have a very strict policy of not checking my email, on vacation, and while I was gone the nurse sent me quite a few emails. Apparently, he was offended that I was not responding to him. Not only did his emails get hostile, he went on a rampage, writing nasty things about me, on Amazon, (at the same time he was writing some really nasty, and untrue, things about Larry Johnson). After I remarked on his reckless speculations being libelous, he edited out a lot of the comments he had made, and issued a public apology to both Johnson, and me.

If you choose to believe the nurse's version of the story, you are going to have to call a lot of people associated with Alcor "liars," such as the people discussing illegal euthanasia on those audiotapes, and the two who wrote the report, which contradicts the nurse's story. Johnson was just repeating what he heard from Alcor's own staff members. Either they were involved in illegal euthanasia, or they lied about being involved in illegal euthanasia...either way, they reek of unethical and unprofessional behavior.
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Joined: August 31st, 2007, 2:14 pm

July 14th, 2010, 3:56 pm #9

What's left is mostly contradiction and confusion, the only clarity being Johnson's deliberately throwing mud for profit.

I haven't heard the alleged tapes, but would be very surprised if the identities of the speakers were clear and the context not in doubt. What is clear is that Johnson accepts the worst gossip, with the worst interpreation, to make money, and Melody goes along.

"Euthanasia" could be, and is, argued ad nauseam, but if--I don't buy it, but if--someone at Alcor shortened a patient's life in order to improve his cryopreservation and possibly end his suffering, to call that "murder" is just preposterous. In hospice situations, thousands of times a year, narcotics are used to trade time for comfort.

Police detectives investigated the incident and found nothing worthy of pursuit. Johnson saw dollars worthy of pursuit, and Melody assists him.

Those nipping at cryonics always stop after a while. Either they get tired of it or they die.

Robert Ettinger
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

July 15th, 2010, 1:07 pm #10

As I just wrote, in another post, one of the first things Johnson ever told me was that he knew he would spend more on legal fees, then he would earn from the book. Since, I doubt the book earned much money, and he has attorneys representing him in three states, I would assume his prediction has turned out to be true, (something that surprised me, because I really thought Alcor would have been wise to issue a simple statement, such as "Mr. Johnson hasn't worked here, since 2003, and all those issues have been addressed," and then just ignored him).

If Mr. Ettinger will listen to the portions of the tapes, which are available online, he will find them quite clear and the voices easily recognizable. (I could only recognize one, because I don't know the other people, but I've been told, by others, they are easy to identify.) If Mr. Ettinger wants to see more of the context, he can find extended transcriptions of some of the tapes, in the book, and perhaps the complete transcripts will be available, in public documents, at some point in time.

It's interesting that Mr. Ettinger mentions the possibility of (one of) the alleged illegal euthanasia(s) possibly being intended to end someone's suffering. One of the transcripts, of a taped conversation Johnson had with Hugh Hixon, indicates a patient was close to death, but Alcor couldn't get their equipment through the door, so they rehydrated him and "brought him back from that edge," so they could set up their equipment somewhere else, and move him. Maybe they prolonged his agony, rather than alleviated it. The same conversation seems to indicate traffic might have been one of the considerations, in the alleged illegal euthanasia.

"What's left," in my mind, is a long-standing history of making a mockery of proven hypothermic medical procedures, and every time people working in cryonics engage in questionable activities, THEY, (not Larry Johnson, or I), bring cryonics activities one step closer to being regulated. (Something that should not affect CI, as they are already regulated.)

Mr. Ettinger is satisfied with the small "something that is better than nothing," and a belief that the scientists of the future will be able to repair any degree of damage, but I'm not. Even if that plays out to be true, (and I don't think it will), how long would it be for that technology to be available? Are people going to be safe from forces of nature, or acts of man, for hundreds, or thousands, of years in the Dewars and cryostats? I think everyone interested in cryonics should demand more, because "more" has been available for a very long time. Instead of accepting the MINIMUM that could be provided, cryonicists should be demanding the MAXIMUM standard of care current technology has to offer, in regard to hypothermic procedures. (Something I plan on writing more about, on my blog, as soon as I finish my review of the Henderson case.)
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