Arizona cryogenics lab Alcor used Ted Williams' frozen head for batting practice

Arizona cryogenics lab Alcor used Ted Williams' frozen head for batting practice

Joined: October 6th, 2004, 6:46 pm

October 2nd, 2009, 1:35 pm #1

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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

October 2nd, 2009, 2:28 pm #2

...when you have a bunch of incompetent, unethical boneheads pretending they are scientists and/or doctors. This would never have happened if companies like Alcor and LEF, or people like Bill Faloon and Saul Kent, used any degree of common sense in developing cryonics companies. They have the money to build respectable organizations, yet they insist on funding stupidity.
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

October 2nd, 2009, 2:39 pm #3

None of the current employees of SA were involved, (with the possible exception of Sullivan, who may have been an Alcor employee, at the time), but their predecessors were involved, when Ted died, here, in Florida. Of course, Kent has always been ultimately responsible for the activites of SA, (and sometimes heavily involved in Alcor), so it is at least partially HIS fault for all the bad publicity cryonics has received, as a result of past, and recent, foolishness.
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Joined: October 6th, 2004, 6:46 pm

October 2nd, 2009, 2:46 pm #4

Someone sent me the link.

Seems you have companies selling high-tech, expensive preservations performed by clowns with no training, certification, standards, supervision or accountability.

What's wrong with this picture? How can this be? Why does it go on?
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Joined: April 30th, 2006, 1:38 am

October 2nd, 2009, 3:40 pm #5

I believe those two factors explain how this happens, and why it continues.

You have a handful of very greedy individuals who are able to fool a very small group of people, (including a few individuals who have a lot of money), that they are some sort of "scientific/medical" experts. They have everyone convinced that hypothermic procedures are so totally unique that no one knows how to even begin to do them, but this is not true. Profound hypothermic arrest procedures have existed, in conventional medicine, for decades, and anyone with half a brain would realize that the logical course of action would be to build on existing technology and talent. Instead, we have store clerks, sports pros, science fiction writers, etc., holding training sessions, teaching anyone off the street simple tasks like injecting meds into IV lines, as if that is going to lead to a successful cryopreservation.

Judging by the number of people in cryonics who "self-promote" by publishing their own Wikipedia and Knol entries, I would say some of the people running the show have extremely fragile egos coupled with desires to be "big fish," when the truth is, they could never be the "big fish" in a larger, less secretive, pond. Most of them would be "eaten alive" in a respectable medical, or scientific, community, and they know it. (I believe some of them already have been.)

Add to this that a couple of them have managed to gain control of some serious money, and you have an exponentially-increased reason to maintain the status quo. How much is the payroll Harris and his three family members command at CCR? Are their salaries and benefits somewhere in the range of half-a-million dollars a year? If they are so accomplished and productive, why the secrecy? (And, I don't want to hear any BS about "proprietary" information.) What about the salaries Platt established, and Baldwin maintains, at SA? Is there any reason a handful of people and a few consultants, (none of whom have applicable qualifications and experience), should cost a company, such as SA, well over half-a-million dollars a year, (maybe close to 3/4 of a million dollars a year, or even more)? Sure, there are reasons, but none of them are legitimate. I believe people get paid to be "loyal," in fact that is what I was told about at least one person at SA. Maybe they get these excessive salaries, so that the people who hire them, and pay them, can justify their own excessive salaries and/or consulting fees.

The sad part is, after the Ted Williams debacle, and having surely been made aware of existing hypothermic arrest technology...Kent et. al. should have had the small amount of sense it would take to realize they needed to hire ONLY respectable medical professionals and scientists. Can you imagine Kent and Faloon, (and/or their equivalents at Alcor), sitting around after the Ted Williams incident, saying, "What do we do, now?" and then deciding to continue to rely on extremely unqualified people who would hire others with absolutely no medical education, or experience, to do cryopreservation procedures? That's not even unwise, it's just plain stupid.
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Joined: July 12th, 2007, 3:45 pm

October 2nd, 2009, 6:13 pm #6

...when you have a bunch of incompetent, unethical boneheads pretending they are scientists and/or doctors. This would never have happened if companies like Alcor and LEF, or people like Bill Faloon and Saul Kent, used any degree of common sense in developing cryonics companies. They have the money to build respectable organizations, yet they insist on funding stupidity.
I'm terrorized CI will be blamed too, unless we separate ourselves from them.

I strongly consider that all accusations are just made up to hurt someone. But the media won't care.
Last edited by Edward-M on October 2nd, 2009, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 12th, 2007, 3:45 pm

October 2nd, 2009, 6:21 pm #7

I believe those two factors explain how this happens, and why it continues.

You have a handful of very greedy individuals who are able to fool a very small group of people, (including a few individuals who have a lot of money), that they are some sort of "scientific/medical" experts. They have everyone convinced that hypothermic procedures are so totally unique that no one knows how to even begin to do them, but this is not true. Profound hypothermic arrest procedures have existed, in conventional medicine, for decades, and anyone with half a brain would realize that the logical course of action would be to build on existing technology and talent. Instead, we have store clerks, sports pros, science fiction writers, etc., holding training sessions, teaching anyone off the street simple tasks like injecting meds into IV lines, as if that is going to lead to a successful cryopreservation.

Judging by the number of people in cryonics who "self-promote" by publishing their own Wikipedia and Knol entries, I would say some of the people running the show have extremely fragile egos coupled with desires to be "big fish," when the truth is, they could never be the "big fish" in a larger, less secretive, pond. Most of them would be "eaten alive" in a respectable medical, or scientific, community, and they know it. (I believe some of them already have been.)

Add to this that a couple of them have managed to gain control of some serious money, and you have an exponentially-increased reason to maintain the status quo. How much is the payroll Harris and his three family members command at CCR? Are their salaries and benefits somewhere in the range of half-a-million dollars a year? If they are so accomplished and productive, why the secrecy? (And, I don't want to hear any BS about "proprietary" information.) What about the salaries Platt established, and Baldwin maintains, at SA? Is there any reason a handful of people and a few consultants, (none of whom have applicable qualifications and experience), should cost a company, such as SA, well over half-a-million dollars a year, (maybe close to 3/4 of a million dollars a year, or even more)? Sure, there are reasons, but none of them are legitimate. I believe people get paid to be "loyal," in fact that is what I was told about at least one person at SA. Maybe they get these excessive salaries, so that the people who hire them, and pay them, can justify their own excessive salaries and/or consulting fees.

The sad part is, after the Ted Williams debacle, and having surely been made aware of existing hypothermic arrest technology...Kent et. al. should have had the small amount of sense it would take to realize they needed to hire ONLY respectable medical professionals and scientists. Can you imagine Kent and Faloon, (and/or their equivalents at Alcor), sitting around after the Ted Williams incident, saying, "What do we do, now?" and then deciding to continue to rely on extremely unqualified people who would hire others with absolutely no medical education, or experience, to do cryopreservation procedures? That's not even unwise, it's just plain stupid.
swinging at a frozen head, with a wrench, has nothing to do with medical qualifications. it's just a stupid thing to do.. Doctors have lots of errors too, & many are absurd. (Aren't doctor's mistakes arguably the leading cause of death in the US healthcare system?) Personally, I've seen lots of bonehead doctors who aren't any smarter than these guys. If Kent hired some of the doctors I know, they might've accidentally microwaved it.

The main problem is hiring people who aren't serious about learning or safety.
Last edited by Edward-M on October 2nd, 2009, 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 11th, 2006, 4:20 am

October 2nd, 2009, 6:58 pm #8

I'm terrorized CI will be blamed too, unless we separate ourselves from them.

I strongly consider that all accusations are just made up to hurt someone. But the media won't care.
if we give interviews at all on this story, it will only help provide the controversy that the media needs to keep the story alive.

Say nothing!
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Joined: October 6th, 2004, 6:46 pm

October 2nd, 2009, 7:00 pm #9

swinging at a frozen head, with a wrench, has nothing to do with medical qualifications. it's just a stupid thing to do.. Doctors have lots of errors too, & many are absurd. (Aren't doctor's mistakes arguably the leading cause of death in the US healthcare system?) Personally, I've seen lots of bonehead doctors who aren't any smarter than these guys. If Kent hired some of the doctors I know, they might've accidentally microwaved it.

The main problem is hiring people who aren't serious about learning or safety.
the famous patients, wonder what the mere mortals get for their money?
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Joined: October 6th, 2004, 6:46 pm

October 2nd, 2009, 7:18 pm #10

if we give interviews at all on this story, it will only help provide the controversy that the media needs to keep the story alive.

Say nothing!
"oh please: alcor was not disrespectful towards TW. Not in any way. "
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