Royos
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May 24th, 2016, 9:09 am #11

WillQueek wrote:I also feel like that could be elaborated some more.

Also guys, to add to the discussion, I actually don't think we should hold a full fletched election instead of this.

The council has been looking for people to fill in the gaps Silas and Vorg leave behind, they have found two perfectly qualified people to fill the gap and we still get to have our say. I see no problem here.

This method might actually be better. Since we skip to the part where we decide about actually qualified people.



Btw, Guildenstern you have a really convincing bio there! Have a cookie! @
Yeah, although I wasn't keen on it to begin with, I'm warming up to the idea.
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rjward1999
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May 24th, 2016, 9:33 am #12

Nurglitch IX wrote:
Royos wrote:
Nurglitch IX wrote:I've got over 80 messages spanning four weeks debating this, and it's still only here because someone went rogue.

New Councilors isn't going to speed things up, they're going to slow things down. They're not going to revitalize the board, they're going to further deadlock the council.
Sounds like you have stuff you wana share Nurglitch. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. So what do you mean by someone went rogue?
And, is the council deadlocked? What do you mean by this and how will new councilors make it worse?
The council doesn't Deadlock, ever. But remember there's 12 of us, spread pretty evenly around the globe. Each with our own schedules and availabilities. Right now we're running on a reduced staff, and we know it, so we want to hear yes or no from 5 people before we do anything. If it's something important, like this election, we want to hear from everyone before we act, even if we know we've got 5.

The problem comes in when something isn't yes|no. Like this election. Do we need to replace people? Do we need moderators? Do the moderators need to be full council members? Do we need to revive the Council Guard? What about special areas? Would having an AOS/9thAge/KoW 'ambassador' be better than a general mod? And how do we get a new person? Do we hold a full election? Do we hold an up/down poll? Do we just say these are them? How many people voted last election? How many do we need to hold an election? Do we hold separate elections or a combined one? And always the question: will we be a block, and if so, will that 10 people sway the election?
And remember, we're 8-10 people in this discussion, and it may be 16 hours between replies because timezone.

So, adding 2 new councilors, that means every important decision requires another round or two of discussion. Even unimportant ones need another vote to pass a majority.

And we have to balance this against what we get for our people. Honestly I see only 1 thing we need, and they're both super qualified people for this: we need someone who's got more free time than me to run our competitions. I try, I really do, but between family, scouts, keeping all the other parts of the board going, the 7 facebook groups I admin for, and a full time job as a programmer, I get stretched a bit thin some weeks. And there's not much of that I can pass off to others.

I've said all this in Council Chambers, and a bit more besides, and I don't think any of this violates confidentiality, and of course, this is all me and my position. Obviously each of the others has their own, same or different, and they're free to share some of that as well.

As for the other, I'd have liked a day or two to finish our votes, and reset the Announcement Forum to handle a proper poll. We had the 5 to hold the up|down vote, though obviously we had no votes as well, but not everyone was finished weighing in, and even if they were minority voices, they deserve the chance to swing the vote their way with a solid argument. There was also another day or two as we wrote the vote post, as again, not all the members had signed off yet.

I know we wanted to get this up and moving, because if it's to be done it best be done quickly, and the Horned Lord knows I've got 3 other projects I need to get moving that don't need to be taking debate time away from something as important as new seats. But a day or two would have been nice.
Well I've currently got exams, but also a hell of a lot more free time as a result, and will do for a couple of months. I'd be happy to run competitions (with some guidance from the council :P ) if that's what needs to be done
Chinese Proverb wrote:He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not is a fool forever.
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Nurglitch IX
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May 24th, 2016, 3:16 pm #13

rjward1999 wrote:
Nurglitch IX wrote:...
And we have to balance this against what we get for our people. Honestly I see only 1 thing we need, and they're both super qualified people for this: we need someone who's got more free time than me to run our competitions. I try, I really do, but between family, scouts, keeping all the other parts of the board going, the 7 facebook groups I admin for, and a full time job as a programmer, I get stretched a bit thin some weeks. And there's not much of that I can pass off to others.
...
Well I've currently got exams, but also a hell of a lot more free time as a result, and will do for a couple of months. I'd be happy to run competitions (with some guidance from the council :P ) if that's what needs to be done
I think we'll have competitions covered shortly.

But depending on how my next project goes, I am hoping to need volunteers for some labor intensive stuff before the end of summer. I'll keep you on the short list ;) Dev
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Royos
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May 25th, 2016, 1:22 am #14

Nurglitch. Instead of getting people to do stuff for you, why we just get someone in who has the time and energy to do things in your place?
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Nurglitch IX
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May 25th, 2016, 1:54 am #15

Royos wrote:Nurglitch. Instead of getting people to do stuff for you, why we just get someone in who has the time and energy to do things in your place?
That's not how it works. This is temp work, a one and done job with a clearly defined start and finish. We do it in the real world all the time, hell, that was *MY* job for 10 years.

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Royos
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May 25th, 2016, 2:18 am #16

Mate, are you getting paid to do this? If not then how is it temp work?
My point is, if you need to step down because you don't have the time to do stuff like run the comps etc. then I don't think the council is about to stop you by holding you to a contract. We have other people with time and energy to do the work, why not let them step up? Like Silas did, isn't this what the discussion is about?
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Nurglitch IX
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May 25th, 2016, 5:42 am #17

Royos wrote:Mate, are you getting paid to do this? If not then how is it temp work?
My point is, if you need to step down because you don't have the time to do stuff like run the comps etc. then I don't think the council is about to stop you by holding you to a contract. We have other people with time and energy to do the work, why not let them step up? Like Silas did, isn't this what the discussion is about?
No, I get the feeling we're talking about at least 2 completely different things.
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Royos
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May 25th, 2016, 5:50 am #18

Haha, yeah me too. Oh well. Let's just leave it for another day then.
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WillQueek
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May 25th, 2016, 6:06 am #19

Nurglitch was comparing people temporarily taking over running contests/stuff to what has been his actual job. Which presumably was something comparable to a fill-in teacher or a freelancer taking over for people that are sick or having a baby.
FOR THE GLORY OF THE HORNED RAT OF COURSE!
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Nurglitch IX
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May 25th, 2016, 6:41 am #20

So, Thing 1) Competitions. This is where I'm weakest. Mainly because I have a near clinical inability to manage time. Also because I'm not a quality painter. I do a lot of other things, but these I never quite seem to get to. Which is fine, there are 12 of us, at full power, if 2 or 3 of the 11 who aren't me do it, we're golden. Heck, even if there's only 3 of us and the others work on those, we're good.

2) Other then that, there's a list of things I'd like to see done. Some of them you should never see, like the Permissions changes I made last night. Some of them you won't be able to miss. And some I'm going to need 'help' with because even 12 people working all their free hours won't get my most ambitious plan finished in a week. This is the extra help I was talking with rjward about

3) I like the joke that I turn 30 in February, because I believe in base13. For most of my 20s I was a Freelance computer Guru. People brought me in to do a thing, then let me go when I was done. I built web pages for car parts companies. I ran the scales for a Chemical Factory. I wrote the training course they still use at BMW USA to train all of their warehouse workers. And a hundred other jobs in between. Yeah, I approach the UE like this. I'm working, and getting paid in nothing but the joys of your company. Also, it's how I think now, which is why when I look at the stuff for point 2, I call it temp work.
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