Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

5:44 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #41

As for the WTF folks....It's interesting to drop in on them every blue moon, just to get a feel for the current vibe of folks on the Left. Most are pretty well educated, have good careers or jobs, and may even be well-adjusted, normal functioning adults, albeit with a Left- ward political bent.

And some need medicating.

But it does give one a view into what's happening in a "mainstream" liberal bunch of folks and not some bunch of absolute idiots like Dem Underground.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Quote
Like

Klaus
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 11:45 AM - May 21, 2006

7:01 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #42

Larry wrote:Klaus, this isn't a math problem to be solved. All that needs to be shown is that evangelical Christianity is not in decline, but is in fact growing. How much is beside the point. I've shown that.
Well, actually you haven't shown that. I'm not saying it's not true.

This has nothing to do with math. But it has a lot to do with presenting a coherent argument. I'm a bit annoyed that often when one scratches on a part of your arguments, it turns out there isn't much substance behind it.

Anyway, I won't stop you guys from enjoying some more WTF bashing.
Quote
Like

Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

7:34 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #43

Klaus wrote:
Larry wrote:Klaus, this isn't a math problem to be solved. All that needs to be shown is that evangelical Christianity is not in decline, but is in fact growing. How much is beside the point. I've shown that.
Well, actually you haven't shown that. I'm not saying it's not true.

This has nothing to do with math. But it has a lot to do with presenting a coherent argument. I'm a bit annoyed that often when one scratches on a part of your arguments, it turns out there isn't much substance behind it.

Anyway, I won't stop you guys from enjoying some more WTF bashing.
Took me 8 seconds to find this.

8 seconds.

May not be exactly what you're looking for, but it does show how much effort you are putting into your quest for Truth and Knowledge...

https://www.sociologicalscience.com/dow ... 6to700.pdf
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Quote
Like

Klaus
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 11:45 AM - May 21, 2006

7:48 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #44

Jolly wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Larry wrote:Klaus, this isn't a math problem to be solved. All that needs to be shown is that evangelical Christianity is not in decline, but is in fact growing. How much is beside the point. I've shown that.
Well, actually you haven't shown that. I'm not saying it's not true.

This has nothing to do with math. But it has a lot to do with presenting a coherent argument. I'm a bit annoyed that often when one scratches on a part of your arguments, it turns out there isn't much substance behind it.

Anyway, I won't stop you guys from enjoying some more WTF bashing.
Took me 8 seconds to find this.

8 seconds.

May not be exactly what you're looking for, but it does show how much effort you are putting into your quest for Truth and Knowledge...

https://www.sociologicalscience.com/dow ... 6to700.pdf
Thanks. Maybe you are just better at googling than I am.
Quote
Like

Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

7:52 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #45

Klaus wrote:
Jolly wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Larry wrote:Klaus, this isn't a math problem to be solved. All that needs to be shown is that evangelical Christianity is not in decline, but is in fact growing. How much is beside the point. I've shown that.
Well, actually you haven't shown that. I'm not saying it's not true.

This has nothing to do with math. But it has a lot to do with presenting a coherent argument. I'm a bit annoyed that often when one scratches on a part of your arguments, it turns out there isn't much substance behind it.

Anyway, I won't stop you guys from enjoying some more WTF bashing.
Took me 8 seconds to find this.

8 seconds.

May not be exactly what you're looking for, but it does show how much effort you are putting into your quest for Truth and Knowledge...

https://www.sociologicalscience.com/dow ... 6to700.pdf
Thanks. Maybe you are just better at googling than I am.
You have got to be kidding...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Quote
Like

Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 8:54 AM - Apr 22, 2005

8:40 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #46

Klaus wrote:
Larry wrote:Klaus, this isn't a math problem to be solved. All that needs to be shown is that evangelical Christianity is not in decline, but is in fact growing. How much is beside the point. I've shown that.
Well, actually you haven't shown that. I'm not saying it's not true.

This has nothing to do with math. But it has a lot to do with presenting a coherent argument. I'm a bit annoyed that often when one scratches on a part of your arguments, it turns out there isn't much substance behind it.

Anyway, I won't stop you guys from enjoying some more WTF bashing.
Well, actually I have. Perhaps the problem here is your lack of ability to think. Because you see, the Wiki link I gave you states it quite clearly. The links to various Pew Research articles are given. As for your opinion that there's not much substance to my arguments, if you can't understand something a clear and straightforward as this, it's time you considered the fact that maybe the problem is you.

You haven't been honest in your posts in this thread from the start. Your first attempt to derail the topic was when you tried to draw attention away from the issue and make it about race. When that failed, you tried to make it a math problem, insisting that I give you exact percentages. So it's obvious to me that you have no interest in an honest discussion of the issue, you just want to be passive aggressive with me.

You should know better than to try that with me by now.theres nothing wrong with the substance of my posts on this issue. The problem is you talking out your ass.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Quote
Like

George K
HOLY CARP!!!
George K
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 8:24 PM - Aug 04, 2005

8:58 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #47

Larry wrote:Christianity is NOT in decline. According to Pew Research, it's growing. The mainline protestant churches are absolutely hemorrhaging members. Members are running for the exits of these churches as if they are on fire.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, being, at best, an agnostic. However, this study from Indiana University and Harvard comes to some interesting conclusions

https://www.sociologicalscience.com/dow ... 6to700.pdf
wrote:Conclusion

Voas and Chaves (2016) showed that average religiousness is declining in the United States, similar to the secularization occurring in other countries, and concluded, therefore, that religion in America is not exceptional, not “declining in a distinctive way,” (p. 1524), and “not any sort of outlier” (p. 1550). We have demonstrated, however, that only moderate religion has declined and that the intensity of Amer- ican religion is persistent and exceptional. The decline of moderate religion is not, therefore, a pervasive secularization consistent with the secularization thesis. Instead, it appears to be a reaction of moderates against religion that has become too intense, too strict, and too politicized in the face of social change (Hout and Fischer 2002, 2014; Iannaccone 1994). Therefore, although religion can gain strength by distinguishing itself from society, it needs to adjust to social change or else risk becoming too distinctive and alienating moderates (Iannaccone 1994; Schnabel 2016).

We have shown that American religion is becoming increasingly exceptional in its intensity. Rather than religion as a whole declining and fading into irrelevance— as we would expect on the basis of the secularization thesis—the political backlash noted by Hout and Fischer (2002, 2014) appears to be emptying the more moderate categories of American religion. Yes, we could call this religious change a different type of secularization, but we could also, and perhaps more accurately, call it the polarization of religion in the United States. This pattern of moderates changing and an intransigent category persisting parallels other work on social change in the United States, such as Powell and colleagues’ (2010) research on same-sex marriage attitudes: they found that moderates frequently changed their perspective, but those most opposed to same-sex marriage were less likely to change. Likewise, as American religion has become increasingly politicized, moderates have been leaving it. But the most ardently and dogmatically religious persist and now make up a larger share of those who are religious. Even as those who attend religious services sometimes shift toward never attending, there is not a decline in those who attend more than weekly—therefore, clergy are increasingly preaching to the choir.

That American religion is not becoming irrelevant or any less intense has im- portant societal implications. For many social and political issues, there is only a modest distinction between the views of the moderately religious and the non- religious but a large distinction between intense religionists and everyone else (Schnabel and Sevell 2017). The persistent intensity of American religion in con- junction with the decline of moderate religion may produce a widening cultural gulf between rising secularists and persistently intense religionists.16 Subsequently, symbolic boundaries could become more clearly demarcated as there are fewer people to bridge the cultural chasm between the most and least religious Americans. Whereas religion is simply irrelevant to many secularists in comparable societies used to illustrate the secularization thesis, secular and spiritual-but-not-religious Americans often define themselves in opposition to politicized strict religion (Lipka 2016). And although religion is simply becoming less salient in other societies, it remains important in the public sphere and central to cultural divides in the United States. Therefore, rather than following the pattern we would expect on the basis of the secularization thesis, American religion remains persistently and exceptionally intense.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


A guide to GKSR: Click


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.
Quote
Like

Klaus
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 11:45 AM - May 21, 2006

9:11 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #48

Larry, I have no need to be "passive aggressive". If I want to be aggressive, I'm just aggressive :lol2:

Look, it is by now no longer important since Jolly posted some more substantial evidence, but you just kept referring to a Pew study which is about something different than what you talk about and about a single half-sentence from Wikipedia that refers to some random text but not about empirical data. I was not talking about percentages but about evidence. As Jolly has demonstrated, it wasn't so hard to produce it. You could have avoided the whole discussion if you had just produced a corresponding link instead of berating me.
Quote
Like

Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 8:54 AM - Apr 22, 2005

9:26 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #49

And you could have avoided it by spending your time discussing the issue instead of trying to sidetrack it, and you know damned well that's exactly what you were doing.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Quote
Like

John D'Oh
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 4:52 PM - Oct 19, 2005

9:28 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #50

jon-nyc wrote:Yeah what is that ‘coming home’ sh1t about anyway? The cup just visited there once, right? over half a century ago now.
We invented the game, and the first international was in the UK. The fact that we're so sh!t at it is an unhealed and festering wound in the heart of every Englishman.

When I say 'we', I don't really mean to take credit. I think the game originated in the 8th century, and the modern rules were developed by a bunch of posh English schools in the 1800's, when the rich people needed to take time off from buggering one another and ordering the lower classes to kill the French, although not necessarily in that order.

Anyway, let's get back to WTF's obsession with whatever-the-heck it was Quirt was posting about. I have to say, it's a braver man than I am who would trade statistical analysis with the Q'ster, even if he isn't here to answer back. I'm literally glued to my seat with excitement.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Quote
Like

Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 8:54 AM - Apr 22, 2005

9:41 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #51

John D'Oh wrote:Anyway, let's get back to WTF's obsession with whatever-the-heck it was Quirt was posting about. I have to say, it's a braver man than I am who would trade statistical analysis with the Q'ster, even if he isn't here to answer back. I'm literally glued to my seat with excitement.
Well, he got his ass handed to him this time, and I did everything except send an engraved invitation to him to respond, since this forum isn't controlled by fascists like his is, and this is the only place between the two forums where a debate could be had.

Maybe you could put off being a gadfly long enough to invite him to answer back.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Quote
Like

John D'Oh
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 4:52 PM - Oct 19, 2005

10:00 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #52

What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Quote
Like

jon-nyc
HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 8:47 PM - Apr 22, 2005

10:31 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #53

I think Clint might have been more coherent.
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
Quote
Like

Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 8:54 AM - Apr 22, 2005

11:18 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #54

More coherent than Obama or squirt either one....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Quote
Like

Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

11:24 PM - Jul 09, 2018 #55

I did have to drop by and look at the thread in question. Kinda amused by the Jewish lady calling the Southern Baptists a cult. :lol2:
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Quote
Like

Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 8:54 AM - Apr 22, 2005

1:42 AM - Jul 10, 2018 #56

The stupidity of that bunch just boggles the mind.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Quote
Like

Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
HOLY CARP!!!
Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

4:28 PM - Jul 10, 2018 #57

Larry wrote:The stupidity of that bunch just boggles the mind.
They're not stupid, just blind.

Something that struck me last night...The same people who will fawn over a gay pastor of a dying denomination that no longer belives much of the Bible, will shout hallelujahs over the Christian church dying in America, especially if they think some of that may be happening to Evangelicals.

Excuse me, but is that fvcked up, or what?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Quote
Like