Not so fast on wind power....

Mikhailoh
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Mikhailoh
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9:44 PM - Oct 08, 2018 #1

It has climate impact of its own, and it is immediate.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... down-side/
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Aqua Letifer
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6:13 PM - Oct 09, 2018 #2

if such large-scale wind farms were built, would warm average surface temperatures over the continental U.S. by 0.24 degrees Celsius.
Bit of a dilemma for the global warming deniers. Either this study is correct and energy production does cause average surface temperatures to increase, or it isn't and wind energy is still superior to traditional fuels.
“Wind beats coal by any environmental measure, but that doesn’t mean that its impacts are negligible,” said David Keith, the Gordon McKay Professor of Applied Physics at the Harvard John A. Paulson School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS) and senior author of the papers. “We must quickly transition away from fossil fuels to stop carbon emissions. In doing so, we must make choices between various low-carbon technologies, all of which have some social and environmental impacts.”
The best strategy I've been able to think up is:
(1) dump a ton of money into energy R&D. But we should be doing that anyway because whatever the new oil is going to be, it's going to be a very big damn deal and we've got to stay on top of it.
(2) No one source of alternative energy is superior and this article reiterates the obvious: everything has its drawbacks. A little bit of everything is, for now, seemingly close to the best way to go.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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jon-nyc
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6:53 PM - Oct 09, 2018 #3

Re your first point it wouldn’t really be a dilemma for them because the warming from the wind turbines would just be from friction.   You could acknowledge that and still think the greenhouse effect is a Chinese hoax, or whatever it is they believe.   
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Aqua Letifer
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7:44 PM - Oct 09, 2018 #4

jon-nyc wrote: Re your first point it wouldn’t really be a dilemma for them because the warming from the wind turbines would just be from friction.   You could acknowledge that and still think the greenhouse effect is a Chinese hoax, or whatever it is they believe.   
Not really. If you compare the heat output due to friction from all the wind turbines in the U.S. and compared it to heat output due to every combustion process involving oil, the former is a drop in the bucket.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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jon-nyc
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11:48 AM - Oct 10, 2018 #5

Perhaps but that’s not the Anthropogenic global warming story.   The story is carbon as a greenhouse gas warming the entire planet, not combustion raising surface temperatures of the land.

Also note that the quarter degree increase of the surface temperature of the continental US is nothing at all like a quarter degree rise in global average temperature.
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Aqua Letifer
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12:57 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #6

jon-nyc wrote: Perhaps but that’s not the Anthropogenic global warming story.   The story is carbon as a greenhouse gas warming the entire planet, not combustion raising surface temperatures of the land.  
That's true, but I'm just accepting the premises as you're suggesting they'd be dealt. This is proof wind power is bad for the environment? Well okay, but by the same metric you're using to measure that, traditional fuels still lose big in that comparison. So even by cockamamie non-anthropogenic units of measure, criticism doesn't stack up.
Also note that the quarter degree increase of the surface temperature of the continental US is nothing at all like a quarter degree rise in global average temperature.
Yes but the U.S. doesn't have any magical geographical properties. Acknowledging heat generation from wind turbines in the U.S. leads us into talking about heat generation by other means of energy production, and then of course abroad as well as in this country. That's at least approaching the conversation.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Copper
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3:16 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #7

I like warmer temperatures.

So the tropics move a few miles north and the oceans get a little bigger, so what?

This will bring new rain forests and whole new species.

Granted they won't be democrat species but we'll just have to learn to live together.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Rainman
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5:23 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #8

It's such a joke, this global warming stuff.

If things are really warming, then everyone turn on your air conditioners and open your windows.

After about a week or two of this "cooling AC therapy," people will start biching about global cooling stuff, just wait and see.

Then, everyone could build a second front door. Leave one open -- the other closed. Even-keel. Perfect global temp everywhere.

You're welcome. And I'm not even a scientist.
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