Cosmopolitan Conservatives

Jolly
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Jolly
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Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

2:34 AM - Jul 11, 2018 #1

The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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Mikhailoh
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Joined: 1:24 AM - Apr 27, 2005

11:06 AM - Jul 11, 2018 #2

Very interesting article. Much to consider in it, and topics I have pondered privately.

The particularly telling part is that throughout the West one form or another of right leaning populism is growing. You could even include Sanders' supporters in that - what about us? We are the people - what are you doing for us?
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Aqua Letifer
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Aqua Letifer
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Joined: 5:23 PM - Sep 22, 2005

12:27 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #3

Mikhailoh wrote:Very interesting article. Much to consider in it, and topics I have pondered privately.

The particularly telling part is that throughout the West one form or another of right leaning populism is growing. You could even include Sanders' supporters in that - what about us? We are the people - what are you doing for us?
wrote:Goldberg’s book fails to recognize this populism as a long, healthy, and deeply respectable American tradition. He depicts it instead as a diseased reaction to progressivism—reactionary and crypto-fascist. Those labels apply, by the way, not just to voters who opted for Trump, but also to progressives, those who voted for Clinton.
I think Goldberg’s right about this. It has nothing to do with Trump—populism is just bad news.
wrote:In short, pretty much all those who voted in the last election—the American people—are reptile-brain reactionaries.
Taken as a whole I think it’s stupidly obvious how accurate this is. The more we go down that road, the worse it’s going to get, and populism only speeds up the journey.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Horace
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Horace
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Joined: 5:20 AM - Apr 21, 2005

1:57 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #4

pop·u·lism

noun

support for the concerns of ordinary people.

the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people.


So, what connotations has "populism" taken on which make it bad? It's clearly not bad per se.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Klaus
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Klaus
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Joined: 11:45 AM - May 21, 2006

2:03 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #5

Horace wrote:pop·u·lism

noun

support for the concerns of ordinary people.

the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people.


So, what connotations has "populism" taken on which make it bad?
Concern for ones own short-term popularity, especially with respect to the next election, being the primary driver for your decisions.

Deliberately tapping into public sentiments without having any workable solution or rational model to explain one's policy, maybe even against one's own convictions.

Being a demagogue.
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Jolly
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Jolly
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Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

2:09 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #6

Huey P. Long.

Now, go do your history lesson.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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Aqua Letifer
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Joined: 5:23 PM - Sep 22, 2005

2:11 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #7

Horace wrote:pop·u·lism

noun

support for the concerns of ordinary people.

the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people.


So, what connotations has "populism" taken on which make it bad? It's clearly not bad per se.
For starters, populism has a much broader definition than that.

And you’re right, it’s not inherently bad, but I believe it almost always leads to bad outcomes. The games the left plays right now, for example, is primarily driven by populism.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Horace
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Horace
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Joined: 5:20 AM - Apr 21, 2005

2:37 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #8

Aqua Letifer wrote:
Horace wrote:pop·u·lism

noun

support for the concerns of ordinary people.

the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people.


So, what connotations has "populism" taken on which make it bad? It's clearly not bad per se.
For starters, populism has a much broader definition than that.
Ok. Can you provide that broader definition, or point me to it?
wrote:And you’re right, it’s not inherently bad, but I believe it almost always leads to bad outcomes. The games the left plays right now, for example, is primarily driven by populism.
Identity politics and the politics of victimhood seem per se to be anti-populist, since they are about the concerns of small, well defined subsets of the population.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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Joined: 8:47 PM - Apr 22, 2005

2:48 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #9

Jolly wrote:Busy P. Long.

Now, go do your history lesson.
Pffft. Read yer Aristotle.
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
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Aqua Letifer
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Aqua Letifer
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Joined: 5:23 PM - Sep 22, 2005

3:00 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #10

Horace wrote:Ok. Can you provide that broader definition, or point me to it?
Sure. For starters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism
wrote:Identity politics and the politics of victimhood seem per se to be anti-populist, since they are about the concerns of small, well defined subsets of the population.
Well for one, they think their way forward is better society, not individuals, which is populist. Second, what they think is better is defined in terms of groups, not individuals, which is also populist. Assuming you accept that the definition is broader than what you first laid out.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Larry
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Larry
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Joined: 8:54 AM - Apr 22, 2005

3:20 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #11

Klaus wrote:
Horace wrote:pop·u·lism

noun

support for the concerns of ordinary people.

the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people.


So, what connotations has "populism" taken on which make it bad?
Concern for ones own short-term popularity, especially with respect to the next election, being the primary driver for your decisions.

Deliberately tapping into public sentiments without having any workable solution or rational model to explain one's policy, maybe even against one's own convictions.

Being a demagogue.
Odd, you just described the Democrat party.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Jolly
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Jolly
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Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

4:35 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #12

jon-nyc wrote:
Jolly wrote:Busy P. Long.

Now, go do your history lesson.
Pffft. Read yer Aristotle.
Hey, it's a damn tablet with a mind of its own.... :veryangry: :veryangry: :veryangry:
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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Mikhailoh
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Joined: 1:24 AM - Apr 27, 2005

4:37 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #13

I knew who you meant. Every damn bridge on US 90 is named for him. :lol2:
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Jolly
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Jolly
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Joined: 3:47 PM - Apr 19, 2005

4:51 PM - Jul 11, 2018 #14

Mikhailoh wrote:I knew who you meant. Every damn bridge on US 90 is named for him. :lol2:
The Longs were one of the most powerful political machines in a state that has a ton of state power invested in the Governor. That's good and it's bad. What can be good about it, are the programs put in place by a populist.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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