Frank_W
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2:17 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #41

I'm not impatient. I simply can't recall you ever having a good thing to say about the United States, Renauda. Most of the Americans here, have had good things to say about Canada, and most have expressed an interest in Russia. There has been precious little courtesy in return, and after a while, it just becomes boorish.

So yeah... If my patience seems stretched a little thin, that might be the primary reason.

I am not insisting that anyone follow "my way." In fact, most people don't have the guts or the strength, quite frankly. I don't ask that. I ask that I be treated with the same courtesy that I extend, though.

I don't think that's too much to ask. Apparently, you disagree, and that's quite a shame, really. I don't recall ever having so much as a cross word with you. :shrug:
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Renauda
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2:19 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #42

Red Rice wrote:No question the Founding Fathers had their own self-interests, but stating that they wanted to create their own aristocracy is far from the truth.
You are of course correct. They already were the colonial aristocracy....

"American leaders were the American aristocracy, men of "striking respectability and social standing." The 56 signers of the Constitution were educated men (22 lawyers, 5 doctors, 11 merchants, 12 ministers or ministers’ sons.)" [source: http://www.sagehistory.net/revolution/t ... rview.html ]

...they just weren't invited to sit in the House of Lords in London. Had George III been astute he would handed out a couple of peerages and the whole thing would have fizzled.
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Renauda
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2:38 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #43

Frank_W wrote:I'm not impatient. I simply can't recall you ever having a good thing to say about the United States, Renauda. Most of the Americans here, have had good things to say about Canada, and most have expressed an interest in Russia. There has been precious little courtesy in return, and after a while, it just becomes boorish.
Nothing personal Frank.

But you're absolutely right, I should be less boorish and better behaved here. Self deprecating even.
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Frank_W
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2:40 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #44

I'm not saying that, Renauda. :doh:

Jeez... :no:
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Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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George K
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2:42 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #45

Renauda wrote:I should be less boorish and better behaved here. Self deprecating even.
We wouldn't recognize you. You're my favorite curmudgeon.
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John D'Oh
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3:37 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #46

Renauda wrote:
Frank_W wrote:I'm not impatient. I simply can't recall you ever having a good thing to say about the United States, Renauda. Most of the Americans here, have had good things to say about Canada, and most have expressed an interest in Russia. There has been precious little courtesy in return, and after a while, it just becomes boorish.
Nothing personal Frank.

But you're absolutely right, I should be less boorish and better behaved here. Self deprecating even.
A Canuck with attitude is a wonderful thing.

After all, why deprecate oneself when there are so many richly deserving targets?

:lol:
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Claude Ball
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4:43 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #47

wrote:After all, why deprecate oneself when there are so many richly deserving targets?
I deprecated on myself once, but I wudn't aiming at no target. That's why I deprecated on myself - there weren't no target handy...
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Red Rice
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6:12 AM - Mar 28, 2009 #48

Renauda wrote:You are of course correct. They already were the colonial aristocracy....

"American leaders were the American aristocracy, men of "striking respectability and social standing." The 56 signers of the Constitution were educated men (22 lawyers, 5 doctors, 11 merchants, 12 ministers or ministers’ sons.)" [source: http://www.sagehistory.net/revolution/t ... rview.html ]

...they just weren't invited to sit in the House of Lords in London. Had George III been astute he would handed out a couple of peerages and the whole thing would have fizzled.
Educated <> aristocracy. Meritocracy is more like it. None of the Founding Fathers believed that they should be permanently ensconced members of a ruling class with political power passing to their heirs; the very idea would have been anathema to them (excepting perhaps Alexander Hamilton).

None of them were angling for a seat in the House of Lords either. But... had they representation as Members of Parliament, many of their grievances would have been addressed.


Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

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xenon
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8:41 PM - Mar 28, 2009 #49

I'm not defending Obama's response to the whole situation, I don't much like it myself, but I find one of her quotes kinda curious:

"It won't be our children and grandchildren that are in debt. It is we who are in debt, we who will be bankrupting this country, inside of ten years, if we don't get a grip. And we can't let the Democrats achieve their ends any longer."

Where were her calls for revolution when Bush was pushing massive tax cuts while expanding government spending?
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Mikhailoh
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8:49 PM - Mar 28, 2009 #50

Renauda wrote:This talk of a immanent revolution in the USA is hysterical nonsense.

A more plausible scenario would be a military coup along the lines of Julius Caesar that leaves the trappings of an elected and effective legislative branch and independent judiciary intact.
Y'know, Ren - that is one thing I do worry about, although I don't lose sleep over it. For the first time in my life I feel like we have a president who, if he gave an order the military deemed unwise, might be disobeyed.

Obama is a smart guy and may rise to the job - I hope so. But I have seen no clear evidence of that as of yet. It may simply be that he will pay for the state of the nation at the time he took office.
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QuirtEvans
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8:53 PM - Mar 28, 2009 #51

Mikhailoh wrote:
Renauda wrote:This talk of a immanent revolution in the USA is hysterical nonsense.

A more plausible scenario would be a military coup along the lines of Julius Caesar that leaves the trappings of an elected and effective legislative branch and independent judiciary intact.
Y'know, Ren - that is one thing I do worry about, although I don't lose sleep over it. For the first time in my life I feel like we have a president who, if he gave an order the military deemed unwise, might be disobeyed.
Never, ever happen.

Because he's picked people the military respect in his command structure, and because Powell and Shinseki are on his side.

It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
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8:55 PM - Mar 28, 2009 #52

I suspect if it did happen, we would not hear about it for many years. But I disagree with you that it could never happen. The poor guy has walked into a pretty precarious perch.
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Larry
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5:18 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #53

QuirtEvans wrote:[Response to Larry, because I agree with Red Rice]

At the end of the day, it's a democracy. We are a nation of laws, and of rules.

You and others felt this way before the election, and you screamed it at the top of your lungs. The majority felt otherwise, and elected Obama, despite your concerns. It's awfully hard to square your views about "domestic enemies" with a democracy ... I could just as easily have said that I felt Dick Cheney was a domestic enemy. At some point, the one who wins a validly-held election can't be treated as a domestic enemy.

Either we respect our system of government, or we don't. If we don't, I wonder if anyone will like the next form better.
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Especially his last sentence, considering how he's singing the opposite tune now...


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