Sam's Role in the Mytharc/Show

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Sam's Role in the Mytharc/Show

Sparkle
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Sparkle

09 May 2011, 14:47 #1

I stumbled across this thread on cw message boards last night and found it interesting. becuase some of what the original poster said is what iv been feeling for awhile. This is by no means a dean bashing thread, as i love him to pieces. But I do feel like sam gets back burner last season and this season. its more cas and dean show it seems. Many fans are upset about an interview Ben edlund did when he said that dean was teh heart of the show, but quickly corrected himself saying that Dean and Sam both were.

I agree to some extent , face ti Dean is funnier at times and play his emotions excelelnt. just kinda sad that sam, well mostly jared doesnt get chance to shine. Any thoughts?

http://lounge.cwtv.com/showthread.php?t=731633



We have changed the title on this thread to make it clearer as to what is being discussed. The original title was Has Sam Been Forgotten. So if you are looking for that thread--this is it!

Also just a reminder that in this thread you are allowed to discuss spoilers. So those who don't want to be spoiled should be forewarned.

:)

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markie
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007, 13:46

09 May 2011, 15:14 #2

Yes :)


What can I say ..


The interesting thing to me is how when Souless Sam came along the writers found they could write for Sam..


Now I have enjoyed season 6 for the most part but is there really that much of a issue to write for a souled Sam to a Souless one ?..
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bezy4
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bezy4
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09 May 2011, 16:09 #3

I know my thoughts will be knocked down cause this thread will become just what you wished it wouldn't, a chance for Sam fans to knock down the Dean character.

I read the post and I seriously could not believe what I was reading. For any fan of this show to say Dean didn't care about Sam the SECOND he found out he was alive must be watching another show then I am. Episode 6-1 when Sam told Dean he didn't come to him cause he knew Dean wanted his apple pie life, what was Dean's response..."I wanted my brother alive", ya he didn't care about him then. Episode 6-2 at the end Dean chose Sam over staying with Lisa and Ben, why would he do that if he didn't care? Every episode after that Dean's focus was on his brother, something wasn't right, did Dean walk away when he found out why his brother wasn't right? No he found out he had no soul so what does this "uncaring" brother do? He goes to freakin Death to get his brothers soul. That is amazing to me and so cool, if that doesn't show the utmost brotherly love, what does? When Death puts the wall up and Dean knew what could happen if Sam picks at it, he does EVERYTHING is his power to keep Sam from doing it, but Sam is Sam and he picks and looks what happens.

As for Dean not showing his anger towards Cas when he found out about what he has done, I think Dean showed plenty of anger and I am sure we will see more, it was towards the end of the show so he didn't get alot of time to do it. I want to go on and vent cause this has me so angry, I have stopped posting on all boards cause of the hatered I see towards Dean (and Sam, just not as nasty), why can't people just enjoy the show and not anylize every little scene and stop worrying about whose getting the better lines or more screen time.

I'm sorry but I don't see what this poster sees, and I truly believe its because she/he sees nothing but Sam/Jared when she watches Supernatural.

Bottom line....Since season one, Dean has been about protecting/caring about Sam, and now we are in season 6 and Dean is still trying to protect Sam (the wall)
and he CARES, he truly does, just as much as Sam cares for him. That is what I see when I see these brothers. I think Jensen and Jared would say the same thing.

I will go back to lurking now cause I think my blood pressure is up and I need to be healthy in two weeks to watch this amazing finale!
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mc2
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mc2
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09 May 2011, 16:37 #4

bezy4 @ May 9 2011, 08:09 AM wrote: For any fan of this show to say Dean didn't care about Sam the SECOND he found out he was alive must be watching another show then I am.
Don't know about any other threads or boards - and wouldn't bring it here if I did - but no one in this thread said Dean didn't care about Sam.

Sparkle is referring to how Sam is written not to how Dean (or Cas or Bobby or anyone else) feels about Sam. Sparkle - correct me if I'm wrong....
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mags
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mags
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09 May 2011, 16:58 #5

I have no problems with the way Sam has been written or how he has been presented in the last two seasons. The only issues I ever had was with season 4 and I still can't talk about it without shuddering.
As for anything Dean related, I think even this last episode with Cas and how Dean reacted, I think it was obvious that Sam is and always was his number one priority but thats another discussion.
I havent read the link nor have I even read the posts above me, I have no interest in getting involved but I just wanted to say that no I don't think Sam has been forgotten. I am loving this season. Just like I loved last season.
Oh had to add, Jared doesnt get a chance to shine?? My god especially these last two seasons Jared has blown everyone out of the water with the way he has portrayed Sam. He has been given the chance to play so many different aspects to Sam along with Lucifer all of which he did beautfully. I think Jared has had major oppertunity to shine and for me he has.
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Sparkle
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Sparkle

09 May 2011, 17:05 #6

mc2 @ May 9 2011, 11:37 AM wrote:
bezy4 @ May 9 2011, 08:09 AM wrote: For any fan of this show to say Dean didn't care about Sam the SECOND he found out he was alive must be watching another show then I am.
Don't know about any other threads or boards - and wouldn't bring it here if I did - but no one in this thread said Dean didn't care about Sam.

Sparkle is referring to how Sam is written not to how Dean (or Cas or Bobby or anyone else) feels about Sam. Sparkle - correct me if I'm wrong....
you are right :)

and carefully guys i havent sen the last 2 eppies yet so i cant really say anything about it iv just heard things

but, no I know dean loves sam and he s the most important person in his world. As i said im just dissapointed wiht who sam is being written and how hes back burner compared to dean and cas show. Its funn becuase Ben edlund has alwasy been great with sams character and is pretty much onyl writer who ever writes him as should be, nwo it seems hes more....I suppsoe dean centric and cas centric.
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sammycat
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007, 01:00

09 May 2011, 17:45 #7

I just want Castiel gone gone gone now. I also mean, no Jimmy or human!Castiel next season riding in the back seat there either. I was hoping Ben Edlund was leaving this season along with Jeremy Carver, but it wasn't to be so. I did enjoy the Fairy episode a lot, as it was pretty funny and Soulless Sam at least got some attention. But why don't these writers like Sam here, they are Sam's creators. Make Sam into a character they want to write for. Or hire some actual fans of the show who at least pay attention to continuity, since no one seems capable of remembering beyond the episode they are currently writing.


This isn't about whether or not Dean is a good or a bad brother, but why Sam is the Forgotten Brother, on a show that everyone keeps saying is about Family. Forgetting Sam's emotional life, blowing off his mytharc, or using his mytharc to bash his character, are all damaging and utterly poisonous to the idea that SPN is truly about family. Right now, it seems like family is whatever you want it to be, which in this episode, turned into yet another excuse to blow off Sam's character and HIS heart. This is inherently ANTI-FAMILY AND FAMILY BASHING in its nature. Unless Sam matters equally with Dean in all areas of emotional follow through, this show is just lying to itself. I can't relate to Dean and I've never been able to relate to Dean. That means I NEED Sam to be paid attention to so I have someone I relate to on the show.


People have been complaining about Sam's treatment by the writers since John died in season 2. Why haven't the writers cared, ever, about fixing their mistakes? They just go on and on and on, trashing Sam and thinking we won't notice and that it won't matter. Jared Padalecki was practically genius this season, and this is his reward from the writers? Almost no lines anymore? Gee, how did that happen? Why would adding a group dynamic to the show result in more Dean and less Sam? That makes no sense whatsoever. Did someone complain about Jared getting too much of the spotlight all of a sudden, because it makes no sense that this happened in the last 6 episodes of the season. It is hugely unfair to Jared, who has certainly been at the top of his game since season 3 here. If Jared is going buggy on set, maybe it's because he's never been given enough to do. I wonder if the producers have ever thought of that when they write so little for him to do as Sam.



Oh had to add, Jared doesnt get a chance to shine?? My god especially these last two seasons Jared has blown everyone out of the water with the way he has portrayed Sam. He has been given the chance to play so many different aspects to Sam along with Lucifer all of which he did beautfully. I think Jared has had major oppertunity to shine and for me he has.


You are right here, Mags, but a lot of that has been with Sam in the form of other characters or on demon blood, not Sam as Himself. I think this is whereth our butt hurt doth lie. On the treatment of regular, normal Sam on this show and just simple lack of access to his inner life. It makes the whole series feel like one lost opportunity of exploration after another and it's just a sad shame that no one cared enough to even try maintaining Sam's character issues. They need to put energy and focus into Soulled Sam the same as they did with Soulless Sam. It looked like they were doing this until this last batch of episodes.
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moncitymom
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Joined: 24 Aug 2009, 00:19

09 May 2011, 20:03 #8

I will give my two cents and hope I don't offend anybody. :)

I think that the writers have done an execellent job in writing for all the characters. They have done over 100 episodes for crying out loud. There of course will be some that are better than others, Kripke said it himself at the Paley festival. Can't we give them a break? :)

As far as writing for Sam, I don't have a problem, I think they have kept him in character. Remember he is the younger brother, the diffient (sp?) one, hard headed, always questioning, the "let's talk this out" one. He has had alot thrown at him in his years and I really think after John died Sam saw things different. He grew up, with the help of Dean to lean on. And when Dean went to Hell, Sam was obviously at the end of his rope, hopeing for anything to make it better, unfortunitly Ruby was there. He did the best he could and hind sight is always 20/20, but I feel he has redeemed himself and I think everybody in his life knows that. He is not Dean. He will be written different than Dean and I think Jared does an execellent job with Sam. Just like nobody could ever take Jensen place in the role of Dean Winchester, I don't believe anybody could take Jared's as Sam Winchester. The are both these characters, I could not see it any other way.

I would like to get into the the whole business of "this show is the most anti-family show", but I'm afraid I will be edited and it will do nothing to change the posters mind anyhow, so I will leave it as agreeing to disagree. :D Oh and I also will have to disagree with the statement about BE and JC, IMO they are wonderful writers and feel they do both boys justise.

Final note....I just wish that we all good just enjoy the goodness of this show and not keep a score card on the writing. As I have said before, there is no other show on tv that can come close to the writing on this show. So I'm just going to enjoy it and pray that the J's will keep lovin what they are doing to give us at least 4 more seasons!!

:)
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Allie Padalecki
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09 May 2011, 20:40 #9

I agree with what you said, sammycat.

But i also think that we, the sammy girls and the fans of Sam and Dean as brothers and their relationship since season 4, we started to be part of a very small group.
I always perceived that Jensen Ackles, through his fame and through his larger fandom - already created from Days of our lives, Dawson's Creek and Dark angel and so on - that the Supernatural team, with time, realized that Jensen is and always was, comparing with Jared, a very good source of money, a strategic way to rise the ratings.

So, that's why they created the angels storyline, because they wanted a way to attract more Jensen Ackles fans to the show, giving more attention to the public favorite.

I don't want to be pessimistic here, but Jensen Ackles has a very larger fan base and the writers will continue to give more importance to Dean character over Sam's and consequently, Dean relationship with Castiel, a relationship that goes against the concept of the first three seasons and against the value of Sam and Dean relationship as brothers, a relationship that for some, still continues to be the true essence of the show.

I don't know if the writers visit this forum or not, but if they do, it seems that they don't give to much importance about what the fans of Sam Winchester think, because until today, some of your thoughts still remain unfulfilled.

I had some male fans of Supernatural that after season 3, they stopped watching this show, because by their own words, this show has only men and no women. This show is the worst show they know, the only one that has a nonexistent female cast - a very nonstrategic way to attract male public btw and more ratings to the show - and even worse, the generality seem to prefer a homosexual relationship over a sibling relationship (In Spoiler Tv, we have a poll with the topic "Favorite Tv ROMANCE competition, in which, btw, dean and castiel were the winners) Link: http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/05/favour ... n-new.html

So, i don't know what we, the Sam Winchester and the sibling relationship fandom have to do, but i do not have much hope concerning to the angels storyline and their connection with Dean. Ben Edlund said it all: "dean winchester is the true heart of the show". OK, he corrected himself after that, but i believe that Ben Edlund believes more in the first part of his sentence :)

Sorry if i said something unauthorized in this post. It's only my opinion ;)

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markie
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007, 13:46

09 May 2011, 20:54 #10

Dean and Castiel being up for that poll sums up some of this fandom..

Romantic what exactly in fanfic fine but in the show? but now we have profound bonds and you are like a brother to me and do we blame some believing that Dean and Castiel are the most important relationship on the show for them?..

I dont know if Sam has been forgotten by the writers in a sense maybe? his emotional well being seems to of been..

People say Dean deserves a relationship/ friendship outside of Sam I wouldnt argue that but surely then so does Sam ..

If Ben is more interested in the Dean and Castiel relationship then fix the problem by giving Sam a character outside of all of this so he doesnt look like the goosberry in the middle ..
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Raven524
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Raven524
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09 May 2011, 22:13 #11

Just a quick heads up. The topic is fine and we appreciate the restraint members are using in this thread to not turn it into a Sam versed Dean discussion.

That being said, there have been a few posts that are veering more into discussing Dean/Jensen, Castiel/Misha and/or the show in general. This includes discussing the 'fans'.

The topic is to discuss whether or not Sam has been forgotten, so please lets keep to that topic.

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Annie2
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09 May 2011, 22:15 #12

Funnily enough I think that I have seen more of Sam last season and this one than in the previous two! I wasn't too sure about Souless Sam but it did give Jared a chance to shine - however I am glad to get the 'real' Sam back and don't feel like he has been ignored.

I think we are building up to something and I enjoyed the last episode far more than I thought I would. It was Cas centric but it made my stomach clench with the tension - and Sam's hurt little face when he found out Cas raised him was enough to make me want to weep...

I do believe that Dean has always been the 'narrator' character if you will and I do think we see a lot of what happens through his eyes - but Sam is our Greek Chorus - he is OUR guide to the Supernatural world - he is the one who always wanted to be normal and isn't able to be - he is like a lot of us and we can relate to him. Dean is the 'hero' in broad terms and Sam is our link to the real world.

I don't think Sam has been forgotten - I think Sam and his soul will come to the fore towards the end of this season and I think we will be left - as per usual - with more questions than answers!!

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Jo1027
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Jo1027
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Joined: 17 Feb 2010, 20:05

09 May 2011, 22:33 #13

Allie Padalecki @ May 9 2011, 08:40 PM wrote: I agree with what you said, sammycat.

But i also think that we, the sammy girls and the fans of Sam and Dean as brothers and their relationship since season 4, we started to be part of a very small group.
I always perceived that Jensen Ackles, through his fame and through his larger fandom - already created from Days of our lives, Dawson's Creek and Dark angel and so on - that the Supernatural team, with time, realized that Jensen is and always was, comparing with Jared, a very good source of money, a strategic way to rise the ratings.

So, that's why they created the angels storyline, because they wanted a way to attract more Jensen Ackles fans to the show, giving more attention to the public favorite.

I don't want to be pessimistic here, but Jensen Ackles has a very larger fan base and the writers will continue to give more importance to Dean character over Sam's and consequently, Dean relationship with Castiel, a relationship that goes against the concept of the first three seasons and against the value of Sam and Dean relationship as brothers, a relationship that for some, still continues to be the true essence of the show.

I don't know if the writers visit this forum or not, but if they do, it seems that they don't give to much importance about what the fans of Sam Winchester think, because until today, some of your thoughts still remain unfulfilled.

I had some male fans of Supernatural that after season 3, they stopped watching this show, because by their own words, this show has only men and no women. This show is the worst show they know, the only one that has a nonexistent female cast - a very nonstrategic way to attract male public btw and more ratings to the show - and even worse, the generality seem to prefer a homosexual relationship over a sibling relationship (In Spoiler Tv, we have a poll with the topic "Favorite Tv ROMANCE competition, in which, btw, dean and castiel were the winners) Link: http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/05/favour ... n-new.html

So, i don't know what we, the Sam Winchester and the sibling relationship fandom have to do, but i do not have much hope concerning to the angels storyline and their connection with Dean. Ben Edlund said it all: "dean winchester is the true heart of the show". OK, he corrected himself after that, but i believe that Ben Edlund believes more in the first part of his sentence :)

Sorry if i said something unauthorized in this post. It's only my opinion ;)
So, that's why they created the angels storyline, because they wanted a way to attract more Jensen Ackles fans to the show, giving more attention to the public favorite.


If that is the case, it's backfired because the number of fans dropped from earlier seasons, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And my answer to the first poster is yes. In my eyes Sammy has been relegated to the backround since the first episode of season 4. The writers did the character a great disservice by not showing the fans how Sam felt about the things that were happening to him and the things he was doing. All we ever got to see was Dean's view of what was happening. In a lot of ways I feel this is he biggest reason for the split in the fandom between the brothers and also the reason why so many Sam fans feel as if the writers don't care about Sam. We got only one flashback in season 4 showing what Sam was doing. And it was never really talked about agan.

As you can see by the posts, only the Sam fans feel cheated. Dean's been front and center so the Dean fans are okay with how Sam has been portrayed.

This is not a knock on Dean. I'm just pointing out what I see and how I interpret it.
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Raven524
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09 May 2011, 22:46 #14

I just wanted to clarify as maybe the first warning was not clear. This is not a thread to discuss how fans should or should not feel about any of the characters, including Sam.

For the record, if you read the Dean Myth Arc thread or a few other threads, you may find that many Dean fans are also not happy with the way his character is written. The truth is some Dean fans and some Sam fans feel slighted by the writers.

That is perfectly fine and you can discuss why you feel that way about Sam in this thread. But please, do not keep making generalized statements about the fandom, about the posters or how people should or should not feel as from this point on those posts will be automatically edited and the poster will receive a warning.

Thank You

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Swordstress
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09 May 2011, 22:47 #15

I saw this topic title and thought the CW poster was being facetious, then I came inside and think it might not be. I agree Dean got the forefront in S4, but since S1 and S2 were about Sam's journey, I thought that was fine. S5 I thought was fairly evenly divided between both guys, the casualty of the season being the Apocalypse theme, which got neglected for some very uneven storytelling.

As far as Sam being forgotten this year, well, Sam's soullessness was the driving story during the first part of the season, with nearly every interview and article before the mid-season finale being about Sam's soullessness. We got introduced to the Campbells and the Alphas, but those stories fizzled in the face of the soulless issue. That was okay, since Sam's more important. I just wish they'd picked those up later. Prior to the winter premier, pretty much every media article was speculating on whether Sam would have his soul back, whether Death had done his job, etc. And since every interview Sera and Kripke have done about the finale has been about Sam's situation, I don't believe anyone can seriously contend Sam has been neglected this year. One may not like the storyline given Sam or the season, but that's another issue. :)

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