Is Sam The Stronger Brother

Discuss season 9 as it airs in the U.S. and Canada. NO SPOILERS IN THIS FORUM.

Is Sam The Stronger Brother

hansolo
Woman in White
hansolo
Woman in White
Joined: 25 Jun 2008, 07:15

19 Oct 2013, 01:43 #1

Dean's recent inclusion of Kevin into the family of hunters and angel makes me think Dean has more of a need to have someone with him at all times as he hunts. The 1st episode where Sam asks Dean why he cannot find their father alone and Dean says 'yes I can, but I don't want to' through the seasons where Dean looks to the passenger seat when Sam is not there or when Castiel bails on him mid-conversation. Even the backstory, where Sam mocks Dean for his total obedience to their father, Dean shows his co-dependency and fear of being alone.

Dean puts up the tough guy persona, but I think he is the more needy/weaker brother and even though he constantly wants to throw punches or talk tough, I think he is compensating for major insecurities. Not to play junior psychologist...
Two brothers, backs against the wall, fighting for family and for each other- set against a world of evil where danger lurks everywhere and only their guns, their Impala and their 70's rock give them the strength to fight on!
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Jaytee
Advanced Member
Jaytee
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013, 03:52

19 Oct 2013, 02:40 #2

Ooooh, you're poking a dragon with that question.

I don't know that I'd say Dean is "weaker" than Sam (do you have an issue with Dean? You have another critique of him in another post). I think ages ago-- around S4 -- Jared mentioned that Sam really is quite needy himself, but he does't wear it on his sleeve as much as Dean does. Looking through that lens explains a lot of Sam's S4 and S5 behaviour. A lot of what he did was at first a reaction to Dean's death, then a reaction to the perception that Dean was rejecting him over his powers (and the demon blood addiction didn't help matters).

Sam is more independent than Dean now to be sure, and I think it's because of everything that happened to him in Season 4 and 5. He learned what could happen if he let grief get the better of him, which is one of the reasons why he tried to move on while Dean was missing. He didn't want to go back down the same road he was on in S3 and S4, willing to tear up the planet to bring Dean back (he didn't literally know he was doing this, but I think he realized in S5 how much his grief had played into his decisions, and the disastrous results).

Dean never had that lesson to the same extent. The destructive things he would do in the wake of Sam's death(s) were personally destructive to him (and his friends and family, but he wasn't thinking about that), but not destructive on a literally global level like Sam's actions. On top of that, Dean's always held and over-developed sense of responsibility to well, everyone, but especially to Sam. His actions when they're separated aren't about simply missing Sam, but also fueled by his sense of failing or letting Sam down by "letting" something happen to him (with which Sam would heartily disagree).

On the other other hand, one can interpret Sam as trying TOO hard sometimes to strike out on his own. He seems to vacillate between being completely being stuck to Dean or entirely estranged from him. This suggests that Sam is less comfortable with being on his own than he'd like to be, and he feels the only way he can maintain it is to stay away from Dean entirely. But that's textbook co-dependency for you.
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Jaytee
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Jaytee
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Joined: 05 Aug 2013, 03:52

19 Oct 2013, 02:43 #3

I realized I really focused the above on the brothers without going into others in their circle. Sam does not seem to rely on others as much as Dean (which is a bit of a ranting topic for some fans, as he's never WRITTEN connecting to anyone else). He does tend to be more reserved than Dean, but I don't know if that's necessarily a strength.
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alysha
Shapeshifter
alysha
Shapeshifter
Joined: 13 Aug 2008, 01:38

19 Oct 2013, 13:14 #4

Dean and Sam are different...neither stronger nor weaker. Dean represents the feminine and Sam the masculine...neither better or more preferred. [though in society it seems the feminine is seen as inferior....dumb ass society].

It can be argued that Dean is a pack oriented animal, a wolf.

Sam is a loner, maybe a lion.

Both are strong.
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Dreamboat2
Shtriga
Joined: 27 Feb 2009, 15:14

19 Oct 2013, 15:41 #5

The "tell" of the show is that they want you to believe Dean is inferior to Sam. He isn`t special, he is not smart enough, he is often mocked etc.

However, I tend to go the opposite way if a writer is too blatant in trying to make me turn against (or to) a certain character. Even if they are a lot more subtle than they do it here. And the "show" doesn`t really back up their "tell" in my eyes. Not to mention Jensen is too good not to overcome the writing to some degree.

Being someone who wants companionship and likes working with others is not in itself a bad or good trait. So Dean being such a person doesn`t make him "weak" to me. I believe he CAN do it alone, he just, as he said, doesn`t want to.

As for his role in the family growing up, the peacekeeper actually is the hardest role. Remove them and see how the two feuding parties consume themselves in a very short manner of time. I believe Dean knew that and it showed his strength in taking himself back to assume this role.

Does the character have tendencies that make me wanna bang my head against the table? You bet. But I do believe he has the potential to overcome them.
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percysowner
Advanced Member
percysowner
Advanced Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2010, 04:30

19 Oct 2013, 15:57 #6

The "tell" of the show is that they want you to believe Dean is inferior to Sam. He isn`t special, he is not smart enough, he is often mocked etc.
And we totally disagree on this. If Dean trusts a supernatural creature, the creature is always either good and transformed by the goodness of Dean. Dean's part in the Apocalypse has been thoroughly forgotten. When Dean declares something is bad it is bad. When he declares something is good it is good. When he talks Sam into believing what he believes and then changes his mind, he is right to change and Sam is wrong. I'm talking about how in season one we were supposed to believe that Sam wasn't being fair to John. Come season four Sam has finally come to terms with the idea that John wasn't so bad and Dean switches gears and announces that Sam being like John is a horrible terrible thing because now DEAN doesn't like John and Sam had better keep up here. Everyone talks to Dean and understands his manly and never ending pain. No give a damn about what Sam is going through because Dean is so wonderful that if he's in pain, Sam's doesn't matter one little bit. Dean gets the never wrong, perfect edit. Sam gets the screw up edit.

You see Dean as being painted as inferior. I see it as at least giving Sam SOME redeeming qualities, since the show is all about how bad Sam is to Dean and how Dean is the only one whose needs are important.
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Dreamboat2
Shtriga
Joined: 27 Feb 2009, 15:14

19 Oct 2013, 16:09 #7

Dean gets the never wrong, perfect edit. Sam gets the screw up edit.
Switch their names around and you have my view of the show down to a T. Which I think is also the writer`s view. Obviously, the end result is so jumbled, both sides can be unhappy.
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markie
Vampire
Joined: 07 Jun 2007, 13:46

19 Oct 2013, 16:10 #8

Dreamboat2 @ Oct 19 2013, 03:41 PM wrote: The "tell" of the show is that they want you to believe Dean is inferior to Sam. He isn`t special, he is not smart enough, he is often mocked etc.

However, I tend to go the opposite way if a writer is too blatant in trying to make me turn against (or to) a certain character. Even if they are a lot more subtle than they do it here. And the "show" doesn`t really back up their "tell" in my eyes. Not to mention Jensen is too good not to overcome the writing to some degree.

Being someone who wants companionship and likes working with others is not in itself a bad or good trait. So Dean being such a person doesn`t make him "weak" to me. I believe he CAN do it alone, he just, as he said, doesn`t want to.

As for his role in the family growing up, the peacekeeper actually is the hardest role. Remove them and see how the two feuding parties consume themselves in a very short manner of time. I believe Dean knew that and it showed his strength in taking himself back to assume this role.

Does the character have tendencies that make me wanna bang my head against the table? You bet. But I do believe he has the potential to overcome them.
Dean does perfectly fine..

He is not a character who has past mistakes held over his head like it is the norm..

Certainly Dean can get mocked so can Sam but also the show tells his strengths ...


And they were clearly visable in both the premiere and this week's episode ..

His judgement is rarely called into question and those associated with him are proven to be exactly what Dean judge them to be ..

And the chances are Ezekiel will be the same as it was Dean's choice to allow him to possess Sam..


I might feel that Dean is treated inferior if that was the case but I do not believe it is..


Dean's co-dependancy on Sam has never been Sam's fault and Sam is the one treated poorly by both fans and within the writing because he did not act the same...


Dean is a flawed human being but with traits that give him weakness's and strengths..
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mc2
Vampire
mc2
Vampire
Joined: 13 Apr 2006, 02:56

19 Oct 2013, 16:17 #9

Dreamboat2 @ Oct 19 2013, 07:41 AM wrote: The "tell" of the show is that they want you to believe Dean is inferior to Sam. He isn`t special, he is not smart enough, he is often mocked etc.
I disagree. I think the most compelling evidence is in 9.01 when Dean call on the angels for help healing Sam. I don't have the exact quote, but Dean says that whoever helps Sam will earn Dean's help and that "ain't no small thing". That to me shows that Dean & the writers (because.. ah... Dean isn't able to think separate from the writers... :P ) value Dean. Dean is often the one who can think outside the box and come up with a solution that no one else was able to figure out.

What really confuses me is why we're even comparing the brothers? Why does either one have to be "weaker" or "stronger"? They both have times when they rely on the other for support and they both times when they support the other. They both have strengths and weaknesses and those change over time. The show is realistic in that respect - my opinion of course.
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