Afraid Of Tears??

Discuss season 6 as it airs in the U.S. and Canada. NO SPOILERS IN THIS FORUM.

Afraid Of Tears??

Celticwench
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Celticwench
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21 May 2011, 18:31 #1

It occurred to me as I watched the finale that although there has been ample reason for tears from virtually all the characters...there have been none.
All season the guys have been oddly detached emotionally....I figured that eventually there would be some sort of cathartic scene or two by the finale...but, no.

I'm not particularly one of those who thinks "the best parts are when they cry"...but on the hand, I just find it weird that they were so restrained with so much intensity happening around them.
The actors are super as always but it felt frustrating for me to watch opportunities for some catharsis or at least a bit of venting pass by over and over...all in favor of yet more plot, it seems.
Maybe it's just my silly Irish nature--needing to see more emotion...?
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privateparts
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privateparts
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21 May 2011, 19:30 #2

There was lots of emotion are you kidding me? I guess if your setting the bar as "if they don't cry they aren't expressing emotion" then yeah, I guess there as no emotion...

Guys are guys, they don't cry at the slightest provocation, and this is Sam and Dean we are talking about, hardened, veteran monster killers.

Maybe some tears as Dean was walking away from the mind-wiped Lisa and Ben would have been nice, but you could see it on his face anyway.

There was lots of Dean and Castiel moments nearing the end of the season where they both looked on the verge of tears as well.
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Celticwench
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21 May 2011, 19:43 #3

True enough, "guys are guys"...but alot of the appeal that these guys have is that they weren't really "hardened"---we saw them feel intensely---and now they seem rather generic, for lack of a better term.
Typical TV heroes who don't show us much of what they feel...
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bjxmas
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21 May 2011, 21:09 #4

No one does tears better than Jensen, with Jared gaining all the time.

I expected tears, but seeing how there has been a backlash against Jensen and his emo moments from some factions of fans, it doesn't surprise me that they went in another direction.

I love Jensen's acting and he brings the emotion whether Dean full-on cries, sheds that manly single tear, tears up, or stoically holds back and the emotion plays out in the subtle facial twitches and within those expressive eyes that can never deny the weight upon him and the cost his life inflicts. :cloud9

Jensen is such an amazing and courageous actor, opening himself up and revealing the tenderness within. Few are able to do that without coming off as forced or contrived. I think Jensen is further maturing as an actor and trying new things. He is trying to go against expectations and frankly the expectation here was that he would let loose with all the emotion in a big defining moment. I would have loved that...

But I also love what we got. I think maybe Dean was in survival mode, shell-shocked and trying to hold on. They did have a big crisis at hand and in the past, his most emotional moments came after the danger had passed, when he and Sam had time to pull to the side of the road and have that heart-to-heart talk.

I always want more. And I'm always all about the emotion and the personal journey the guys are on. The monster/end of the world stuff is fun and exciting, but that's not what draws me to the characters and makes me care so deeply. :cloud9

I love watching Jensen take Dean through all the loss and worry and seeing how he chooses to portray that. It is always fascinating and real to me. And totally heartbreaking. :cry

Here it was stealthy, sneaking up on you and letting the weight of each additional hurt pull him down just a little more. I certainly hope at some point the pressure creates a leak and the tears finally come. They are cathartic and Dean needs that. But for now he needed to remain strong and vigilant.

That moment went he went against his personal fears for Lisa and continued the exorcism knowing that she would probably bleed out were extraordinary. A defining moment for Dean.

I most love how Jensen balances the opposing influences in Dean's life, balancing on that tightrope between the vulnerable and the strong. We didn't see any of the hurt little boy in the finale, but he is still there...waiting for something to trigger him and bring him back into the light from the depths that Dean has shoved him.

For the moment Dean is steeled to fight the good fight. I'm hoping we get more emotion from him if he is forced into a showdown with Cas. He cares for Cas like a brother and that is going to be emotionally devastating. Losing Lisa and Ben and then losing Cas might do it. And then we have the fear for Sam... Sam always at the forefront of Dean's care and worry.

B.J.

:hug


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kiwijenjarefan
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21 May 2011, 21:31 #5

bjxmas @ May 21 2011, 09:09 PM wrote: No one does tears better than Jensen, with Jared gaining all the time.

I expected tears, but seeing how there has been a backlash against Jensen and his emo moments from some factions of fans, it doesn't surprise me that they went in another direction.

I love Jensen's acting and he brings the emotion whether Dean full-on cries, sheds that manly single tear, tears up, or stoically holds back and the emotion plays out in the subtle facial twitches and within those expressive eyes that can never deny the weight upon him and the cost his life inflicts. :cloud9

Jensen is such an amazing and courageous actor, opening himself up and revealing the tenderness within. Few are able to do that without coming off as forced or contrived. I think Jensen is further maturing as an actor and trying new things. He is trying to go against expectations and frankly the expectation here was that he would let loose with all the emotion in a big defining moment. I would have loved that...

But I also love what we got. I think maybe Dean was in survival mode, shell-shocked and trying to hold on. They did have a big crisis at hand and in the past, his most emotional moments came after the danger had passed, when he and Sam had time to pull to the side of the road and have that heart-to-heart talk.

I always want more. And I'm always all about the emotion and the personal journey the guys are on. The monster/end of the world stuff is fun and exciting, but that's not what draws me to the characters and makes me care so deeply. :cloud9

I love watching Jensen take Dean through all the loss and worry and seeing how he chooses to portray that. It is always fascinating and real to me. And totally heartbreaking. :cry

Here it was stealthy, sneaking up on you and letting the weight of each additional hurt pull him down just a little more. I certainly hope at some point the pressure creates a leak and the tears finally come. They are cathartic and Dean needs that. But for now he needed to remain strong and vigilant.

That moment went he went against his personal fears for Lisa and continued the exorcism knowing that she would probably bleed out were extraordinary. A defining moment for Dean.

I most love how Jensen balances the opposing influences in Dean's life, balancing on that tightrope between the vulnerable and the strong. We didn't see any of the hurt little boy in the finale, but he is still there...waiting for something to trigger him and bring him back into the light from the depths that Dean has shoved him.

For the moment Dean is steeled to fight the good fight. I'm hoping we get more emotion from him if he is forced into a showdown with Cas. He cares for Cas like a brother and that is going to be emotionally devastating. Losing Lisa and Ben and then losing Cas might do it. And then we have the fear for Sam... Sam always at the forefront of Dean's care and worry.

B.J.

:hug
Aw, bj. You did it again. :cry :bow
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Celticwench
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21 May 2011, 21:31 #6

BJ, So nice to read your lovely post.
I guess I wasn't really aware of the "backlash" about Dean being "emo". What a shame....you are so right about Jensen's tears----One knows they're genuine and that makes each such scene astoundingly effective....

I hope the writers decide to allow Dean and Sam both to open up again emotionally next season. It isn't just tears...I think we need to see down and dirty convos as we have in the past.... :)
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goofyape
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21 May 2011, 21:46 #7

As a guy I never expect tears from men characters on TV---but when I do see them I feel very touched---if they're done genuinely.
BJ, you are right about Jensen---and Jared as well--both those dudes can pull it off.
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bjxmas
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21 May 2011, 22:30 #8

Celticwench @ May 21 2011, 09:31 PM wrote: BJ, So nice to read your lovely post.
I guess I wasn't really aware of the "backlash" about Dean being "emo". What a shame....you are so right about Jensen's tears----One knows they're genuine and that makes each such scene astoundingly effective....

I hope the writers decide to allow Dean and Sam both to open up again emotionally next season. It isn't just tears...I think we need to see down and dirty convos as we have in the past.... :)
Sadly the backlash comes mainly from those who feel that Dean's emotions either weaken the character or that it makes Dean the focus and steals the light from their fav character. It is sad that some feel that way, especially considering how very open and vulnerable it makes Jensen to do those scenes. I'd hate for him to ever hear criticism when he is so gloriously courageous.

Dean's emotional scenes where he breaks down resonate like none other. :wub:

I too hope for more of the vulnerability and closeness of the brothers as they share their innermost thoughts and hurts. Those moments when they truly connect on an emotional level make their bond that much deeper and touching. :cloud9
As a guy I never expect tears from men characters on TV---but when I do see them I feel very touched---if they're done genuinely.
BJ, you are right about Jensen---and Jared as well--both those dudes can pull it off.
I totally agree, Goofy! Even when Dean first cried, I was so shocked and touched by it, by seeing inside this strong man that we all knew felt deeply and yet it was so unexpected to actually see and feel it. I think only thru Jensen's amazing ability to totally open up did the writers see the possibilities and hence, we got more emotional depth from our fearless hero than ever before seen with a TV character. And it works because there is both raw truth in the pain Dean is experiencing and then such real emotion coming from Jensen that we totally believe and care even more.

Sadly, now the bar is placed so high for any other actors attempting to portray deep emotional pain and actually cry on camera. I've actually cringed in sympathy for some actors that I like on their respective TV shows and yet when they try to go there...they fail. And I am left imagining how Jensen would have made me believe. How Jensen would have left me an emotional wreck from his portrayal of pain and suffering.

Which leads me to another tantalizing thing about Jensen's ackting. The ability he has to go smaller, more intimate, to go softer, which only makes the emotions scream louder.

So many actors would choose to wail, to flail about and make it huge and hence more powerful (one would think). Instead Jensen internalizes to the point that Dean gets quiet and the emotion just seeps out. It comes from his core and devastates you. :cry

B.J.

:hug


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Celticwench
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22 May 2011, 20:52 #9

"...comes from his core.."---isn't that the truth, BJ....and great way to describe how Jensen's genuine emotion IS so amazingly touching! Jared as well!

I really hope we see those core emotions next season...the actors are brave enough---let them loose :)
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SicFi Girl
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24 May 2011, 01:23 #10

I really thought it diminished Sam's characterization when we weren't allowed to see him actually wake up and acclamate to being "back" - to see him struggle to pull it together and then start on his way. I would have liked to see him struggle between the almost uncontrollable anguish of being bombarded with all the pain, memories and even guilt from his time soulless fighting and the need to put it aside (to deal with later) so he could get to Dean. He should have been stumbling, falling on the ground, puking, trying to get up, being overwhelmed ready to give in, pulling himself together and standing up - I mean it could have been so dramatic to the point of being heartbreaking and dare I say pathetic, to see him wake up so alone and dealing with all of that - and at the same time a fitting fight for our hero as he pulled himself together long enough to get to Dean. There has been so much anticipated angst about if the wall came down that it felt to me a little too fast, with a glossing over of the emotional journey of our hero as he made his decision and came back to himslf.

I know the boys are tough, and Sam seemed to get hard and stop crying after Dean died. But the fact is even big tough men cry. They might not turn on the tears as fast as women, but they're not as stoic as they would like people to believe either.

So for Sam at least, we should be seeing a lot of tears- everything from uncontrolled wailing, to bouts of quiet depression with silent tears as Sam as he comes to terms with his hell memories. I wouldn't see this as catharctic like so many say, but an expression of overwhelming grief and emotional pain at the recovery of horrific memories. I would expect on top of that sleepless nights, alcohol abuse, flashbacks, fear of losing control, moments of fear, perhaps even confusion as he is trying to distinguish reality from memories. In other words, Sam should be a basket case and I hope they portray that in all its glory.

They probably won't though. <_<
Sam's Samminess is His Empathy

Dean's Happiness is a Warm Puppy
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bjxmas
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24 May 2011, 01:44 #11

I agree, SicFi Girl, we probably won't see it, just like we never got the further development into Dean's PTSD and the fallout from him becoming a torturer in Hell.

I love what show tried to do with Dean...that they actually went there and allowed him to break from the torture and pick up that blade. His emotional breakdown when he confessed to Sam what he did was such a real moment, totally heartbreaking. But then they dropped the ball.

I know Supernatural can't portray all the emotional fallout and years of recovery that being subjected to Hell would demand. And I know that some only want their heroes bold and brave and able to conquer all...but there is realism and then there is totally unrealistic.

The boys both need more resolution from their time in Hell. Dean drinks excessively and shoves it all down. But eventually it needs to come out. I would still absolutely love an episode where something triggers the memories or the feelings and he fractures and breaks a little and has to face up to all his terrors. I've been hoping for that ever since S4 and it appears I'll keep hoping.

I'll admit Sam's face off against his memories and his triumph was a bit of a let down considering all the dire predictions of him being turned into a bowl of jello. I loved the confrontations and how he took on the memories and fought his way back. Loved that he had to do it because he wasn't going to leave his brother out there alone. But it was a bit/a lot unbelievable because regardless of how strong both our guys are, they are still human.

And they feel so deeply that both guys should have issues simply for what they did to others. The guilt and the regret has got to be enough to drive them into some emotional response at some point.

I'm hoping that maybe they'll have them both confront their hell experience and maybe together they can work their way thru. After all, who else can they talk to who would understand? Who else has survived Hell and lived to tell the tale?

B.J.

:hug


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Celticwench
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24 May 2011, 19:30 #12

YES, SciFI Girl and BJ----that's what I'm talking about!!
There is simply far too much realistic emotional fallout and emotional journey that has been glossed over in favor of plot or copping out .

By copping out, I mean giving in to the generic notion that TV heroes need to be not-human and oh-my-let's-not-get-too-real with the feelings!

We see quite enough of that in other [mediocre] shows--- I do not expect it from this one!!
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SicFi Girl
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25 May 2011, 01:42 #13

Celticwench @ May 24 2011, 07:30 PM wrote: YES, SciFI Girl and BJ----that's what I'm talking about!!
There is simply far too much realistic emotional fallout and emotional journey that has been glossed over in favor of plot or copping out .

By copping out, I mean giving in to the generic notion that TV heroes need to be not-human and oh-my-let's-not-get-too-real with the feelings!

We see quite enough of that in other [mediocre] shows--- I do not expect it from this one!!
Especially when the show did so well in the first season making the boys so realistic -

For instance: Remember in Phantom Traveler how Dean held the cell phone up to both their ears, and Sam got shaken up at hearing his fathers voice at such a vulnerable time, after he hadn't spoken to him for years. You could tell he was holding back tears and trying to be tough at the same time. Very realistic. And in Home when Dean and Sam were talking about "that night" and Dean was almost crippled with emotional fear at the thought of going back to Kansas and he's calling his dad for help. (There was a cut scene too where he punched the wall after he hung up.) ---- that was all very realistic and showed the boys as so alone and human. Their reactions were genuine. Stuff like that happened a lot in S1.

We don't have that kind of depth anymore - especially with Sam's portrayal. I don't know why they stopped. I can see that they are more hardened after what they've been through, but no-one is that tough. :(

I think the difference is that originally the show was character driven and now it's plot driven. I preferred it the other way. I think sometimes in the desire to be cute or smart or meta, the show loses a lot of depth and tears are a part of that.
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Celticwench
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25 May 2011, 02:03 #14

Yes, SciFi Girl---exactly!!
Depth has been lost and I think we are not alone in wanting it back!

It's not that I don't appreciate the other stuff---it's fine---but not at the expense of being character driven, as you point out. Then it becomes like any other show.

I can also think of myriad other examples from season 4, especially, where things were far more realistic and affecting...
Hmmm...just thought of something---seasons 1 and 4 are Jensen's faves... :)
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bjxmas
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25 May 2011, 02:39 #15

I think we are missing Kim Manners. :cry

Kim was the heart of Supernatural. He always said the core of the show was the emotional depth and bond of the brothers. Everything else was the framework to examine their relationship. The other stuff was fun and exciting, but the heart of the show was how the boys related to each other and to their lives.

He was the one who convinced Jensen to do that scene in Shadow where he grabs the dresser and confesses to Sam that the reason he came and got him was because he wants them to be a family again.

Jensen resisted, thought it revealed too much, too soon. But Kim was right and that was the emotional depth of the show.

I think the writers were on a high that first season, seeing how the actors brought that depth to the characters and how they could show more and get more.

They have teased us since, giving us intriguing glimpses inside and then pulling back and delving more into the plot and mytharc. And possibly they realized how hard it was to continue down that road, how it is a delicate balancing act between strong and weak, heroic and scared. I think our writers and actors are up to the challenge, they just need to boldly go there again.

It is a balancing act and it is terrifying to portray heroes with frailties and faults. But when done right, which Supernatural has done in the past...it takes them to such extraordinary heights.

Yes, I want them to push the boundaries and show that real heroes cry. Real heroes feel pain and want to give up. Real heroes hurt.

Then we can admire them even more for doing the heroic thing even when it costs them, even when the emotional toll is unbearable.

I want them to take me on that journey...more than they have lately. I miss it.

B.J.

:hug


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