Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 29th, 2013, 1:52 am #11

Jeff Walling and all of the Post-Bible trained preacherlings promotes the role of WOMEN in all of the ROLES in the church.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Women ... istry.html

The SILENCING of all men and women is based on the PATTERN established by the Spirit of Christ in the prophets.

You cannot SELL the free water of the Word. Therefore there is no preaching staff, junior preaching staff, youth minister staff, musical worship staff nor any staff.

The command is to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. The leaders of the Synagogue explained only terms not clearly understood.

All of the not-commanded STAFF of the Jewish etal monarchy and especially the musicians are called PARASITES. That's the best word I can find on my good days.
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 10:19 pm

January 30th, 2013, 4:28 pm #12

The Church of Christ doesn't operate based on what is best for the job status of the various staff members but is bound and constrained by the love of Christ to act according to the word of God.

Consider the three men in Daniel who said to the highest power of the land they would not serve an idol and would not worship the official gods set up by mans government. Thats our measure of success, not how many people attend and how much we take in the treasury. Its not about mens measure of success but of being faithful to Gods word.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 4th, 2013, 12:47 am #13

SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling Instrumental Music in Worship. The problem with preachers getting their information from other preachers intent on converting them is that they never get around to reading the story line and defining words. Jesus said that parables had hidden the truth from the Scribes and Pharisees from the foundation of the world. He called them hypocrites (actors) by referring to the Ezekiel version byChrist who named slick speakers, singers and instrument players.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Jeff Walling Winterfest 2013 Denies that Scripture replaces BEING LED BY THE LORD. The leaders of this effort claim that they expose YOUR youth to lots of musical bands TO TEACH THEM TO LEAVE YOUR MOVEMENT.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html




The Mark of the Beast

http://www.piney.com/The.Mark.of.The.Beast.html


Jeff Walling may have been the first to INTRUDE into a lecture to say that INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC is not condemned for the church.

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Atchley.Chris ... usion.html

We understood the frog-boiling process which takes one of those VISIONS and about a decade to go INSTRUMENTAL which is radically condemned in the Bible and by all recorded history until the Disciples-Christian churches outed the PSALLO word to justify the deliberate sowing of discord to become INSTRUMENTAL or musical sectarians.

There is no reason that they should rest on the WORD but on their own hallucinations that a spirit person is leading them

Rick Atchley: The era of the progressive Church of Christ is over.

Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.

The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
.....They never heard the sermons we heard.
.....They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
.....with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
.....We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


And the elders snooze on

</font>
I am not sure of the meaning of the SIGN that a few people have been enticed to sow massive discord among people who have never in recorded history from the Church in the wilderness onward ever used instrumental music and irrationally calling it WORSHIP.

The Spirit OF Christ defined the future assembly both inclusively and exclusively. He especially warned against the effeminate smiters and pluckers in Isaiah 50.

http://www.piney.com/Isaiah.50.Smitten.Plucked.html

This is always a warning against the rise of the Mother Goddess Worship: the BEAST being "a new style of song or drama."

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 4th, 2013, 5:46 pm #14

SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling Instrumental Music in Worship. The problem with preachers getting their information from other preachers intent on converting them is that they never get around to reading the story line and defining words. Jesus said that parables had hidden the truth from the Scribes and Pharisees from the foundation of the world. He called them hypocrites (actors) by referring to the Ezekiel version byChrist who named slick speakers, singers and instrument players.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Jeff Walling Winterfest 2013 Denies that Scripture replaces BEING LED BY THE LORD. The leaders of this effort claim that they expose YOUR youth to lots of musical bands TO TEACH THEM TO LEAVE YOUR MOVEMENT.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html




The Mark of the Beast

http://www.piney.com/The.Mark.of.The.Beast.html


Jeff Walling may have been the first to INTRUDE into a lecture to say that INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC is not condemned for the church.

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Atchley.Chris ... usion.html

We understood the frog-boiling process which takes one of those VISIONS and about a decade to go INSTRUMENTAL which is radically condemned in the Bible and by all recorded history until the Disciples-Christian churches outed the PSALLO word to justify the deliberate sowing of discord to become INSTRUMENTAL or musical sectarians.

There is no reason that they should rest on the WORD but on their own hallucinations that a spirit person is leading them

Rick Atchley: The era of the progressive Church of Christ is over.

Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.

The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
.....They never heard the sermons we heard.
.....They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
.....with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
.....We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


And the elders snooze on

</font>
The Mark of the Beast

http://www.piney.com/The.Mark.of.The.Beast.html
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on February 4th, 2013, 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 5th, 2013, 3:56 am #15

SEE how Jeff Walling told the NACC how he TRANSISTIONED HIS church to instrumental "worship" after the NACC transistioned Jeff Walling

http://www.piney.com/NACC.Transitioning ... ental.html

Thou has Turned My Mourning into Dancing. Perhaps by God's design, they didn't read enough to understand that this is the GENDER mark well documented by Christ in Isaiah 3.

http://www.piney.com/Thou.hast.turned.m ... ncing.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God One

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Two

http://www.piney.com/worship11.html

Jeff Walling Daring to Dance with God Three

http://www.piney.com/worship12.html

Jeff Walling Instrumental Music in Worship. The problem with preachers getting their information from other preachers intent on converting them is that they never get around to reading the story line and defining words. Jesus said that parables had hidden the truth from the Scribes and Pharisees from the foundation of the world. He called them hypocrites (actors) by referring to the Ezekiel version byChrist who named slick speakers, singers and instrument players.

http://www.piney.com/Jeff.Walling.Instr ... Music.html

Jeff Walling Winterfest 2013 Denies that Scripture replaces BEING LED BY THE LORD. The leaders of this effort claim that they expose YOUR youth to lots of musical bands TO TEACH THEM TO LEAVE YOUR MOVEMENT.

http://www.piney.com/Winterfest.2013.Comments.html




The Mark of the Beast

http://www.piney.com/The.Mark.of.The.Beast.html


Jeff Walling may have been the first to INTRUDE into a lecture to say that INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC is not condemned for the church.

http://www.piney.com/Rick.Atchley.Chris ... usion.html

We understood the frog-boiling process which takes one of those VISIONS and about a decade to go INSTRUMENTAL which is radically condemned in the Bible and by all recorded history until the Disciples-Christian churches outed the PSALLO word to justify the deliberate sowing of discord to become INSTRUMENTAL or musical sectarians.

There is no reason that they should rest on the WORD but on their own hallucinations that a spirit person is leading them

Rick Atchley: The era of the progressive Church of Christ is over.

Back in the 80s you could go to any major city, especially in the South, and you could find a progressive Church of Christ and if they would preach grace, and if they would put words on a screen, and if they would let divorced people place membership, they would grow.

The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that theyre going to find the least legalistic

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
.....They never heard the sermons we heard.
.....They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
.....with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
.....We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


And the elders snooze on

</font>
Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. In the Ezekiel 33 example Christ names performance preachers for pay, singers and instrument players. The message was that people who do not listen to GOD'S words with the intention of obeying what they hear are NOTHING MORE than theatrical performers. That is what is called WORSHIP SERVICES as in contrast to A School (only) or Christ (only) in the Prophets and Apostles. That is the ONLY thing that you can use to BUILD ON. Otherwise, your strawy songs and sermons will be baptized with FIRE.

Jesus refused to speak to them other than through parables from the foundation of the world. Jesus also said that God HIDES from the WISE: they are the sophists meaning self-preachers, singers, instrument players or actors. That's why they cannot grasp that they are the BEASTS and they MARK others by connecting ritualistic worship to being FOR or TO God.


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February 5th, 2013, 5:29 am #16

The Lord said to Jeremiah,

Jeremiah 7:2 Stand in the gate of Jehovah's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of Jehovah, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship Jehovah. 3 Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. 4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah, are these. 5 For if ye thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye thoroughly execute justice between a man and his neighbor; 6 if ye oppress not the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your own hurt: 7 then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, from of old even for evermore.

8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. 9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods that ye have not known, 10 and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered; that ye may do all these abominations? 11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen it, saith Jehovah. ASV


These verses show that "impressive" worship does not excuse abuse, injustice, oppression, and shedding of blood outside the place or worship. For the true worshipper, teaching within the church must address the need for activities that occur outside. When behavior of the Christian outside the place or worship is consistent with the claims made inside the building, then we have worship in Spirit and in Truth. "Grace" exclude any of us from keeping the Word of God. Neither does the "Spirit" imply that the Word of God be forsaken.
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AM
AM

February 6th, 2013, 2:10 pm #17

Nice verse! Do you realize this is not Christ? This was well before Christ arrived on the earth to give us that Godly example. Are you trying to contrast what Christ did to what Jeremiah was talking about? Christ gave us an example of worship and it differed from what we see in the old Testament specifically the passage you sited. Of course we can heed the words from Jeremiah, but is that Christ like?

Please expand your point for discussion.
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February 6th, 2013, 4:50 pm #18

AM, I provide some detail across dispensations. Here's a roughly equivalent set of verses from Matthew 23:23-24

Mathew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel! ASV

Justice, mercy, and faith are emphasized here, and these parallel the sins that Jeremiah pointed out in his chapter 7. You might read the entire 23rd chapter of Matthew to get a fuller picture. The first 12 verses of Matthew chapter 12 are also helpful. There Jesus says "I desire mercy and not sacrifice [alone]." The "laws" of the new kingdom bring in human compassion, not just content-less worship. The intent of my original post was to emphasize futility to develop modes of worship that some think will "save" the church. [In fact, the lesson I heard this past Sunday treated the people in the church like they were the problem, not those outside the church! According to this lesson, the church is the problem, not the world! It appears that "hubris" (pride) is rampant in today's church, and it is scattered unevenly across generations. There has been so much mockery in the secular press, that many in the fellowship may have picked up that negative attitude, unfortunately. Instead of conciliation with more traditional members, instead there is a "holy war" or "jihad" taking place right in our midst. Younger preachers need to understand that point of view, or they will continue to lose more members.]

This timeless, dispensation-free, principle that Jeremiah announces during the reign of Josiah, 600 years before Christ, extends on down through Christ and then to Paul. Temple worship even in its purest form is no substitute for the moral life. The "tithe" is used in Matthew 23 is to be taken as a metaphor for the giving under the post-Pentecost age, the time of the church. Paul says that in the Christian age the "house" of God is the people of faith:

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God's fellow-workers: ye are God's husbandry, God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder I laid a foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let each man take heed how he buildeth thereon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Continuing on, Paul says that the disciples are God's sanctuary, and that they should be holy--holy not just in worship, but also in their life-styles. Lesson on moral behavior can be learned very well when they understand the church is a "school of Christ." Learning takes place through posture, expression, insinuation, direct words, and dress.

1 Corinthians 3:16Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man destroyeth the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, and such are ye.

Today's church must consist of our portraying the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). "Against such things there is no law (verse 23)."
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AM
AM

February 7th, 2013, 3:17 pm #19

These are good thoughts. I have not read any of your other dispensations, because I visit this site when I am not traveling. But I will go back and read some of your other thoughts.

I agree with the futility of the modes some are trying to develop to save the Church. It does appear that their efforts are only "skin deep" and leave a larger "empty spots" for those searching for salvation. What sickens me is the churches that search for employees and offer jobs to those that have never set foot in a Church of Christ. I laughed at a guy that said that this was his first time in a Church of Christ service and I asked if he would be there when the money runs out. Sad that he does not see that his motivation is secular and not for the love of Jesus. I guess even sadder that elderships look for eligible employees for church jobs, not spiritual people that want to do the work of the Lord.

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February 7th, 2013, 10:58 pm #20

I would suggest that previous to Moses there was a "Patriarchal Dispensation."

At the giving of the Law until Christ, it is safe to refer to a "Mosaical Dispensation."

Moses' law ceased to be the ruling law during the exile, and Israel never followed it very well--read about their rebellion in the northern Kingdom (Israel) and to a less extent in the southern kingdom (Judah). The Maccabees apparently tried to institute Moses in the centuries preceding Christ, and prevailed for short periods of time, but with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and the great tribulation during this period, many either lost their lives of fled from Judea, and this contributed to the "diaspora" or "scattering" of Jews to other lands. Actually there were two or three temples, the one built by Solomon in late 10th century (destroyed about 586 BC), the one erected after the exile in early 5th century, and that same one enhanced by Herod the Great in first century BC (destroyed in 70 AD).

The Christian Age is the "Christian Dispensation."

There are others that refer to other dispensations but these are more controversial. These include many televangelists. "Dispensational" teachers refer to these televangelists. Traditionally in Churches of Christ, dispensation is limited to Patriarchal, Mosaical, and Christian dispensations. Otherwise the Bible appears to contain multiple directions. "Rightly dividing" the word of God helps us to understand teachings much better.

The temple was the place of worship during the "Mosaical Dispensation" although it was not built until the time of Solomon. The Law of Moses preceded the temple by several hundred years, and we could assign the writing of that law to anywhere around the 15th century BC, although there is a wide number of opinions about the date.

The temple was completed by Solomon in the latter part of the 10th century (later years in century 900 BC). So Moses Law ruled several hundred years before there was a temple. Surely, as AM says, the temple laws apply to the Old Testament people, and we learning in Acts 17 that God does not dwell in temple made with hands. Jesus showed that the temple would not have one stone standing on another, predicting the destruction of the temple, and suggesting that a barren fig tree must be cut down. That is the old Mosaic and temple system, had produced little fruit, and as a result a new "dispensation" was about to begin. Actually since the Old Law was imperfect it was necessary for another age to come, the Christian age.

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