Dave
Dave

November 3rd, 2011, 2:04 am #41

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them,
....Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it
....unto one of the least of these my brethren,
....ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
....Depart from me, ye cursed,
....into everlasting fire,
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred,
....and ye gave me no meat:
....I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

http://piney.com/Matthew.25-40.Ye.Have. ... to.Me.html

Because in Amos, the people had David's musical performance IN the temple Christ prophesied that their songs in the temple would be turned into howlings.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
....that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread,
....nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
....they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Christ in Isaiah had the same warning about those who used musical instruments in their religious festivals:

Isaiah 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine,
....are in their feasts: [religious festivals]
....but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity,
....because they have no knowledge:
....and their honourable men are famished,
....and their multitude dried up with thirst.
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself,
....and opened her mouth without measure:
....and their glory, and their multitude,
....and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Sublimis: B. In partic., of language, lofty, elevated, sublime (freq. in Quint.): sublimia carmina, Juv. 7, 28: verbum, Quint. 8, 3, 18: clara et sublimia verba, id. ib.: oratio,
Action versus Submission.

Carmen I. In gen., a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental. Oratory.
II. Esp., a composition in verse, a poem; poetry, verse, song, whether in a broader sense, of every kind of poetic production, epic, dramatic
With allusion to playing on the cithara: [guitar]


Don't be surprised that people WANT you to be deceived.</font>
Minion was used, by you, as being slanderous and derogatory in nature.
Nothing more....
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 3rd, 2011, 4:13 am #42

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]What an insult!!! That man has designated a group of elite musicians (singers) as God's "PRAISE" team.

What about God's congregation? Hmmm! Nope, not good enough to be members of that team? The members of the congregation are not part of the team? That's correct, according to the Worship Leader's musical standards. Otherwise, a 1500-member congregation should EACH have his/her own MICROPHONE -- you know, just like the choir members do.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 3rd, 2011, 4:29 am #43

Minion was used, by you, as being slanderous and derogatory in nature.
Nothing more....
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]What an insult!!! That man has designated a group of elite musicians (singers) as God's "PRAISE" team.

What about God's congregation? Hmmm! Nope, not good enough to be members of that team? The members of the congregation are not part of the team? That's correct, according to the Worship Leader's musical standards. Otherwise, a 1500-member congregation should EACH have his/her own MICROPHONE -- you know, just like the choir members do.[/color]
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Joe Spivy
Joe Spivy

November 3rd, 2011, 3:53 pm #44

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

You are partially factual. Only the first part of your assertion is factual -- that "the church of today DOES teach what the first century church did 2000 years ago." That's because virtually all churches of Christ comprise that body of believers.

The New Testament church that the Bible speaks about did not/does not indulge in mechanical music to "worship" and entertain God, did/does not have a choir, has never been given by Christ its founder the office of "Worship Leader" -- of course, through time, He gave apostles, prophets, evangelists and elders (like you--supposedly).

Your own congregation for whom you serve as an elder seems like a conservative church to me. But as an elder, you would rather have those extraneous, unnecessary, divisive activities and tendencies practiced in your own congregation. It may be time for you to let your congregation and fellow elders know that you are here arguing for the change agents and their cause.

The few congregations transformed by the change agents operating in the brotherhood have either become associated with the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination or acquired by the Community Church. But that's the path they have chosen.

I'll take my word back from earlier. You have yet to learn a lot about the change agents that you are following, as well as about the Community Church Movement.

The more you speak, the more progressive/liberal you sound -- anything goes with you, Dave, and there's no stopping or limit as to how innovative you are with the truth ... so, it's all authorized by God, right, Dave?[/color]
In a recent post you mentioned:

The few congregations transformed by the change agents operating in the brotherhood have either become associated with the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination or acquired by the Community Church. But that's the path they have chosen.

In our part of the country we have not witnessed any churches make such transitions or choosing such a path. However, we also do not have any "mega" churches. Would you, or someone else, be able to mention one or two of the churches that have become associated with the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination? The Disciples have a long history here but appear to be weak and in decline. My thanks to anyone who is able to provide this information.
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

November 3rd, 2011, 4:06 pm #45

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]What an insult!!! That man has designated a group of elite musicians (singers) as God's "PRAISE" team.

What about God's congregation? Hmmm! Nope, not good enough to be members of that team? The members of the congregation are not part of the team? That's correct, according to the Worship Leader's musical standards. Otherwise, a 1500-member congregation should EACH have his/her own MICROPHONE -- you know, just like the choir members do.[/color]
Keep majoring in the minors Donnie. You are good at that! One microphone does not bother you but 2 or more do. You are a small-minded person.

Fred Whaley
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 4th, 2011, 1:37 am #46

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred,

Maybe. A small-minded person who clearly sees the destructive ways of the change agents -- damaging and dividing the church of Christ ... WITHOUT His permission. These change agents methodically follow their game plan of gradualism, progression and subtlety.

Here's the game plan by the change agents to conquer with the least resistance and eventually acquire a congregation of the church of Christ -- employ a "Worship Leader"; train an elite group of musicians (singers) as the "Praise Team"; and go from there. Mission accomplished -- when the congregation has accepted and begun mechanical music in the assembly.

Yes, the change agents have mastered their scheme -- start out with MINOR matters.

The is nothing "minor" about the 1500-member congregants holding and using [or performing with] an individual microphone each. By the way, that was for illustration purposes to test the depth of your thinking prowess. Think, Fred, isn't everyone "supposed to be praising"? If the Praise Team members are indeed "praising" with their microphones, why shouldn't the regular members do the same? Illustration.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 4th, 2011, 6:41 am #47

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them,
....Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it
....unto one of the least of these my brethren,
....ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
....Depart from me, ye cursed,
....into everlasting fire,
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred,
....and ye gave me no meat:
....I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

http://piney.com/Matthew.25-40.Ye.Have. ... to.Me.html

Because in Amos, the people had David's musical performance IN the temple Christ prophesied that their songs in the temple would be turned into howlings.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
....that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread,
....nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
....they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Christ in Isaiah had the same warning about those who used musical instruments in their religious festivals:

Isaiah 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine,
....are in their feasts: [religious festivals]
....but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity,
....because they have no knowledge:
....and their honourable men are famished,
....and their multitude dried up with thirst.
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself,
....and opened her mouth without measure:
....and their glory, and their multitude,
....and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Sublimis: B. In partic., of language, lofty, elevated, sublime (freq. in Quint.): sublimia carmina, Juv. 7, 28: verbum, Quint. 8, 3, 18: clara et sublimia verba, id. ib.: oratio,
Action versus Submission.

Carmen I. In gen., a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental. Oratory.
II. Esp., a composition in verse, a poem; poetry, verse, song, whether in a broader sense, of every kind of poetic production, epic, dramatic
With allusion to playing on the cithara: [guitar]


Don't be surprised that people WANT you to be deceived.</font>
From Joe Spivy's post above, "Churches to Disciples of Christ" (November 3 2011, 11:53 AM):
In a recent post you mentioned:

The few congregations transformed by the change agents operating in the brotherhood have either become associated with the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination or acquired by the Community Church. But that's the path they have chosen.

In our part of the country we have not witnessed any churches make such transitions or choosing such a path. However, we also do not have any "mega" churches. Would you, or someone else, be able to mention one or two of the churches that have become associated with the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination? The Disciples have a long history here but appear to be weak and in decline. My thanks to anyone who is able to provide this information.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Joe,

Thanks for the question. A great question!!!

It will take some time to find sources that indicate certain congregations of the church of Christ that are now associated or affiliated with either the Disciples/Christian Church or the Community Church. But as a quick reference for now, here's one link that can provide an insight to Rick Atchley and the former "Richland Hills Church of Christ" [n.k.a. "The Hills Church of Christ"]. It's an article titled: "RICK ATCHLEYS SPEECH AT THE RESTORATION UNITY FORUM."

http://www.christianity-then-and-now.co ... w_023.html

While I'm at it, let me provide links to the Willow Creek Association of Community Churches:

http://www.willowcreek.com/ (Click "Membership"; click "Find a WCA Church")
http://www.willowcreek.com/membership/profilesearch.asp
http://www.willowcreek.com/membership/S ... &denom=COC

I just did a generic search [last link above] of "Church of Christ" in Texas that have affiliated themselves with the Willow Creek Association of Community Churches. I found these:

-- Farmers Branch Church of Christ Farmers Branch, TX
-- Glenwood Church Of Christ Tyler, TX
-- Golf Course Road Church of Christ Midland, TX
-- Lake Highlands Church Dallas, TX
-- West Houston Church of Christ Houston, TX

I hope this helps.[/color]
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

November 4th, 2011, 7:36 pm #48

Donnie are you suggesting that Jesus has removed the lampstand from these churches or could you tell the rest how much time Jesus will give them to repent before he would remove the lampstand and stop considering them the church? The brethren need to be clear on whether these groups are churches with a lampstand or are no longer churches with lampstands or are churches in the process of losing their lampstand. Please be specific and do not toy with answering by opinion. If you can only provide your opinion then say such. If you do not know if these are churches in the eyes of Jesus Christ then be vewy vewy caweful.

Fred
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Dave
Dave

November 5th, 2011, 12:01 am #49

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them,
....Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it
....unto one of the least of these my brethren,
....ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
....Depart from me, ye cursed,
....into everlasting fire,
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred,
....and ye gave me no meat:
....I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

http://piney.com/Matthew.25-40.Ye.Have. ... to.Me.html

Because in Amos, the people had David's musical performance IN the temple Christ prophesied that their songs in the temple would be turned into howlings.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
....that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread,
....nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
....they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Christ in Isaiah had the same warning about those who used musical instruments in their religious festivals:

Isaiah 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine,
....are in their feasts: [religious festivals]
....but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity,
....because they have no knowledge:
....and their honourable men are famished,
....and their multitude dried up with thirst.
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself,
....and opened her mouth without measure:
....and their glory, and their multitude,
....and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Sublimis: B. In partic., of language, lofty, elevated, sublime (freq. in Quint.): sublimia carmina, Juv. 7, 28: verbum, Quint. 8, 3, 18: clara et sublimia verba, id. ib.: oratio,
Action versus Submission.

Carmen I. In gen., a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental. Oratory.
II. Esp., a composition in verse, a poem; poetry, verse, song, whether in a broader sense, of every kind of poetic production, epic, dramatic
With allusion to playing on the cithara: [guitar]


Don't be surprised that people WANT you to be deceived.</font>
Donnie, the bit about the microphones CONTINUES to make you look petty minded with a double standard. The praise team sometimes employs a microphone just as a single song leader does. If the praise team doesn't need them then neither does your traditional song leader. The microphones has nothing detrimental to do with Praising God. That comes from you because you don't like the songs.....or the clapping....or the lifting of holy hands....or the amens. The song leader and praise team use microphones that so people can hear their parts (bass, tenor, alto, soprano). Four part harmony that the traditionalists love.....know what I mean?
You continue to strain....and strain....and strain.
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Dave
Dave

November 5th, 2011, 12:09 am #50

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them,
....Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it
....unto one of the least of these my brethren,
....ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
....Depart from me, ye cursed,
....into everlasting fire,
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred,
....and ye gave me no meat:
....I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

http://piney.com/Matthew.25-40.Ye.Have. ... to.Me.html

Because in Amos, the people had David's musical performance IN the temple Christ prophesied that their songs in the temple would be turned into howlings.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
....that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread,
....nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
....they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Christ in Isaiah had the same warning about those who used musical instruments in their religious festivals:

Isaiah 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine,
....are in their feasts: [religious festivals]
....but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity,
....because they have no knowledge:
....and their honourable men are famished,
....and their multitude dried up with thirst.
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself,
....and opened her mouth without measure:
....and their glory, and their multitude,
....and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Sublimis: B. In partic., of language, lofty, elevated, sublime (freq. in Quint.): sublimia carmina, Juv. 7, 28: verbum, Quint. 8, 3, 18: clara et sublimia verba, id. ib.: oratio,
Action versus Submission.

Carmen I. In gen., a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental. Oratory.
II. Esp., a composition in verse, a poem; poetry, verse, song, whether in a broader sense, of every kind of poetic production, epic, dramatic
With allusion to playing on the cithara: [guitar]


Don't be surprised that people WANT you to be deceived.</font>
You knew that your choice of words..."minion".....was slanderous.....and you act like Bill Clinton in covering it up.
Good show!
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