Why I lost faith

Why I lost faith

Confused
Confused

September 13th, 2013, 5:01 am #1

I grew up in church and still go. I am attempting to bring my child up that way too. I was always a lukewarm Christian so I decided for the first time at 26 to read bible cover to cover. I did, but had more questions than answers so I read it again. Even more questions. Then one night while reading Genesis to my son, I totally felt like I was lying to him. I want to believe what it says because it would be easier, but nothing about it makes sense. It makes more sense that we as people want more than anything to have meaning, and for our children to have meaning. We don't want to tell them or believe ourselves that death is it. While I don't rule the possibility of God out, I do not believe anything that happened in the Old Testament. While evolution is not a fact, it is more likely than a world wide flood with animals from all over coming to a boat. While the Big Bang is not a fact, it is more likely than a 6000 year old earth. The gospels were written 30 years or later after the fact. It would not be impossible to make things up with a gap that large. While I believe in belief, and I want to believe, I can't. My sons Christian school is even teaching evolution and billion year time scales because Christian scientist have not come up with any scientific evidence that works.

If you choke on a steak do you ask for prayers or the hiemlech?

If science is so wrong, how does GPS work?
How did they send a rover to Mars, or send a craft outside the solar system(in about the time they projected)?

If there were one or two examples, I would not have lost faith. But from the little I know, I can think of hundreds of examples.

So the question I have is how do you here believe when it makes as much logical sense as Santa?

A couple of stories that I don't get:
Golden calf- why did Moses have Levites kill everyone and then promote Aaron, the ring leader, to high priest?
Job- God makes wager with devil using at jobs expense. Why would God care what satan thinks about anything.
Noah- animal species could not get to boat from all over world. All freshwater fish would have died.
Cain- who did he marry and how were there cities already.
Lot- gets so drunk he sleeps with both daughters/ the same daughters he was ready hand over for gang rape in sodom
Abraham- prostitutes his wife to pharaoh
David- many wives and living in sin
Quote
Share

Scripture
Scripture

September 13th, 2013, 12:51 pm #2

I would recommend that you get Word's Commentary on Genesis for a start. It shows the great difference between the Genesis account and the Babylonian Flood Myths. Genesis was a great step away from paganism, the belief that the material universe is creator rather than the creation. Science reasons from material and never gets to spiritual, because it cannot make a moral argument. Thus, science cannot prove the great spiritual law "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." Neither can it make any pronouncement that "love thy neighbor as thyself" is fundamental to "loving God." I have worked in the public and I notice that the average worker is more disconnected from Christianity than ever before.

Knowledge of the Bible is a great start to being able to make moral decision about one's life and behavior. The average worker today, while trained educationally, is lacking an great moral spiritual barometer. Their ability to make value choices is largely absent, and all that keeps our society going is the inertia of civil law. Already that is changing with the great moral codes of the past being eroded rapidly, and of course, this attitude migrates into the church. Moderns even debate about the definition of the family and of marriage.

One remarked the other day that praying and Bible reading are allowed in Russia today, but not in the United States. Power is elevated above moral rightness more and more in our USA. This leads us to be despised internationally, and to lose moral leadership. So that moral leadership passes onto our old-time enemies, those who divested themselves of communism and legalized reading the Bible.

I would recommend that you get "deeper" into knowledge of the Bible. Then you can understand what is happening "under the hood" and not just to evaluate the "motion of the car."

Quote
Share

Bill
Bill

September 13th, 2013, 1:25 pm #3

I grew up in church and still go. I am attempting to bring my child up that way too. I was always a lukewarm Christian so I decided for the first time at 26 to read bible cover to cover. I did, but had more questions than answers so I read it again. Even more questions. Then one night while reading Genesis to my son, I totally felt like I was lying to him. I want to believe what it says because it would be easier, but nothing about it makes sense. It makes more sense that we as people want more than anything to have meaning, and for our children to have meaning. We don't want to tell them or believe ourselves that death is it. While I don't rule the possibility of God out, I do not believe anything that happened in the Old Testament. While evolution is not a fact, it is more likely than a world wide flood with animals from all over coming to a boat. While the Big Bang is not a fact, it is more likely than a 6000 year old earth. The gospels were written 30 years or later after the fact. It would not be impossible to make things up with a gap that large. While I believe in belief, and I want to believe, I can't. My sons Christian school is even teaching evolution and billion year time scales because Christian scientist have not come up with any scientific evidence that works.

If you choke on a steak do you ask for prayers or the hiemlech?

If science is so wrong, how does GPS work?
How did they send a rover to Mars, or send a craft outside the solar system(in about the time they projected)?

If there were one or two examples, I would not have lost faith. But from the little I know, I can think of hundreds of examples.

So the question I have is how do you here believe when it makes as much logical sense as Santa?

A couple of stories that I don't get:
Golden calf- why did Moses have Levites kill everyone and then promote Aaron, the ring leader, to high priest?
Job- God makes wager with devil using at jobs expense. Why would God care what satan thinks about anything.
Noah- animal species could not get to boat from all over world. All freshwater fish would have died.
Cain- who did he marry and how were there cities already.
Lot- gets so drunk he sleeps with both daughters/ the same daughters he was ready hand over for gang rape in sodom
Abraham- prostitutes his wife to pharaoh
David- many wives and living in sin
Regardless of what you believe about the Old Testament, what do you really believe about the New Testament? If you don't believe that God could successfully call a whole pack of animals to a single "boat" before a world-wide flood, then you don't believe that God could arrange for Abraham and Sarah to have a child when they were respectively 100 and 90 years old. So what, if anything, do you believe about Jesus, salvation, and the rest of the New Testament? If you don't believe that with God, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26), then there isn't much left.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 13th, 2013, 4:41 pm #4

I grew up in church and still go. I am attempting to bring my child up that way too. I was always a lukewarm Christian so I decided for the first time at 26 to read bible cover to cover. I did, but had more questions than answers so I read it again. Even more questions. Then one night while reading Genesis to my son, I totally felt like I was lying to him. I want to believe what it says because it would be easier, but nothing about it makes sense. It makes more sense that we as people want more than anything to have meaning, and for our children to have meaning. We don't want to tell them or believe ourselves that death is it. While I don't rule the possibility of God out, I do not believe anything that happened in the Old Testament. While evolution is not a fact, it is more likely than a world wide flood with animals from all over coming to a boat. While the Big Bang is not a fact, it is more likely than a 6000 year old earth. The gospels were written 30 years or later after the fact. It would not be impossible to make things up with a gap that large. While I believe in belief, and I want to believe, I can't. My sons Christian school is even teaching evolution and billion year time scales because Christian scientist have not come up with any scientific evidence that works.

If you choke on a steak do you ask for prayers or the hiemlech?

If science is so wrong, how does GPS work?
How did they send a rover to Mars, or send a craft outside the solar system(in about the time they projected)?

If there were one or two examples, I would not have lost faith. But from the little I know, I can think of hundreds of examples.

So the question I have is how do you here believe when it makes as much logical sense as Santa?

A couple of stories that I don't get:
Golden calf- why did Moses have Levites kill everyone and then promote Aaron, the ring leader, to high priest?
Job- God makes wager with devil using at jobs expense. Why would God care what satan thinks about anything.
Noah- animal species could not get to boat from all over world. All freshwater fish would have died.
Cain- who did he marry and how were there cities already.
Lot- gets so drunk he sleeps with both daughters/ the same daughters he was ready hand over for gang rape in sodom
Abraham- prostitutes his wife to pharaoh
David- many wives and living in sin
Golden calf- why did Moses have Levites kill everyone and then promote Aaron, the ring leader, to high priest?

In Genesis 49 Jacob had cursed the tribe of Levi and warned people NOT to enter into covenant with them or attend their assemblies.

When their "brethren" rose up in musical idolatry they proved that they had learned nothing from God's Grace.

The murderous Levites jumped at the chance to kill 3000 of the idolaters. After the fall God commanded that the Levite bear the SWORD and execute any of the godly people who went near or into the sacrificial machinery. In Acts 7 God TURNED THEM OVER to worship the starry host and sentenced them to return "beyond Babylon" which meant "no return."

God did not COMMAND King, Kingdom, Temple, animal slaughter or the Levites performing as SORCERERS with Instrumental NOISE. Read Isaiah 1 and Jeremiah 7. Christ in the prophets calls them robbers and parasites. Therefore, we as Disciples read to see what happened in recorded history. Remember that the Old Testament is a history of the Hebrew People and not a history of the universe.

The Church of Christ (the Rock) continued as the Qahal, ekklesia or synagogue and did not perform rituals trying to pay God for something. Churches of Christ have historically been Bible-Centered. The Bible Stories do not mean that God COMMANDED us to do something just because the Bible records the story. If the Scribes put all of their trust in the temple which God DID NOT COMMAND, then be a student of the Prophets and hear Christ warn about the LYING PEN OF THE SCRIBES. The Bible records the good, bad and ugly so that we can know that God accepts people because they reverence God and work righteousness.

Aaron was high priest only after the people repudiated The Book of the Covenant which was Abrahamic. Because there were no mandatory religious PERFORMANCES, the First Born Sons were the civil and religious leaders. The king and priests came only after the "elders" wanted a King Set Over them: God knew that they had REJECTED his rule. He then abandoned them to the sentence of Captivity and death. God gave them kings "in His anger" because He knew that the people wanted to "worship like the nations."

http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html



Quote
Like
Share

Scriptures
Scriptures

September 14th, 2013, 5:11 am #5

Actually, there are a large number of people who have resolved these questions and have strong faith. For example, Aaron's being appointed priest after following the suggestions of the people, illustrates that public opinion can be questionable, while, at times, there should be some respect for spiritual leadership. Aaron was no Moses for sure, but even Moses the great lawgiver showed his pride and lack of faith at times.

The failure of the "multitude" to faithfully follow God did not imply that the priestly leadership was to be despised. There may be some graduation here also between motives--perhaps the people were depraved more totally while Aaron followed a momentary indiscretion. Even David's heart was redeeming, while his actions were deplorable.

There is also the distance that we today have from the Old Testament. Tht covenant was given to those in an era quite different from the Christian age. If that covenant had been perfect, there would have been no need for a new covenant, rooted in the heart and in the knowledge of God. The activities of God were therefore different from what we would expect today, since we are rooted in the new dispensation.

These were a people who were what we would call reward-oriented and punishment-adverse, so they were dealt with stiffly. The new covenant of Jesus Christ is oriented toward his people, those who are motivated and moved by the favor of God and His gift of Jesus, who respond to God through love and adoration. This is not to rule out considerations of reward and punishment, but simply to say that the higher motivations are those of love.

The events of the Old Testament take the differences of that era into account.

I would recommend rather than abandoning faith, that you learn more.
Quote
Share

Bill
Bill

September 14th, 2013, 1:50 pm #6

"Confused" says that s/he has read the Bible cover-to-cover at least twice. Other questions that Confused may have are these: If God is perfect and omnipotent, why did He give an "imperfect" Old Covenant (Mosaic Law) in the first place? Why did He give a covenant that didn't completely do the job? Why did God first want "atonement" for sins through animal sacrifices, when His plan all along was to send Jesus to make the Final atonement? Why wasn't Jesus sent much earlier, instead of the Mosaic Law, to establish His Covenant permanently and "get the job done" once and for all time?

Perhaps the answers to these questions are the "mystery of God."

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8,9 KJV).
Quote
Share

Confused
Confused

September 14th, 2013, 11:34 pm #7

Regardless of what you believe about the Old Testament, what do you really believe about the New Testament? If you don't believe that God could successfully call a whole pack of animals to a single "boat" before a world-wide flood, then you don't believe that God could arrange for Abraham and Sarah to have a child when they were respectively 100 and 90 years old. So what, if anything, do you believe about Jesus, salvation, and the rest of the New Testament? If you don't believe that with God, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26), then there isn't much left.
I believe Jesus lived. I believe he tried to change Judaism and the leaders didn't like that so they killed him. Much the same way those in the church would do today if someone professed the same things Jesus did. I believe the gospels where written many years after the fact. I believe that Jesus never asked to be worshiped and would not like the way the modern church runs today. I guess I consider myself a deist.

Or maybe at least a doubting Thomas.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 14th, 2013, 11:49 pm #8

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Thanks for corresponding. You have raised good questions.

Good thing is that the Bible has recorded both good and evil occurrences so that we may see, compare and contrast differences.

Keep in touch.[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Confused
Confused

September 15th, 2013, 12:00 am #9

Actually, there are a large number of people who have resolved these questions and have strong faith. For example, Aaron's being appointed priest after following the suggestions of the people, illustrates that public opinion can be questionable, while, at times, there should be some respect for spiritual leadership. Aaron was no Moses for sure, but even Moses the great lawgiver showed his pride and lack of faith at times.

The failure of the "multitude" to faithfully follow God did not imply that the priestly leadership was to be despised. There may be some graduation here also between motives--perhaps the people were depraved more totally while Aaron followed a momentary indiscretion. Even David's heart was redeeming, while his actions were deplorable.

There is also the distance that we today have from the Old Testament. Tht covenant was given to those in an era quite different from the Christian age. If that covenant had been perfect, there would have been no need for a new covenant, rooted in the heart and in the knowledge of God. The activities of God were therefore different from what we would expect today, since we are rooted in the new dispensation.

These were a people who were what we would call reward-oriented and punishment-adverse, so they were dealt with stiffly. The new covenant of Jesus Christ is oriented toward his people, those who are motivated and moved by the favor of God and His gift of Jesus, who respond to God through love and adoration. This is not to rule out considerations of reward and punishment, but simply to say that the higher motivations are those of love.

The events of the Old Testament take the differences of that era into account.

I would recommend rather than abandoning faith, that you learn more.
I grew up in the church, went to a c of c schools from K- college. I have continued to attend church. In all this time, I have never had any classes that discussed how the bible we have came to be and how we know it is inspired. All my classes have jumped past that to it is inspired and if you don't believe that on faith alone, you burn.

In exodus 24 Moses takes Aaron and the elders up to see God. Then in chapter 32, Aaron is making a calf, without any objection. He didn't say, "hey we just saw all of these miraculous events, and the elders and I actually saw God." He just took their gold and made the calf. I don't get the rational of any of them, or why God would choose them for his people. If they saw all of this with their eyes and didn't believe, how can I on just a book I should take as true without question, when all evidence points the other way.

In the flood for instance, even if animals did find a way to walk across water from other continents to Noah, and even if they could all fit on the ark, all of the freshwater fish would have died and you would not have the diversity seen today in them.

The island of Hawaii is a volcanic chain of islands that are formed at a few feet a year as the tectonic plates move over a hotspot. There is no way, the northern islands with the rainforest were not created 6-7000 years ago.

While I don't believe the science we have now is 100% true, it evolves with new findings. Christians pray for the sick, if they are healed it was a miracle and if they die it was Gods plan. I know praying can cure cancer and other internal sickness one can't see, but it is odd that the same prayers have never healed a severed arm.
Quote
Share

Bill
Bill

September 15th, 2013, 12:06 am #10

I believe Jesus lived. I believe he tried to change Judaism and the leaders didn't like that so they killed him. Much the same way those in the church would do today if someone professed the same things Jesus did. I believe the gospels where written many years after the fact. I believe that Jesus never asked to be worshiped and would not like the way the modern church runs today. I guess I consider myself a deist.

Or maybe at least a doubting Thomas.
Are you still looking for the Messiah to come, or do you believe that the Bible's prophecy of a Savior/Messiah is just a fable?
Quote
Share