JimmyJoe
JimmyJoe

March 1st, 2012, 5:23 am #21

Hey B. How about Church of God? Acts 20:28 and 1Cor. 15:9. Can one not assume either name to be Biblically correct? Church of Christ and Church of God are both in the New Testament.
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Joined: February 16th, 2012, 8:07 pm

March 1st, 2012, 9:05 am #22

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Brian,

Yours is an illogical comparison. It appears that you're in doubt that the church that Christ established belongs to Him.

It should be loyalty to: (a) Christ, the founder of His church, VERSUS (b) any of the men/women founders of their respective churches.

It should be loyalty to: (a) the church that Christ built VERSUS (b) any of the denominational bodies founded by man/woman.

This is the fallacy that the change agents embrace, a departure from the New Testament teachings concerning the church of our Lord Jesus Christ and from the Restoration Movement principles. The change agents are busy rewriting the RM history and promoting the concept that the church of Christ is just "another denomination."[/color]
Problem is, Donnie, sometimes we exhibit a tendency to equate loyalty to Christ with loyalty to the Church of Christ as opposed to the church of Christ. The two are not the same.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 1st, 2012, 9:13 am #23

Hey B. How about Church of God? Acts 20:28 and 1Cor. 15:9. Can one not assume either name to be Biblically correct? Church of Christ and Church of God are both in the New Testament.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]JimmyJoe,

Please read the message I posted earlier (Feb. 29) as it may illustrate my point regarding simple grammatical rules that we already know about. The word "church" is an improper noun, as improper as the word "nose" or "body" or "foot." When used in a sentence, an improper noun may not be capitalized. A good example of it is: "The churches of Christ salute you" (Rom. 16:16). In fact, the word "church" or "churches" occurs 114 times in the New Testament (KJV). None of either word is capitalized.

An improper noun is capitalized when it begins a sentence. It may be capitalized in the title of an article, a book, etc.

I'm bringing this up in that such simple grammatical rules assist me personally in thinking and believing that the church of Christ Jesus or the church of God or the Lord's church or Christ's church or God's church is NOT A DENOMINATION.

The apostle Paul wrote letters to "the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thess. 1:1) ... "unto the churches of Galatia" (Gal. 1:2); etc.

There's no question that in the first century these were congregations of the church that belongs to Christ or God or the Lord.[/color]
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Racnor
Racnor

March 1st, 2012, 1:25 pm #24

If a person is truly loyal to Christ, then s/he will be a member of the Church that Christ founded, which is the Church of Christ. S/he will not be a member of the Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, or any of the scores of other denominations, because Christ never founded them. Not one of those denominations is mentioned in the New Testament, because they are man-made. The New Testament mentions those congregations that are loyal to Christ, which are the churches of Christ. Observe:

The churches of Christ salute you (Romans 16:16b KJV).

Notice that the New Testament does NOT say, "The Baptist churches salute you," or "The Roman Catholic churches salute you," or "The Presbyterian churches salute you," etc. etc. blah blah. Those who are truly loyal to Christ comprise the Church of Christ. The individually loyal congregations are the churches of Christ.

The denominations cannot be members of the Church of Christ, because they are NOT completely loyal to Christ's teachings. Some denominations allow female officers in the Church; others dismiss baptism as essential for salvation; most denominations have instrumental music; some allow divorce and remarriage for any reason, as long as the two parties are "in love," because (so they reason) God would not want people to be unhappy; some also allow homosexual officers in the Church; some condone rattling off prefabricated, professionally written prayers over and over, which are forms of vain repetition; many observe "special holy days" (which the New Testament does not confirm) in addition to the first day of the week; many subscribe to "God didn't say not to," when nothing of the sort is recorded in the New Testament. The list could go on and on.
Perhaps, "B", is saying "God didn't say not to" to use the sign out front (SOF) of the Church building to determine if one is a Christian or not?
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B
B

March 1st, 2012, 2:06 pm #25

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]JimmyJoe,

Please read the message I posted earlier (Feb. 29) as it may illustrate my point regarding simple grammatical rules that we already know about. The word "church" is an improper noun, as improper as the word "nose" or "body" or "foot." When used in a sentence, an improper noun may not be capitalized. A good example of it is: "The churches of Christ salute you" (Rom. 16:16). In fact, the word "church" or "churches" occurs 114 times in the New Testament (KJV). None of either word is capitalized.

An improper noun is capitalized when it begins a sentence. It may be capitalized in the title of an article, a book, etc.

I'm bringing this up in that such simple grammatical rules assist me personally in thinking and believing that the church of Christ Jesus or the church of God or the Lord's church or Christ's church or God's church is NOT A DENOMINATION.

The apostle Paul wrote letters to "the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thess. 1:1) ... "unto the churches of Galatia" (Gal. 1:2); etc.

There's no question that in the first century these were congregations of the church that belongs to Christ or God or the Lord.[/color]
Perhaps JimmyJoe was trying to imply that Church of Christ and Church of God are two different "denominations."
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Joined: February 16th, 2012, 8:07 pm

March 1st, 2012, 8:00 pm #26

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]JimmyJoe,

Please read the message I posted earlier (Feb. 29) as it may illustrate my point regarding simple grammatical rules that we already know about. The word "church" is an improper noun, as improper as the word "nose" or "body" or "foot." When used in a sentence, an improper noun may not be capitalized. A good example of it is: "The churches of Christ salute you" (Rom. 16:16). In fact, the word "church" or "churches" occurs 114 times in the New Testament (KJV). None of either word is capitalized.

An improper noun is capitalized when it begins a sentence. It may be capitalized in the title of an article, a book, etc.

I'm bringing this up in that such simple grammatical rules assist me personally in thinking and believing that the church of Christ Jesus or the church of God or the Lord's church or Christ's church or God's church is NOT A DENOMINATION.

The apostle Paul wrote letters to "the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thess. 1:1) ... "unto the churches of Galatia" (Gal. 1:2); etc.

There's no question that in the first century these were congregations of the church that belongs to Christ or God or the Lord.[/color]
<em>There's no question that in the first century these were congregations of the church that belongs to Christ or God or the Lord</em>

Donnie, no argument here. However, I am not so convinced that the Church of Christ, despite the good intentions of the founders and the membership, is the same as the churches of Christ found in the New Testament.What I do know for certain is that the New Testament churches didn't grow their memberships by verbally beating up their converts. For the most part,it was done by loving persuasion despite the hard truths they were given to teach.
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JimmyJoe
JimmyJoe

March 1st, 2012, 8:30 pm #27

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]JimmyJoe,

Please read the message I posted earlier (Feb. 29) as it may illustrate my point regarding simple grammatical rules that we already know about. The word "church" is an improper noun, as improper as the word "nose" or "body" or "foot." When used in a sentence, an improper noun may not be capitalized. A good example of it is: "The churches of Christ salute you" (Rom. 16:16). In fact, the word "church" or "churches" occurs 114 times in the New Testament (KJV). None of either word is capitalized.

An improper noun is capitalized when it begins a sentence. It may be capitalized in the title of an article, a book, etc.

I'm bringing this up in that such simple grammatical rules assist me personally in thinking and believing that the church of Christ Jesus or the church of God or the Lord's church or Christ's church or God's church is NOT A DENOMINATION.

The apostle Paul wrote letters to "the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thess. 1:1) ... "unto the churches of Galatia" (Gal. 1:2); etc.

There's no question that in the first century these were congregations of the church that belongs to Christ or God or the Lord.[/color]
Sorry Donnie, I stand corrected. Evidently english grammer was not my best subject. However, I hope B (or is that b) got the gist of my post. See you Sunday.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 2nd, 2012, 7:19 am #28

Problem is, Donnie, sometimes we exhibit a tendency to equate loyalty to Christ with loyalty to the Church of Christ as opposed to the church of Christ. The two are not the same.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Brian,

I was afraid you would make that kind of a distinction.

And that's exactly what the change agents are saying.

So, how would you respond to someone asking you: "Brian, are you a member of the "Church of Christ" or the "church of Christ"?

One or the other, but not both?[/color]
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BrianCade
BrianCade

March 2nd, 2012, 7:33 am #29

I would say that I am a Christian. I know my Bible well enough to know that's never going to change. I'm not so sure I want to be identified as a member/participant of the restorationist group that calls itself the Church of Christ. If that makes me a change agent, I apologize. I'm just tired of fighting the same battles over and over.
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B
B

March 2nd, 2012, 8:12 am #30

Perhaps, "B", is saying "God didn't say not to" to use the sign out front (SOF) of the Church building to determine if one is a Christian or not?
Christ never addressed the SOF, because there was no need at the time: the first-century believers and followers of Christ WERE Christians. They were NOT Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, etc. etc. blah blah. Today, it seems that the SOF is actually necessary to identify those who ARE Christians vs. those who IMAGINE themselves to be Christians but are sadly mistaken. Discerning folks will really know the difference.
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