Where do you worship?

Where do you worship?

Jimmy Joe
Jimmy Joe

April 1st, 2009, 12:24 am #1

This is actually a question for Donnie. After spending the last few years reading (mostly) and posting (occasionally), I was wondering where Donnie "worships." I know he attends the second (contemporary) service at Madison Church of Christ quite often. I realize one can attend for multiple reasons. One reason could be to critique, criticize and then jump on the internet and inform the world of the error these "blind followers" are subjected to every service.

If I underestimate Mr. Cruz, I apologize. Maybe he is very good at multi-tasking and can do both - worship and critique - at the same time. I find it hard to understand how one can "worship" with people that you know are in error and not worshiping in a scriptural fashion. It seems it would be like a Catholic attending a Methodist service every Sunday instead of Mass. If your sole purpose for attending and posting on the websites is to warn these "wayward" Christians, wouldn't you think after nine or ten years, if they haven't "seen the error of their ways" by now, it's not going to happen?

However, since this is a free country I will defend your right to go anywhere at anytime you so desire.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 28th, 2009, 6:48 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Jimmy Joe,

First of all, I would encourage you to continue reading and to continue posting more than just "occasionally." Hopefully, you have benefited from what you've read so far. I must admit that I myself still have a lot of reading and learning to do here.

From reading your post above, I gather that you have already drawn your own conclusion about me and how or where I "worship." There's really not much I can do or say to change your mind. You and I need to realize that there's not much said about "worship" in the New Testament. But we do know that we are to worship our Father in spirit and in truth -- even in our personal lives. New Testament Christians assemble purposefully to commemorate the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross. We assemble to exhort one another, to "let the word of Christ dwell in us richly," to exhort one another, to teach and admonish one another.

I noted with interest some of the expressions you used in your post: "blind followers," "wayward Christians," "the error of their ways." I think you have a very good understanding of why I post. But let's not forget what the Madison congregation actually went through when it was subjected to unwelcome changes that were unnecessary, controversial and divisive. The implementation of the Saddleback Community Church's own Rick Warren's "church growth" scheme simply failed, and it resulted in hundreds of members leaving or seeking fellowship somewhere else.

I do not need to review all that happened in 2001 and thereafter, as one can easily read that in "What Happened at Madison This Week." But I need to stress that if there are "blind followers," there must be "blind leaders." Wouldn't you agree?

While I agree with you that it is becoming apparent that nothing is changing one way or the other after 9 or 10 years, I strongly believe that it is very important to warn (and to continue to warn) others Christians or other congregations that the leadership must take responsibility for any damage done to the body of Christ.

So, if you are convinced that I am capable of multi-tasking, then, let's leave it at that. I'm convinced that you can, too, Jimmy Joe. But so far as your suggestion for me to leave is concerned, you will not need to defend my right. But should I decide to leave, it will be on my own volition.[/color]
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Jimmy Wren
Jimmy Wren

January 18th, 2010, 11:03 pm #3

It seems that some of the sound preaching schools are growing! These preaching schools are located and supported by sound congregations and sound supporters. This is not to say that liberal congregations will not survive but as this economy tightens you will see the liberal churches put more and more emphasis on 'community programs and entertainments' instead of 'preaching the gospel!'

The liberal churches will go the way of the liberal colleges. A recent survey shows that ACL and other liberal colleges have less than 60% members of the Lord's church enrolled in them while over 95% of the enrollment at Freed-Hardeman are members of the Lord's church!

The liberal colleges now advertise on roadside billboards for students. It has almost come to that with the liberal churches!

In Christ,
Jimmy
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Jimmy Joe
Jimmy Joe

January 21st, 2010, 2:03 am #4

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Jimmy Joe,

First of all, I would encourage you to continue reading and to continue posting more than just "occasionally." Hopefully, you have benefited from what you've read so far. I must admit that I myself still have a lot of reading and learning to do here.

From reading your post above, I gather that you have already drawn your own conclusion about me and how or where I "worship." There's really not much I can do or say to change your mind. You and I need to realize that there's not much said about "worship" in the New Testament. But we do know that we are to worship our Father in spirit and in truth -- even in our personal lives. New Testament Christians assemble purposefully to commemorate the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross. We assemble to exhort one another, to "let the word of Christ dwell in us richly," to exhort one another, to teach and admonish one another.

I noted with interest some of the expressions you used in your post: "blind followers," "wayward Christians," "the error of their ways." I think you have a very good understanding of why I post. But let's not forget what the Madison congregation actually went through when it was subjected to unwelcome changes that were unnecessary, controversial and divisive. The implementation of the Saddleback Community Church's own Rick Warren's "church growth" scheme simply failed, and it resulted in hundreds of members leaving or seeking fellowship somewhere else.

I do not need to review all that happened in 2001 and thereafter, as one can easily read that in "What Happened at Madison This Week." But I need to stress that if there are "blind followers," there must be "blind leaders." Wouldn't you agree?

While I agree with you that it is becoming apparent that nothing is changing one way or the other after 9 or 10 years, I strongly believe that it is very important to warn (and to continue to warn) others Christians or other congregations that the leadership must take responsibility for any damage done to the body of Christ.

So, if you are convinced that I am capable of multi-tasking, then, let's leave it at that. I'm convinced that you can, too, Jimmy Joe. But so far as your suggestion for me to leave is concerned, you will not need to defend my right. But should I decide to leave, it will be on my own volition.[/color]
Donnie, I would like to clear-up a misunderstanding in my last post. I was not suggesting that you leave. I should have critique my last sentence more closely. It should have read: However, since this is a free country I will defend your right to go anywhere at anytime you so desire including the Madison Church of Christ contemporary service.

I didn't mean the statement in a derogatory way. Sorry
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Joe
Joe

March 22nd, 2010, 2:59 pm #5

I didn't mean the statement in a derogatory way? Why not, your whole post was derogatory, why not the last statement?
Joe McKnight
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Life is Good!!!
Life is Good!!!

March 22nd, 2010, 8:03 pm #6

1 Corinthians 13

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

How is that for your mirror?
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Concerned
Concerned

March 22nd, 2010, 9:04 pm #7

I am concerned about your definition of "love." Is it like, "I speak in tongues but I also love you, sweetheart..."?

One scriptural definition of love is: "If ye love me, keep my commandments. ... If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 14:15; John 15:10)
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Anonymous
Anonymous

March 23rd, 2010, 12:42 am #8

Concerned said...."I am concerned about your definition of "love." Is it like, "I speak in tongues but I also love you, sweetheart..."

Concerned, don't mean to alarm you here, but you came up with that definition......not me. Are you projecting yourself here?

If you are asking about the definition from 1 Corinthians 13, then you are a bit too late on quantifying the answer from that author. Paul died a long time ago.

Concerned, you answered it well enough yourself with your question. It speaks worlds of how you think....and it is not of love.
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Concerned
Concerned

March 23rd, 2010, 2:46 pm #9

So, we agree that we understand what "speaking in tongues" means.

But "love" means ... what?

(1) You say it is not as in "I love you, sweetheart." [That was not my definition, either -- I was only trying to make it easy for you.]

(2) It's never too late to learn from the great apostle Paul.

(3) You haven't stated it either way, but there's no indication that you agree with one definition of "love" from the book of John, the apostle of "love."

(4) So, how I "think" is not of "love"; therefore, your implication is that there is no "love" when you disagree with a poster or with someone you're debating?

(5) Seriously, explain "love" in I Corinthians 13 -- I am eager to learn from you.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

March 23rd, 2010, 6:43 pm #10

When a person cannot get someone to agree with his point of view, especially regarding religious topics, how often have we seen that person hurl the typical line, "You have no love!" That attitude as much as says, "We can have 'love' for each other as long as we agree; but if you don't agree with me, you don't 'love' me, and I don't 'love' you!"
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