"WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

"WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST" (by John Waddey)

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 14th, 2012, 5:01 am #1


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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]JOHN WADDEY[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]John tells us that at one point many of Jesus' disciples went back and walked with him no more (John 6:66). The Bible uses several different terms to describe the act of a Christian turning away from the Lord and his Cause. Among them are "falling away" (I Tim. 4:1), false brethren (Gal. 2:4), "going onward and abiding not in the teaching of Christ" (II John 9), "being entangled in sin and overcome" (II Pet. 2:20). In our commong language we use the words "apostasy and backsliding."

Some turn back to their old life of sin and wickedness. Peter likens them to pigs that had been washed clean, turning back to the muddy mire of their pig pen and to dogs eating their own vomit (I Pet. 2:22).

Some turn away to sullen bitterness and despair. This often is the result of some great disappointment, some bad experience in life or with fellow-Christians. They did not get the desired answers to their prayers. They felt abandoned by God or perhaps betrayed by fellow-Christians. Their faith was blighted and they turned away from God. Jude describes them as "wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever" (Jude 13). Such lost souls are to be pitied.

Some turn away to embrace competing denominational churches and beliefs. They have lost their sense of attachment to Christ and his one beloved church, yet they don't want to be counted with atheists and infidels. They want the social benefits of a church family and the respectability of being called "religious." So they seek out an alternative church that better suits their personal wants and desires. Some liberal preachers follow this shameful path in hope of finding employment.

Some become bitter enemies of Christ's church and devote themselves to slandering and attacking her. Not all who turn back are content with simply walking away. Their love turns to hatred. Men who once served Christ and his church with zeal and devotion, now spend their waking hours plotting and scheming against her. They do every thing, in their power to discredit and destroy that which they once labored to promote. Such conduct is the ultimate folly. How can finite man hope to prevail against the infinite God. How can his puny words hope to win against the powerful word of Jehovah that created and will one day destroy the universe (II Pet. 3:7-10). All such labor is shameful and fruitless. The ruin will be theirs, not God's.

Some apostates linger in the midst of our brethren and seek to subvert and undermine the church and lead disciples away with them (Acts 20:29). During the Civil War, Southern sympathizers living in the Northern states were called "copperheads." They were likened to the dreaded copperhead snake whose mottled brown color allows them to hide until their unsuspecting prey is within striking range. Such false brethren are often found lurking in Christian schools where as teachers they have access to young Christians whose faith they can easily subvert. They especially work on young preachers, preparing them for destructive rather than positive work in the church.

Some have become rank unbelievers, renouncing God, the Christ, the Scripture and Christianity in general. I have encountered a few cases of men who once served as preachers of the gospel, who later abandoned the whole of Christianity to embrace anti-Christian atheism.

The author of Hebrews wrote, "For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Heb. 6:4-6), They have made themselves the hateful enemies of Christ. Their hearts are so bitter that they cannot be brought to repentance. They are like a field that receives God's refreshing rain and yet brings forth only thorns and thistles. Like the farmer occasionally burns off the unwelcome briars, so Jehovah will destroy those apostates with the fire of judgment (Heb. 6:7-8). Such turn-coasts will rue the day they turned on their Creator and Savior. Unbelievers will have their place in the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:8).

Whatever their course of action, those who turn away from Christ and his church must understand that only those faithful unto death will receive the crown of life (Rev. 2:10). With their names stricken from the book of life, all the rest can only look forward to the eternal misery of hell (Rev. 20:15; 21:8). JHW

"We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the one who turns back the soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pigheaded and refusing to admit a mistake." (C.S. Lewis).[/color]
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___________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 15th, 2012, 6:10 pm #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Brother John pointed out above: "Some apostates linger in the midst of our brethren and seek to subvert and undermine the church and lead disciples away with them (Acts 20:29)."

John has this say in another article, "Common Criticisms of the Church of Christ":[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]Anyone or any organization that aspires to do some constructive and beneficial for humanity can expect a barrage of criticism from those pathetic souls whose only ambition is to discredit what others are doing.

The Lord's church is no exception. From her beginning she and her workers have endured the insults and slanders of the world. Joining the sinners of the world have been those counterfeit churches that are incensed by those who seek to be Christians and nothing more. It used to be that these hateful criticisms came only from those outside the church. Today, it is common to hear those same complaints and criticisms uttered by apostates within her ranks, oft referred to as change agents. [emphasis mine, DC] [/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 15th, 2012, 10:43 pm #3

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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]JOHN WADDEY[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]John tells us that at one point many of Jesus' disciples went back and walked with him no more (John 6:66). The Bible uses several different terms to describe the act of a Christian turning away from the Lord and his Cause. Among them are "falling away" (I Tim. 4:1), false brethren (Gal. 2:4), "going onward and abiding not in the teaching of Christ" (II John 9), "being entangled in sin and overcome" (II Pet. 2:20). In our commong language we use the words "apostasy and backsliding."

Some turn back to their old life of sin and wickedness. Peter likens them to pigs that had been washed clean, turning back to the muddy mire of their pig pen and to dogs eating their own vomit (I Pet. 2:22).

Some turn away to sullen bitterness and despair. This often is the result of some great disappointment, some bad experience in life or with fellow-Christians. They did not get the desired answers to their prayers. They felt abandoned by God or perhaps betrayed by fellow-Christians. Their faith was blighted and they turned away from God. Jude describes them as "wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever" (Jude 13). Such lost souls are to be pitied.

Some turn away to embrace competing denominational churches and beliefs. They have lost their sense of attachment to Christ and his one beloved church, yet they don't want to be counted with atheists and infidels. They want the social benefits of a church family and the respectability of being called "religious." So they seek out an alternative church that better suits their personal wants and desires. Some liberal preachers follow this shameful path in hope of finding employment.

Some become bitter enemies of Christ's church and devote themselves to slandering and attacking her. Not all who turn back are content with simply walking away. Their love turns to hatred. Men who once served Christ and his church with zeal and devotion, now spend their waking hours plotting and scheming against her. They do every thing, in their power to discredit and destroy that which they once labored to promote. Such conduct is the ultimate folly. How can finite man hope to prevail against the infinite God. How can his puny words hope to win against the powerful word of Jehovah that created and will one day destroy the universe (II Pet. 3:7-10). All such labor is shameful and fruitless. The ruin will be theirs, not God's.

Some apostates linger in the midst of our brethren and seek to subvert and undermine the church and lead disciples away with them (Acts 20:29). During the Civil War, Southern sympathizers living in the Northern states were called "copperheads." They were likened to the dreaded copperhead snake whose mottled brown color allows them to hide until their unsuspecting prey is within striking range. Such false brethren are often found lurking in Christian schools where as teachers they have access to young Christians whose faith they can easily subvert. They especially work on young preachers, preparing them for destructive rather than positive work in the church.

Some have become rank unbelievers, renouncing God, the Christ, the Scripture and Christianity in general. I have encountered a few cases of men who once served as preachers of the gospel, who later abandoned the whole of Christianity to embrace anti-Christian atheism.

The author of Hebrews wrote, "For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Heb. 6:4-6), They have made themselves the hateful enemies of Christ. Their hearts are so bitter that they cannot be brought to repentance. They are like a field that receives God's refreshing rain and yet brings forth only thorns and thistles. Like the farmer occasionally burns off the unwelcome briars, so Jehovah will destroy those apostates with the fire of judgment (Heb. 6:7-8). Such turn-coasts will rue the day they turned on their Creator and Savior. Unbelievers will have their place in the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:8).

Whatever their course of action, those who turn away from Christ and his church must understand that only those faithful unto death will receive the crown of life (Rev. 2:10). With their names stricken from the book of life, all the rest can only look forward to the eternal misery of hell (Rev. 20:15; 21:8). JHW

"We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the one who turns back the soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pigheaded and refusing to admit a mistake." (C.S. Lewis).[/color]
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___________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
I can't speak for those who claim the right to SOW DISCORD and cast people out of their own "synagogue" so that they can impose performance ceremonies always identified by the word "Hypocrite." However, Scripture always provides a way of escape. The fact that people FLEE even at the "worship team" level without knowing why they are so repulsed is explained by the fact that Religious performers both attract and repulse people. And that evil men"make a place in the civil mainstream for that which they know will drive away those not in on the scheme. In civil Greek Society of Lying Wonders.

IRONICALLY, proskunoimen an auton hs hieron kai thaumaston kai hdun, Pl.R.398a:

Plato. Republic [398a] who was capable by his cunning of assuming every kind of shape and imitating all things should arrive in our city, bringing with himself the poems which he wished to exhibit, and we should send him away to another city, after pouring myrrh down over his head and crowning him with fillets of wool



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October 19th, 2012, 5:25 pm #4

Every religious group has several persuasions in its membership.

1. Some are "hard right."

2. Others are sympathetic of the hard right but prefer to be quiet.

3. Some don't agree with the hard right, but prefer things to stay the same, for harmony's sake.

4. Some don't believe any of these issues are important, but helping the poor and improving one's spiritual life is paramount.

5. Some are "change agents" and want to push the church right along.

6. Then some are revolutionary and want total change.

All in all, the love of Christ must prevail. Change has taken place in Churches of Christ for its history but many times it was slow and with less controversy. In our particular era, individuals within the Churches of Christ as well as those in other churces are brought into a "virtual" congregation, and so ideas flow fast and furious. This change "slow change" with confrontation and sometimes open hostility.

These difference underscore the importance of renewing our knowledge and application of the Scriptures.
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 10:19 pm

October 21st, 2012, 12:13 am #5

Consider the strategy laid out in the Bible to assist us and keep us close to God

In Psalm 1 we are directed to meditate on the word of God "day and night". This should eliminate the constant digging into the ideas of men day and night as one would do in graduate studies in "theology".

In Psalm 119 we are directed to meditate all the day long and that Gods ideas is that testimony. How much room is there in an average day for studying the ideas of confused and misled men?

I Tim 4 the Spirit directs all who will be effective in teaching the word to meditate upon and give oneself to Bible ideas entirely. Not much room to study for that denominational scholar.

Taken as a whole, we need to focus our study and service based on the word of God as if we were searching for a great treasure. See Proverbs 2 which states that this diligent search is rewarded by understanding the fear of the Lord and finding the knowledge of God.

When we read the digressive views of some we know what they have not been doing - they have not been searching the word of God but have bathed in the deep water of mens ideas!

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 21st, 2012, 1:20 am #6

Well, it looks like what is called "worship services" has been carefully crafted to make THINKING or MEDITATING impossible. When the "worship leaders" claim to cause you to WORSHIP they are saying that by giving ALL of our brain-cell attention to their body, actions and sounds that CAUSES you to give attention to God. Now, who is ready to deny that we are aliens and have really (REALLY) landed on the Planet of the Apes?

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren,
.....whatsoever things are true,
.....whatsoever things are honest,
.....whatsoever things are just,
.....whatsoever things are pure,
.....whatsoever things are lovely,
.....whatsoever things are of good report;
if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.


log-izomai

Where would they get their meditating or thinking resources?

Philippians 4:9 Those things,
.....which ye have both learned,
.....and received, and heard,
.....and seen in me, do:
.....and the God of peace shall be with you.

Yes, I know the Chimpoinds will insist: but Paul didn't say NOT to do and think what the Great Pretenders preach and sing. They are correct of course.
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October 21st, 2012, 3:13 am #7

Consider the strategy laid out in the Bible to assist us and keep us close to God

In Psalm 1 we are directed to meditate on the word of God "day and night". This should eliminate the constant digging into the ideas of men day and night as one would do in graduate studies in "theology".

In Psalm 119 we are directed to meditate all the day long and that Gods ideas is that testimony. How much room is there in an average day for studying the ideas of confused and misled men?

I Tim 4 the Spirit directs all who will be effective in teaching the word to meditate upon and give oneself to Bible ideas entirely. Not much room to study for that denominational scholar.

Taken as a whole, we need to focus our study and service based on the word of God as if we were searching for a great treasure. See Proverbs 2 which states that this diligent search is rewarded by understanding the fear of the Lord and finding the knowledge of God.

When we read the digressive views of some we know what they have not been doing - they have not been searching the word of God but have bathed in the deep water of mens ideas!

Comments Welcome
These are good words, as you say,

1 Tim4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, 2through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron; 3forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by them that believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5for it is sanctified through the word of God and prayer.

6If thou put the brethren in mind of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished in the words of the faith, and of the good doctrine which thou hast followed until now : 7but refuse profane and old wives fables. And exercise thyself unto godliness: 8for bodily exercise is profitable for a little; but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life which now is, and of that which is to come. 9Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation. 10For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe. ASV

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 21st, 2012, 7:08 pm #8

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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]JOHN WADDEY[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]John tells us that at one point many of Jesus' disciples went back and walked with him no more (John 6:66). The Bible uses several different terms to describe the act of a Christian turning away from the Lord and his Cause. Among them are "falling away" (I Tim. 4:1), false brethren (Gal. 2:4), "going onward and abiding not in the teaching of Christ" (II John 9), "being entangled in sin and overcome" (II Pet. 2:20). In our commong language we use the words "apostasy and backsliding."

Some turn back to their old life of sin and wickedness. Peter likens them to pigs that had been washed clean, turning back to the muddy mire of their pig pen and to dogs eating their own vomit (I Pet. 2:22).

Some turn away to sullen bitterness and despair. This often is the result of some great disappointment, some bad experience in life or with fellow-Christians. They did not get the desired answers to their prayers. They felt abandoned by God or perhaps betrayed by fellow-Christians. Their faith was blighted and they turned away from God. Jude describes them as "wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever" (Jude 13). Such lost souls are to be pitied.

Some turn away to embrace competing denominational churches and beliefs. They have lost their sense of attachment to Christ and his one beloved church, yet they don't want to be counted with atheists and infidels. They want the social benefits of a church family and the respectability of being called "religious." So they seek out an alternative church that better suits their personal wants and desires. Some liberal preachers follow this shameful path in hope of finding employment.

Some become bitter enemies of Christ's church and devote themselves to slandering and attacking her. Not all who turn back are content with simply walking away. Their love turns to hatred. Men who once served Christ and his church with zeal and devotion, now spend their waking hours plotting and scheming against her. They do every thing, in their power to discredit and destroy that which they once labored to promote. Such conduct is the ultimate folly. How can finite man hope to prevail against the infinite God. How can his puny words hope to win against the powerful word of Jehovah that created and will one day destroy the universe (II Pet. 3:7-10). All such labor is shameful and fruitless. The ruin will be theirs, not God's.

Some apostates linger in the midst of our brethren and seek to subvert and undermine the church and lead disciples away with them (Acts 20:29). During the Civil War, Southern sympathizers living in the Northern states were called "copperheads." They were likened to the dreaded copperhead snake whose mottled brown color allows them to hide until their unsuspecting prey is within striking range. Such false brethren are often found lurking in Christian schools where as teachers they have access to young Christians whose faith they can easily subvert. They especially work on young preachers, preparing them for destructive rather than positive work in the church.

Some have become rank unbelievers, renouncing God, the Christ, the Scripture and Christianity in general. I have encountered a few cases of men who once served as preachers of the gospel, who later abandoned the whole of Christianity to embrace anti-Christian atheism.

The author of Hebrews wrote, "For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Heb. 6:4-6), They have made themselves the hateful enemies of Christ. Their hearts are so bitter that they cannot be brought to repentance. They are like a field that receives God's refreshing rain and yet brings forth only thorns and thistles. Like the farmer occasionally burns off the unwelcome briars, so Jehovah will destroy those apostates with the fire of judgment (Heb. 6:7-8). Such turn-coasts will rue the day they turned on their Creator and Savior. Unbelievers will have their place in the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:8).

Whatever their course of action, those who turn away from Christ and his church must understand that only those faithful unto death will receive the crown of life (Rev. 2:10). With their names stricken from the book of life, all the rest can only look forward to the eternal misery of hell (Rev. 20:15; 21:8). JHW

"We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the one who turns back the soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pigheaded and refusing to admit a mistake." (C.S. Lewis).[/color]
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___________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
It is amazing that Paul identifies seducing demons and the NON-ELECT (not baptized into) lie like demons and tell the lambs that the Bible says NOTHING against their fall into performance to DELIBERATELY silence that which they get paid to teach but and which they deny has any meaning for THEIR age. Their magic is so powerful that:

Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

In one way or another is probably being repeated. A sign includes:

smeia signal for battle, ta s. rth, katespasth, Th.1.49,63, etc.; kathairein to s. to take it down, strike the flag, as a sign of dissolving an assembly, And.1.36; to ts ekklsias s. Ar.Th.278;

Some ekklesias HAVE already STRUCK THE FLAG that they are closed for business.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 22nd, 2012, 10:34 pm #9

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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]WHEN DISCIPLES TURN AWAY FROM CHRIST[/color]

[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]JOHN WADDEY[/color]

[color=#000000" size="3.5" face="times]John tells us that at one point many of Jesus' disciples went back and walked with him no more (John 6:66). The Bible uses several different terms to describe the act of a Christian turning away from the Lord and his Cause. Among them are "falling away" (I Tim. 4:1), false brethren (Gal. 2:4), "going onward and abiding not in the teaching of Christ" (II John 9), "being entangled in sin and overcome" (II Pet. 2:20). In our commong language we use the words "apostasy and backsliding."

Some turn back to their old life of sin and wickedness. Peter likens them to pigs that had been washed clean, turning back to the muddy mire of their pig pen and to dogs eating their own vomit (I Pet. 2:22).

Some turn away to sullen bitterness and despair. This often is the result of some great disappointment, some bad experience in life or with fellow-Christians. They did not get the desired answers to their prayers. They felt abandoned by God or perhaps betrayed by fellow-Christians. Their faith was blighted and they turned away from God. Jude describes them as "wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever" (Jude 13). Such lost souls are to be pitied.

Some turn away to embrace competing denominational churches and beliefs. They have lost their sense of attachment to Christ and his one beloved church, yet they don't want to be counted with atheists and infidels. They want the social benefits of a church family and the respectability of being called "religious." So they seek out an alternative church that better suits their personal wants and desires. Some liberal preachers follow this shameful path in hope of finding employment.

Some become bitter enemies of Christ's church and devote themselves to slandering and attacking her. Not all who turn back are content with simply walking away. Their love turns to hatred. Men who once served Christ and his church with zeal and devotion, now spend their waking hours plotting and scheming against her. They do every thing, in their power to discredit and destroy that which they once labored to promote. Such conduct is the ultimate folly. How can finite man hope to prevail against the infinite God. How can his puny words hope to win against the powerful word of Jehovah that created and will one day destroy the universe (II Pet. 3:7-10). All such labor is shameful and fruitless. The ruin will be theirs, not God's.

Some apostates linger in the midst of our brethren and seek to subvert and undermine the church and lead disciples away with them (Acts 20:29). During the Civil War, Southern sympathizers living in the Northern states were called "copperheads." They were likened to the dreaded copperhead snake whose mottled brown color allows them to hide until their unsuspecting prey is within striking range. Such false brethren are often found lurking in Christian schools where as teachers they have access to young Christians whose faith they can easily subvert. They especially work on young preachers, preparing them for destructive rather than positive work in the church.

Some have become rank unbelievers, renouncing God, the Christ, the Scripture and Christianity in general. I have encountered a few cases of men who once served as preachers of the gospel, who later abandoned the whole of Christianity to embrace anti-Christian atheism.

The author of Hebrews wrote, "For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Heb. 6:4-6), They have made themselves the hateful enemies of Christ. Their hearts are so bitter that they cannot be brought to repentance. They are like a field that receives God's refreshing rain and yet brings forth only thorns and thistles. Like the farmer occasionally burns off the unwelcome briars, so Jehovah will destroy those apostates with the fire of judgment (Heb. 6:7-8). Such turn-coasts will rue the day they turned on their Creator and Savior. Unbelievers will have their place in the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:8).

Whatever their course of action, those who turn away from Christ and his church must understand that only those faithful unto death will receive the crown of life (Rev. 2:10). With their names stricken from the book of life, all the rest can only look forward to the eternal misery of hell (Rev. 20:15; 21:8). JHW

"We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the one who turns back the soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pigheaded and refusing to admit a mistake." (C.S. Lewis).[/color]
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___________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
Demosthenes 19.[255] What we require, Aeschines, is not oratory with enfolded hands, but diplomacy with enfolded hands.

But in Macedonia you held out your hands, turned them palm upwards, and brought shame upon your countrymen, and then here at home you talk magniloquently; you practise and declaim some miserable fustian, and think to escape the due penalty of your heinous crimes, if you only don your little skull-cap,1 take your constitutional, and abuse me. Now read.

Solon's Elegiacs Not by the doom of Zeus, who ruleth all,
Not by the curse of Heaven shall Athens fall.
Strong in her Sire, above the favored land
Pallas Athene lifts her guardian hand.

No; her own citizens with counsels vain
Shall work her rain in their quest of gain;
Dishonest demagogues her folk misguide,
Foredoomed to suffer for their guilty pride.

Their reckless greed, insatiate of delight,
Knows not to taste the frugal feast aright;
Th' unbridled lust of gold, their only care,
Nor public wealth nor wealth divine will spare.

Now here, now there, they raven, rob and seize,
Heedless of Justice and her stern decrees,
Who silently the present and the past
Reviews, whose slow revenge o'ertakes at last.

On every home the swift contagion falls,
Till servitude a free-born race enthralls.
Now faction reigns now wakes the sword of strife,
And comely youth shall pay its toll of life;

We waste our strength in conflict with our kin,
And soon our gates shall let the foeman in.
Such woes the factious nation shall endure;
A fate more hard awaits the hapless poor;

For them, enslaved, bound with insulting chains,
Captivity in alien lands remains.
To every hearth the public curse extends;
The courtyard gate no longer safety lends;
Death leaps the wall, nor shall he shun the doom
Who flies for safety to his inmost room.

Ye men of Athens, listen while I show
How many ills from lawless licence flow.
Respect for Law shall check your rising lust,
Humble the haughty, fetter the unjust,

Make the rough places plain, bid envy cease,
Wither infatuation's fell increase,
Make crooked judgement straight, the works prevent
Of insolence and sullen discontent,
And quench the fires of strife. In Law we find
The wisdom and perfection of Mankind.

Solon
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October 23rd, 2012, 4:02 pm #10

My comments to Demosthenes are in brackets [ ] . These are my interpretations of what the poem says. The poem supports development of law across time. Law can mean from our perspective, either scripture, useful tradition, or consensus.]

Demosthenes 19.[255] What we require, Aeschines, is not oratory with enfolded hands, but diplomacy with enfolded hands.

[Oratory is singular, with those hearing subject to one person's views. As such it is unlawful in itself, since there is no consensus, but is one man's opinion. Diplomacy, on the other hand, results from the consensus of several who write law [in our case Scripture].

But in Macedonia you held out your hands, turned them palm upwards, and brought shame upon your countrymen, and then here at home you talk magniloquently; you practise and declaim some miserable fustian, and think to escape the due penalty of your heinous crimes, if you only don your little skull-cap,1 take your constitutional, and abuse me. Now read.

[I think the previous paragraph insults those moderns who are pretentious and view those of a simpler nature with condescendingly.]

Solon's Elegiacs Not by the doom of Zeus, who ruleth all,
Not by the curse of Heaven shall Athens fall.
Strong in her Sire, above the favored land
Pallas Athene lifts her guardian hand.

[Pallas Athena may have been a statue of Goddess Athena that would take care of Athens.]

No; her own citizens with counsels vain
Shall work her rain in their quest of gain;
Dishonest demagogues her folk misguide,
Foredoomed to suffer for their guilty pride.

[Their gods of the Athenians do not need punish but vain citizens are punished by their own greed and vanity.]

Their reckless greed, insatiate of delight,
Knows not to taste the frugal feast aright;
Th' unbridled lust of gold, their only care,
Nor public wealth nor wealth divine will spare.

Now here, now there, they raven, rob and seize,
Heedless of Justice and her stern decrees,
Who silently the present and the past
Reviews, whose slow revenge o'ertakes at last.

[ Greed for wealth, injustice, legal and illegal robbery brings its own revenge on its agents--those that abuse the community of others. Justice and judgment will be slow but will eventually come home to roost. The power and size of the society cannot overcome this judgment.]

On every home the swift contagion falls,
Till servitude a free-born race enthralls.
Now faction reigns now wakes the sword of strife,
And comely youth shall pay its toll of life;

[A faction or clique creates the disorder and strife, and those younger who would inherit the culture shall instead reap only the disorder and confusion. The inheritors shall lose their inheritance, and those loss shall extend to every household.]

We waste our strength in conflict with our kin,
And soon our gates shall let the foeman in.
Such woes the factious nation shall endure;
A fate more hard awaits the hapless poor;

[Internal strife of the community weakens all learning and tradition, such that a foreign power invades and brings to naught the community. Damage reaches down to the poor.]

For them, enslaved, bound with insulting chains,
Captivity in alien lands remains.
To every hearth the public curse extends;
The courtyard gate no longer safety lends;
Death leaps the wall, nor shall he shun the doom
Who flies for safety to his inmost room.

[Holy traditions and positive culture lose their autonomy. Alien thoughts rule the day, and Christians, for example, fall once again under the curse of Popery and servitude, with creedalism.]

Ye men of Athens, listen while I show
How many ills from lawless licence flow.
Respect for Law shall check your rising lust,
Humble the haughty, fetter the unjust,

[Respect for law and tradition can stop this unfortunate march, and with repentance and reflection, the trend can be reversed.]

Make the rough places plain, bid envy cease,
Wither infatuation's fell increase,
Make crooked judgement straight, the works prevent
Of insolence and sullen discontent,
And quench the fires of strife. In Law we find
The wisdom and perfection of Mankind.

[Envy and covetousness for the temporary must cease. Return to the written word. The written word transcends the immediate and contemporary, since it has survived the generations, and would not be passed on if it did not have the stamp of authenticity, that is proof of its reliability and faithfulness. The unfortunate alternative to lawful tradition, is the dominance of contemporary infatuation, which will disappear with the wind, after unbinding citizens from the assurance that comes through law.]

Solon

[Solon is a member of a legislative body. it is natural that this person would write such a poem that supports rights under law.]


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