Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 12th, 2012, 5:44 pm #11

For those who love the Lord and are Disciples (students) that is the central purpose driving the assemblies. Whatever minimizes or replaces Christ as the only source is forbidden by the Word and common decency.

Songs and sermons are to teach that which has been written and elders are to teach that which has been taught. That is both a direct command and the mark of those who hunger and thirst to know more about God and the lord.

I don't believe that is widely believed anymore and if the church shrinks or does not grow the only remedy is to feed them with The Word.
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B
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April 12th, 2012, 6:42 pm #12

"Read your Bible and figure it out?" Seems you don't know either.
John Watson Smith summed it up quite well. Of course, if a person really wants to know the pattern, s/he will read and study the New Testament. If that's odious, then s/he really doesn't want to know the pattern.
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Joined: February 16th, 2012, 8:07 pm

April 13th, 2012, 6:36 pm #13

IF following the pattern is a salvation issue, don't you think we ought to be able to explain it to those in darkness?
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 10:19 pm

April 13th, 2012, 10:17 pm #14

John Watson Smith summed it up quite well. Of course, if a person really wants to know the pattern, s/he will read and study the New Testament. If that's odious, then s/he really doesn't want to know the pattern.
Further the Bible teaches

In Titus 2 that the Grace of God teaches us to live sober righteous and godly lives looking for the second coming of Jesus.
That is a pattern of thinking that we are to follow. The Grace of God does not teach what some TV and radio preachers teach that Christianity is the ultimate feel good about yourself trip.

In I John 2 the Spirit of God says do not love the world or the things in the world - and gives the reason that the world and its works will pass away and those that walk by the will of God abide forever. Another pattern of thinking that we are to follow. The things in the world include the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

In II Pet 3 the inspired apostle tells us another firm and sure pattern of behavior to follow - living in holy conduct and godliness looking for the day of God. We don't know when the Lord will return so we should live in a constant state of being ready for the judgement.

May we all be reminded of these things!

Comments welcome

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 14th, 2012, 5:59 am #15

IF following the pattern is a salvation issue, don't you think we ought to be able to explain it to those in darkness?
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]That "it [whatever] is not a salvation issue" is a typical ultimate response coming from the liberal, progressive side of the aisle.

For example, part of the pattern for the New Testament church is the gospel truth that only when one outside of Christ hears the gospel, believes in Christ, repents and is baptized will that sinner be saved and become God's child and be added to the body of Christ.

That's only one example. But still not only can that part of the pattern become a salvation issue but also that part of the pattern IS A SALVATION ISSUE.

Unless the final step in the process of conversion, which is being baptized, is followed, the sinner DOES NOT BECOME God's child UNLESS and UNTIL he has been buried with Christ in baptism IN ORDER TO HAVE HIS SINS REMITTED. He also must be RISEN with Christ from the burial IN ORDER TO BEGIN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

It is unscriptural to tell the sinner (one outside of Christ) that all he needs to do is "accept Christ as your personal Savior" (i.e., "believe") and he is forgiven of his sins and is SAVED WITHOUT THE BURIAL AND RESURRECTION WITH CHRIST.

That is just one example of many. But that should be a strong point enough to consider: (1) that conversion without baptism or (2) that one is saved BEFORE BAPTISM -- is a serious salvation issue.

Sadly and unfortunately, is the change agents in the brotherhood who are questioning the pattern for the New Testament church.

The change agents go so far as to teach:
(1) That the sinner "accepts Christ" and is saved; he is baptized later on.
(2) That the "office of an elder" is now a modified concept [that of a liberal "shepherd"]
(3) That the "office of a deacon" is insignificant, to be abolished
(4) That the church of Christ is just "another denomination."
(5) ... etc.[/color]
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Anonymous
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April 14th, 2012, 8:36 am #16

So what is the complete pattern? I don't want just part of it.
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April 14th, 2012, 12:42 pm #17

Follow the commands and directions of Jesus in the Gospels as well as the examples of Christian living given in the apostolic epistles. That is the complete pattern.

There is a thread in the archives entitled "Christ's Requirements for Salvation" by Dr. Bill Crump. It summarizes what Christ requires of us for salvation plus how we must live after we become Christians. All these directions are taken directly from the New Testament.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 14th, 2012, 1:11 pm #18

So what is the complete pattern? I don't want just part of it.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I know what you want -- making all excuses for the benefit of the change agents who make an issue of the New Testament pattern for the New Testament church.

The truth in the New Testament is THE PATTERN for the New Testament church. In it you will find the design and structure of the church and its organization -- the office of "elder" (not papacy), the office of "deacon" (not wife, but husband of one wife).

God's design for conversion is that forgiveness of sins in the blood of the Lamb DOES NOT OCCUR PRIOR TO immersion in water (burial and resurrection with Christ in baptism).

THE PATTERN for the church, conversion and Christian living is revealed in the New Testament -- it is plenary.

Do not question the completeness of the New Testament -- be assured: it does not include man's opinions, creeds, viewpoints, assertions, commandments.[/color]
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Joined: February 16th, 2012, 8:07 pm

April 14th, 2012, 10:27 pm #19

So let me re-phrase the question: can anyone articulate for me what the pattern is?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 15th, 2012, 1:01 am #20

Further the Bible teaches

In Titus 2 that the Grace of God teaches us to live sober righteous and godly lives looking for the second coming of Jesus.
That is a pattern of thinking that we are to follow. The Grace of God does not teach what some TV and radio preachers teach that Christianity is the ultimate feel good about yourself trip.

In I John 2 the Spirit of God says do not love the world or the things in the world - and gives the reason that the world and its works will pass away and those that walk by the will of God abide forever. Another pattern of thinking that we are to follow. The things in the world include the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

In II Pet 3 the inspired apostle tells us another firm and sure pattern of behavior to follow - living in holy conduct and godliness looking for the day of God. We don't know when the Lord will return so we should live in a constant state of being ready for the judgement.

May we all be reminded of these things!

Comments welcome
In II Pet 3 the inspired apostle tells us another firm and sure pattern of behavior to follow - living in holy conduct and godliness looking for the day of God. We don't know when the Lord will return so we should live in a constant state of being ready for the judgement.

Sure hope God doesn't catch me singing those girly songs, clapping and swaying and making so much noise I don't hear the trumpet.
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