What Did the Word (Logos) become???

What Did the Word (Logos) become???

Dave
Dave

January 25th, 2017, 5:54 pm #1

The WORD became JESUS. John 1:14

The Word WAS God. John 1:1

Jesus, formerly the Word, was God.


If Jesus, formerly the Word, WAS God, then HE IS GOD. Infinity with God is just that...ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

Ken Sublett continues to believe that THE WORD was something that God just spoke. Whether it is or isn't, the fact remains.....THAT WORD became JESUS in the flesh. THAT WORD WAS/IS GOD!

No Donnie Cruz, YOU KNOW BETTER when you try to downplay John 1:1 as Jesus being another god. We have already had a Greek scholar to confirm this (Donnie Cruz and Ken Sublett are NOT Greek scholars). THIS IS THE SON OF GOD that we are speaking of. That is why His nature was to NOT sin, for He was the ONLY begotten Son of God. He was OF GOD and therefore GOD HIMSELF.

You can't understand that Jesus, being the Son of God, the Son of man, can still be God.

READ and BELIEVE

Philipians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CATHOLICISM. IT HAS TO DO WITH BELIEVING OR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD'S WORD.

Ken and Donnie. A nice reubttal here with blue/red and bigger font would be nice. Thank you ahead of time.
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Bill
Bill

January 26th, 2017, 2:37 am #2

Oh, I'm sure Donnie will accommodate Dave with mega-fonts as well as underlined and boldface text in multiple colors with multiple exclamation points, all composed between the hours of 2 and 5 AM.

And Ken will respond with his typically rambling, convoluted, excessively worded diatribes that will surely include something about infernal mythology and music-bashing, all peppered with his favorite phrases in red: "lying in wait to deceive," "liars and antichrists," and "the lake of fire."

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 26th, 2017, 3:12 am #3

We have noted that John several decades later clears up any present or future twisting of Scripture. He notes that:

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that <font size="5">this is the Son of God.


Jesus and others make it so clear that the Man Jesus was made to be the Son of God only after He was baptized.
Sarge keeps calling Jessu and everyone liars.
Liars are blasphemers.

Now any and all religious craftsman: speaker, singer or instrument player is a Sorcerer who HAD once deceived the whole world. They will be or are being CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

As far as we know, Sarge is not selling any of his body parts while pretending to represent Jesus, therefore it seems appropriate that he just be sentenced for a hundred years watching Duck Dynasty.</font>
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 26th, 2017, 3:51 am #4

Oh, I'm sure Donnie will accommodate Dave with mega-fonts as well as underlined and boldface text in multiple colors with multiple exclamation points, all composed between the hours of 2 and 5 AM.

And Ken will respond with his typically rambling, convoluted, excessively worded diatribes that will surely include something about infernal mythology and music-bashing, all peppered with his favorite phrases in red: "lying in wait to deceive," "liars and antichrists," and "the lake of fire."

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill's favorite rebuttal? "Mega-fonts[/color] ... underlined and boldface text in multiple colors with exclamation points [!!!!!]...."

Plus, Bill just doesn't know what to do with these scriptures:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (I John 2:22, KJV)

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.... (I John 4:3, KJV)

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (II John 1:7, KJV)


Here's a summary of Bill's thinking:

1. That God is the Christ. Wrong!
2. That the Christ is God. Wrong!
3. That the conjunction "and" is missing between: (a) the Father and (b) the Son. Wrong!
4. That the Father "IS" the Son [substituting "is" for "and"]. Wrong!
5. That the Son "IS" the Father. Wrong!
6. That God is come in the flesh, instead of the LOGOS (the WORD) of God. Wrong!
7. That God sent Himself to earth as the prophesied Messiah. Wrong!
8. (We haven't even begun the Trinity's "Holy Ghost" being God.)


The discussion has just begun!
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Bill
Bill

January 26th, 2017, 4:05 am #5

I commend Donnie for posting earlier than between 2 and 5 AM. He did so, knowing that I would have been on his case otherwise.

Donnie's now expanding his palette with green text. All the multiple exclamation points still paint Donnie as a megalomaniacal religious fanatic, though.
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Dave
Dave

January 26th, 2017, 4:36 am #6

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill's favorite rebuttal? "Mega-fonts[/color] ... underlined and boldface text in multiple colors with exclamation points [!!!!!]...."

Plus, Bill just doesn't know what to do with these scriptures:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (I John 2:22, KJV)

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.... (I John 4:3, KJV)

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (II John 1:7, KJV)


Here's a summary of Bill's thinking:

1. That God is the Christ. Wrong!
2. That the Christ is God. Wrong!
3. That the conjunction "and" is missing between: (a) the Father and (b) the Son. Wrong!
4. That the Father "IS" the Son [substituting "is" for "and"]. Wrong!
5. That the Son "IS" the Father. Wrong!
6. That God is come in the flesh, instead of the LOGOS (the WORD) of God. Wrong!
7. That God sent Himself to earth as the prophesied Messiah. Wrong!
8. (We haven't even begun the Trinity's "Holy Ghost" being God.)


The discussion has just begun!
1. That God is the Christ. Wrong!
Donnie utilizes man's logic to believe that if Jesus is God, then God is Jesus. Jesus came from God, is OF God, formerly the Logos. Jesus is God. John 1 verse 1 confirms this.
2. That the Christ is God. Wrong!
Donnie says wrong. God says RIGHT! John 1 verse 1
3. That the conjunction "and" is missing between: (a) the Father and (b) the Son. Wrong!
AND??? God and Jesus were separated because the Word became flesh. Therefore the Father and the Son.
4. That the Father "IS" the Son [substituting "is" for "and"].
John 1 verse says that the WORD WAS GOD. With God WAS can only be IS. What WAS means infinity before creation and therefore will always IS.
5. That the Son "IS" the Father. Wrong!
The Son is not the Father, the Son is God. Difference between Jesus being God and Jesus being the Father. Even now God is still the Father of Jesus, yet Jesus is God. One God???? OF COURSE.
6. That God is come in the flesh, instead of the LOGOS (the WORD) of God. Wrong!
Donnie says WRONG because Donnie denies the Word, but The Word (Logos) was God. The Word became flesh. THEREFORE...Jesus, formerly the Word, is God.
7. That God sent Himself to earth as the prophesied Messiah. Wrong!
No one is saying that God sent Himself, but a part of Himself. Any part of God IS GOD. No one else but Jesus can make that claim.
8. (We haven't even begun the Trinity's "Holy Ghost" being God.)
Can hardly wait.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 26th, 2017, 4:51 am #7

The WORD became JESUS. John 1:14

The Word WAS God. John 1:1

Jesus, formerly the Word, was God.


If Jesus, formerly the Word, WAS God, then HE IS GOD. Infinity with God is just that...ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

Ken Sublett continues to believe that THE WORD was something that God just spoke. Whether it is or isn't, the fact remains.....THAT WORD became JESUS in the flesh. THAT WORD WAS/IS GOD!

No Donnie Cruz, YOU KNOW BETTER when you try to downplay John 1:1 as Jesus being another god. We have already had a Greek scholar to confirm this (Donnie Cruz and Ken Sublett are NOT Greek scholars). THIS IS THE SON OF GOD that we are speaking of. That is why His nature was to NOT sin, for He was the ONLY begotten Son of God. He was OF GOD and therefore GOD HIMSELF.

You can't understand that Jesus, being the Son of God, the Son of man, can still be God.

READ and BELIEVE

Philipians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CATHOLICISM. IT HAS TO DO WITH BELIEVING OR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD'S WORD.

Ken and Donnie. A nice reubttal here with blue/red and bigger font would be nice. Thank you ahead of time.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave, let's discuss John 1:1 first.

I recall from the Jehovah's Witnesses thread that you quoted an article from a Greek professor. Right! A scholar? Plus, your capacity to ignore and reject the history and origin of the pagan-influenced, Catholic-and-Roman-Emperor-invented Trinity dogma. Maybe a study of the paganistic Roman culture during the era of the establishment of the New Testament church and its spread from Jerusalem to Rome and other parts of the region -- I believe will help you understand the man-made dogma that you embrace with passion. Keep in mind that even the Restoration Movement leaders did not embrace and teach the papal doctrine of "the Trinity."

Yes, it has much to do with Roman Catholicism. It looks like Martin Luther's Reformation Movement of the Roman Catholic Church with his 95 Theses did not go far enough with doctrinal cleansing.

Just so we're discussing this thread in a more structured format, let's discuss John 1:1-14 first. Factors involved are the original New Testament Greek text, translators, Greek grammatical rules, English grammatical rules (capitalization, punctuation marks, the definite article "the" and word order).

Here's the original word-for-word N.T. Greek text of John 1:1 with no capitalization:

[/color]
N.T. Greek: en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

English: in original was the saying and the saying was toward the god and god was the saying.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

1. There are 3 clauses in the passage;
2. In the 1st clause, "ho logos": "logos" is preceded by a definite article "the";
3. In the 2nd clause, "ho logos" and "ton theon": it's both "the word" and "the god";
4. In the 3rd clause, "theos" and "ho logos": "the word" is no longer "the god";
5. In the text, "the god" refers to the the only one true God (the Father) in contrast to "god" without the definite article "the" which refers to any god other than the "Supreme Being."[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 26th, 2017, 4:54 am #8

I commend Donnie for posting earlier than between 2 and 5 AM. He did so, knowing that I would have been on his case otherwise.

Donnie's now expanding his palette with green text. All the multiple exclamation points still paint Donnie as a megalomaniacal religious fanatic, though.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Your rebuttal? You certainly can do better than that, Bill. [/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 26th, 2017, 5:09 am #9

The WORD became JESUS. John 1:14

The Word WAS God. John 1:1

Jesus, formerly the Word, was God.


If Jesus, formerly the Word, WAS God, then HE IS GOD. Infinity with God is just that...ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

Ken Sublett continues to believe that THE WORD was something that God just spoke. Whether it is or isn't, the fact remains.....THAT WORD became JESUS in the flesh. THAT WORD WAS/IS GOD!

No Donnie Cruz, YOU KNOW BETTER when you try to downplay John 1:1 as Jesus being another god. We have already had a Greek scholar to confirm this (Donnie Cruz and Ken Sublett are NOT Greek scholars). THIS IS THE SON OF GOD that we are speaking of. That is why His nature was to NOT sin, for He was the ONLY begotten Son of God. He was OF GOD and therefore GOD HIMSELF.

You can't understand that Jesus, being the Son of God, the Son of man, can still be God.

READ and BELIEVE

Philipians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CATHOLICISM. IT HAS TO DO WITH BELIEVING OR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD'S WORD.

Ken and Donnie. A nice reubttal here with blue/red and bigger font would be nice. Thank you ahead of time.
Sarge is right up there with the theological Generals! He just takes snippets out of the body of a goat and says that it is a deer. THAT'S the Pattern of those FOREORDAINED who can never either try or succeed in reading BLACK text on WHITE paper. They just can't stop accusing God with being Ignorant for not commanding:

Singing to one another or all of the others with that which is written by Limpy the Praise singer.

Sarge doesn't know a single SCHOLAR who can grasp that SPEAK is not defined as the opposite of ODE as one of those "enchantment" black arts.

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 26th, 2017, 5:16 am #10

1. That God is the Christ. Wrong!
Donnie utilizes man's logic to believe that if Jesus is God, then God is Jesus. Jesus came from God, is OF God, formerly the Logos. Jesus is God. John 1 verse 1 confirms this.
2. That the Christ is God. Wrong!
Donnie says wrong. God says RIGHT! John 1 verse 1
3. That the conjunction "and" is missing between: (a) the Father and (b) the Son. Wrong!
AND??? God and Jesus were separated because the Word became flesh. Therefore the Father and the Son.
4. That the Father "IS" the Son [substituting "is" for "and"].
John 1 verse says that the WORD WAS GOD. With God WAS can only be IS. What WAS means infinity before creation and therefore will always IS.
5. That the Son "IS" the Father. Wrong!
The Son is not the Father, the Son is God. Difference between Jesus being God and Jesus being the Father. Even now God is still the Father of Jesus, yet Jesus is God. One God???? OF COURSE.
6. That God is come in the flesh, instead of the LOGOS (the WORD) of God. Wrong!
Donnie says WRONG because Donnie denies the Word, but The Word (Logos) was God. The Word became flesh. THEREFORE...Jesus, formerly the Word, is God.
7. That God sent Himself to earth as the prophesied Messiah. Wrong!
No one is saying that God sent Himself, but a part of Himself. Any part of God IS GOD. No one else but Jesus can make that claim.
8. (We haven't even begun the Trinity's "Holy Ghost" being God.)
Can hardly wait.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

Your main problem is that you've made your conclusion first based on the pope's dogma, then your present your argument based on a faulty premise.

Do you honestly believe that the Christ is God? Read Acts 2:26 -- it was God who made Jesus the Crucified BOTH Lord and Christ.

No, Dave, God sent His only begotten Son. Remember John 3:16? The Sender is not the one sent.

What was the gender of "The LOGOS OF GOD" ("THE WORD OF GOD") before becoming flesh?

Maybe you should practice saying: "the LOGOS of God" -- say a hundred times a day [][/color]


_______________________

[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]The correct reference should be Acts 2:36 -- preceding "Repent and be baptized"[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 26th, 2017, 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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