What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 30th, 2016, 3:26 pm #11

A Christian is a Disciple and a Disciple is a Student and a Student attends the SCHOOL OF JESUS which is OUTSIDE the "houses built by human hands." A Disciple wants to know WHAT IS and does not fabricate dogma which contradicts dozens of statements and perhaps is unable to read the text because the Angels of Blight make certain that the lambs SEEK THE GLORY OF THOSE WHO speak their OWN Words.

Mic. 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

egressus eius ab initio a diebus aeternitatis

4163. mo-tsaw-aw; feminine of 4161; a family descent; also a sewer (marg.; compare 6675):—draught house; going forth.

Genesis 15.[4] Behold, the word of Yahweh came to him, saying, "This man will not be your HEIR, but he who will come forth out of your own body will be your heir."

1 kings 8.9] There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Yahweh made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

Zecharian 10 [3] My anger is kindled against the SHEPHERD, And I will punish the male goats; [Judas played the flute] For Yahweh of Hosts has visited his flock, the house of Judah, And will make them as his horse in the battle that he is proud of. [4] From him [Judah]

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see MY DAY: and he saw it, and was glad WILL come forth the corner-stone, From him the nail, From him the battle bow, From him every ruler together.

Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Jesus was OF the SEED of Adam and Eve: my GOING FORTH is documented to be in the early 1500s but I didn't exist as French or Lombard. Isn't SIMPLE really SIMPLE?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 30th, 2016, 5:22 pm #12

The Son of God himself endorsed the reliability of the Old Testament record regarding the flood (Matthew 24:37-39). Since he is an eternal being (Micah 5:2; John 1:1) and therefore witnessed the flood (cf. John 8:58), his testimony must be accepted as fact.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Curly,

"The flood." Why are we discussing Noah's flood? It appears that we may be deviating from the topic of your own thread?

But other matters you've brought up must be addressed.

We've discussed John 1:1 quite extensively. Let's keep in mind that the Scripture speaks of "THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST" (II Cor. 11:31; Eph. 1:3; 4:6; I Peter 1:3). (Let Bill Crump explain the grammatical significance of the conjunction "AND" and the preposition "OF" in those passages. Problem is that Bill is likely to ignore those passages because he knows that the truth in those passages will debunk the assumption that Jesus is God and/or that the Son is the Father.)

Let's also keep in mind John 20:17 -- Jesus himself said: "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Micah 5:2 does not say what Trinitarians are saying. In fact, Jesus had/has a beginning/an origin -- his birth and birthplace in Bethlehem and to be "the ruler" -- whereas the true God is without origin. Why would we expect God (instead of the Messiah) to be ruler from Bethlehem and have brothers? There's more to be said about this and other passages misused by those who try very, very hard to prove that Jesus is "God incarnate."

Shall we return to the topic of your thread -- traditions of the church?[/color]
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Curly
Curly

May 30th, 2016, 5:53 pm #13

Sorry, Ken brought up Noah and the Flood. Church Singing a Tradition?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 30th, 2016, 6:10 pm #14

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Curly,

"The flood." Why are we discussing Noah's flood? It appears that we may be deviating from the topic of your own thread?

But other matters you've brought up must be addressed.

We've discussed John 1:1 quite extensively. Let's keep in mind that the Scripture speaks of "THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST" (II Cor. 11:31; Eph. 1:3; 4:6; I Peter 1:3). (Let Bill Crump explain the grammatical significance of the conjunction "AND" and the preposition "OF" in those passages. Problem is that Bill is likely to ignore those passages because he knows that the truth in those passages will debunk the assumption that Jesus is God and/or that the Son is the Father.)

Let's also keep in mind John 20:17 -- Jesus himself said: "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Micah 5:2 does not say what Trinitarians are saying. In fact, Jesus had/has a beginning/an origin -- his birth and birthplace in Bethlehem and to be "the ruler" -- whereas the true God is without origin. Why would we expect God (instead of the Messiah) to be ruler from Bethlehem and have brothers? There's more to be said about this and other passages misused by those who try very, very hard to prove that Jesus is "God incarnate."

Shall we return to the topic of your thread -- traditions of the church?[/color]
Churches of Christ have held the TRADITIONS taught by God.

There are many different statements that make the ASSEMBLY the Assembly of Christ.
If we take the name OFF our public confession we refuse to confess Jesus THE CHRIST OF GOD and He will-has refused to confess you.

Before the year 2000 prophesied end of the 2 days and beginning of ANOTHER Day claiming that "the only role of church is WORSHIP." Of course that calls all of Scripture and the VIEWS of the historic church of Christ liars. Church was always a more or less place to worship God by giving heed to THE WORD of God.

Historic churches of Christ have held that the Word or Logos is the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE and no disciple should have the need to DEBUNK Jesus as our only Teacher.

Historic churches of Christ (the Rock) from the wilderness onward understood that noise-making machines are forbidden even if most preachers do not understand why.

Historic Churches have always observed the Lord's Supper each Lord's Day which is the only day God has called us out of the ANOTHER DAY of REST.

Historic Churches of Christ have always read the simple text in prophecy and fulfilment that Batism is FOR or in order or SO THAT Sins are washed away.

Historic Churches of Christ have denied that the Gift of A holy spirit (Ours according to Scott and the Campbells) and however the Spirit OF God lives in the faithful or baptized believer, it was not a person who "guided you beyond the sacred pages" as Fudge and the Fudgitesbelieve.

Historic Churches of Christ have held that as claimed by Jesus the SPIRIT of God is now in the WORD of God. No: no one ever said that the Bible was THE Holy Spirit Person. I was stupified when I returned to Middle Tennessee in 1980 and discovered that God is a trinity of three persons or people each with their own skills and ranking 1, 2, 3.

If you SPEAK where the Scriptures you will be a Christian-Disciple-Student even if the Lipscomb-Gospel Advocate teaching a view which the clergy taught but the "customers" found disturbint

Historic Churches of Christ have always understood that the Gospel is not a few facts ABOUT Jesus but the Gospel of the Kingdom or Church.

Historic Churches of Christ have always understood that the Church IS the Kingdom of God because Jesus REIGNS as King over His Kingdom: that reign will END and not begin when Jesus Returns.

Historic and still-faithful Churches of Christ believe Ephesians 4 that the APT vocational elders are the Pastor Teachers over the flock. Rubel Shelly perhaps invented the idea of a Located Missionary. An Evangelist must have a GO button or he is nothing. The Terminal-Terminated progressives have imposed the Senior Pastor as THE Leader while elders are just "shepherds of the preacher."




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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 30th, 2016, 6:14 pm #15

Ken didn't bring up the subject: I asked Donnie if he could find it. Dianne has some questions and I have since found most of my posts. That would update an EXISTING THREAD. But, Jesus didn't say that the whole globe was covered with about 17,000 feet of fresh water.
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Curly
Curly

May 30th, 2016, 7:14 pm #16

civ·il
ˈsiv(ə)l/
adjective
1.
of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters.
"civil aviation"
synonyms: secular, nonreligious, lay; More
2.
courteous and polite.
"we tried to be civil to him"
synonyms: polite, courteous, well mannered, well bred, chivalrous, gallant; More
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Ken, I think you are reading too much into the meaning of CIVIL.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 30th, 2016, 8:02 pm #17

You cannot imagine and impose any kind of musical performance--especially a hireling called Parasites in sacrificial systems--without having been strong deluded so that you believe your own lies and are damned. Jude and the Book of Enoch use the instrumental-trinitarian-perverted "play" at Mount Sinai fo DEFINE those who are PREDESTINED FOR THIS last assault (KAIROS time for the DEVIL) against the God as WORD or REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE which has God calling self-authoring preachers, singers or instrument players. The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 58 outlawed "seeking your own pleasure or SPEAKING YOUR OWN WORDS." Therefore, Jesus identified the SONS OF THE DEVIL as those who SPEAK ON THEIR OWN. Here is what kids who attended synagogue school and maybe watched the Jewish Clergy and Pagan religious rituals understood as the meaning of CIVIL.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ight=civil

People who are HIRED to direct your mind and body all week in the name of Jesus are barbarians and not civilized.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... /w#lexicon

Rick Atchley
: Many youth rallies hire bands to perform, and many of our Christian colleges have instrumental concerts. It’s about a preference.
The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that they’re going to find the least legalistic


You can recognize the Barbarians: they want you to believe that hanging you over the fires will give you a beautiful sun tan. In fact CIVIL and LITERATES understand that LEGALISM involves any of the Jesus-Marked hypocritic acts which require EXTREMELY hard work to be able to SELL your body parts and claim that they are MOVED by a spirit.

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.


He means that WE have BETRAYED the parents and failed to teach their children that GOD COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC: In fact, his-their PATTERN is for the GOAT BURNING for Israel which had already turned to BURNING infants. The Scape Goat is Azazel, the DEVIL.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
<font color="#FF0000">We discipled our children to leave our Movement!


That's why those who wlll be-are CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Their PATTERN explains why they are using sorcery (all musical terms) to PREPARE a place for their PREPARED Children.



"Sometimes he was represented as a horrible idol with fire burning inside so that what was placed in his arms was consumed. In the above illustration, a heathen priest has taken a baby from its mother to be offered to Molech. Lest the parents should relent, a loud noise was made on drums to hide the screams The word for drums is tophim from which the word 'Tophet,' the place mentioned in verses such as Jeremiah 7:31: ''They have built the high place of Tophet... to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire. While drums sounded, bands played, and priests chanted, human sacrifices were devoured in the flames." (Woodrow, p. 72-73).

The Authentia "authority" Paul outlawed because only women normally engaged in SELF-AUTHORING to make "everyone SAFE and come to a knowledge of the truth" impossible. Men now assume that position. Being SAFE in bearing children also included women who hatched children to feed the jaws of Molech at Jerusalem which Revelation calls Sodom and the Motheer of Harlots (selling your own self-authored songs and sermons).


</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on May 31st, 2016, 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 31st, 2016, 6:53 am #18

Sorry, Ken brought up Noah and the Flood. Church Singing a Tradition?
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]OK, it's been explained that Ken's question about Noah's flood was directed to Donnie (whose memory was severely tested ) ... and was not intended to be part of the discussion of "church traditions."

Is church singing a tradition? It is a tradition if worship is patterned after synagogue worship which was simple -- quite unlike the temple worship which included instrumental music and bloody sacrifices. It was comprised of a few elements including prayer, song, reading and Scripture study.

The history of "congregational singing" that we know today is subject to research, especially since it's been "revolutionized" as generations pass, but I doubt seriously that was the case in the early church.

I cannot envision the 1st century church having a designated "Worship Leader" leading the congregants into God's holy presence ... and a "Praise Team" performing to/for those present with microphones or whatever loud speaker system available at the time. No instrumental music (which was man's idea); otherwise, why not offer blood sacrifices and offerings?[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 31st, 2016, 7:19 am #19

Churches of Christ have held the TRADITIONS taught by God.

There are many different statements that make the ASSEMBLY the Assembly of Christ.
If we take the name OFF our public confession we refuse to confess Jesus THE CHRIST OF GOD and He will-has refused to confess you.

Before the year 2000 prophesied end of the 2 days and beginning of ANOTHER Day claiming that "the only role of church is WORSHIP." Of course that calls all of Scripture and the VIEWS of the historic church of Christ liars. Church was always a more or less place to worship God by giving heed to THE WORD of God.

Historic churches of Christ have held that the Word or Logos is the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE and no disciple should have the need to DEBUNK Jesus as our only Teacher.

Historic churches of Christ (the Rock) from the wilderness onward understood that noise-making machines are forbidden even if most preachers do not understand why.

Historic Churches have always observed the Lord's Supper each Lord's Day which is the only day God has called us out of the ANOTHER DAY of REST.

Historic Churches of Christ have always read the simple text in prophecy and fulfilment that Batism is FOR or in order or SO THAT Sins are washed away.

Historic Churches of Christ have denied that the Gift of A holy spirit (Ours according to Scott and the Campbells) and however the Spirit OF God lives in the faithful or baptized believer, it was not a person who "guided you beyond the sacred pages" as Fudge and the Fudgitesbelieve.

Historic Churches of Christ have held that as claimed by Jesus the SPIRIT of God is now in the WORD of God. No: no one ever said that the Bible was THE Holy Spirit Person. I was stupified when I returned to Middle Tennessee in 1980 and discovered that God is a trinity of three persons or people each with their own skills and ranking 1, 2, 3.

If you SPEAK where the Scriptures you will be a Christian-Disciple-Student even if the Lipscomb-Gospel Advocate teaching a view which the clergy taught but the "customers" found disturbint

Historic Churches of Christ have always understood that the Gospel is not a few facts ABOUT Jesus but the Gospel of the Kingdom or Church.

Historic Churches of Christ have always understood that the Church IS the Kingdom of God because Jesus REIGNS as King over His Kingdom: that reign will END and not begin when Jesus Returns.

Historic and still-faithful Churches of Christ believe Ephesians 4 that the APT vocational elders are the Pastor Teachers over the flock. Rubel Shelly perhaps invented the idea of a Located Missionary. An Evangelist must have a GO button or he is nothing. The Terminal-Terminated progressives have imposed the Senior Pastor as THE Leader while elders are just "shepherds of the preacher."




[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Ken,

I concur. It is noteworthy to make the distinction between the "historic churches of Christ" (Restoration Movement) and Progressive Churches of Christ (Change Movement). Here are a few examples from what you mentioned:

(a) Historic: Assembly of the saints giving heed to God's word
-------------- versus --------------
(b) Progressive: "Corporate worship" meaning "musical worship" with the Choir

(a) Historic: Noise-making machines are forbidden
-------------- versus --------------
(b) Progressive: God allowing the loud noise "as we bow down" to worship

(a) Historic: The church of Christ is the kingdom and Christ is its king
-------------- versus --------------
(b) Progressive: The Church is "universal" which includes all religious denominations

Just a few examples. Ken, have you considered creating a table or chart with columns differentiating between Scripture-based teachings and culture-driven, Community Church-leaning teachings?[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 31st, 2016, 2:48 pm #20

Please be civil.
Your format is better: We have listed most of the differences with the Word, Logos or Regulative Principle at the heart. Most of those boasting about two things which causes God to HATE THEM is sowing discord and having "singers" in the holy places turned into HOWLERS. They rejoice in "upsetting your comfort zones" in order to turn school into a SEEKER CENTER which was the CORE of Mein Kampf.

What has to be a CORE DECISION is the evidence that:

Those with a WORLD VIEW which they claim is Christian belong to the Kosmos and Satan is the real Kosmokrter. The NACC boast about converting churches to the instrumental sect by using a few defunct spirits. LOTS of evidence is that they are Earth Born Only. That is important in rejecting anything they do as sincere mistakes. They love their Purpose Driven Assignment.

Here is an old effort to try to separate Joe Beam but when you quote Scripture to him he threatens you in a believable way even if you keep e-mailing him.

From the list it is clear that it is not just a MUSIC issue but a spiritual DNA which means that it is impossible to paint a leopard to look like a lamb.

The Spirit OF Christ defined BLASPHEMY as despising Scriture and claiming that God said or permits something He did not say. They pour out a flood of wined-water. You can get a degree from LU in how to use your imagination to see visions:

Jer. 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer. 23:17 They say still unto them that DESPISE me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
Jer. 23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
Jer. 23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.


Fury is Wrath or an ORGY defined as the instrumental-sexual performances marked by the rise of the Worship Teams. Paul says that they corrupt the Word, sell non-learning at retail and are also defined by the CIVIL Greeks and the Old Testament as PROSTITUTES. It doesn't matter WHICH body part you sell in the name of the lord. However, here is prophetic hope because it is a TYPE:

Dan. 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan. 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan. 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Jer. 23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
Jer. 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
Jer. 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
Jer. 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
Jer. 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Jer. 23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
Jer. 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
Jer. 23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.


I am convinced that the progressives can write commentaries on Jeremiah and be the DOCTOR OF THE LAW preparing an end-time KAIROS COHORT (that gender thingy) to mount a final attack.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on May 31st, 2016, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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