West End Church of Christ, Nashville,Tn.

West End Church of Christ, Nashville,Tn.

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 24th, 2002, 2:43 am #1

How do you get a congregation to accept a "praise team" when over half
said they where happy with the current church worship services?

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ConcernedMembers
ConcernedMembers

October 29th, 2002, 12:42 am #2

The appointment of this minister in 1999 seems to show where the West End Elders planned to go long before they asks their members.

Look at this minister's past Church associations, to see clearly where Westend wants to go.

http://www.westendcoc.org/ken_dye.html
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on October 29th, 2002, 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B. Bowman
B. Bowman

November 23rd, 2002, 3:34 pm #3

I was surprised to read Ken Dye's resume on the West End Church of Christ Website. I have lived in Hendersonville for 17 years and at no time has the Hendersonville Community Church ever been called a church of Christ. Why in the world would they state that on their website?
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Trae
Trae

November 23rd, 2002, 11:01 pm #4

I was a member at the Stillwater church of Christ for a few years in the mid 90's and he wasn't there then. At the time, I thought the church was very 'liberal', but now it seems conservative by comparison.
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Joe McKnight
Joe McKnight

November 24th, 2002, 1:38 pm #5

I was surprised to read Ken Dye's resume on the West End Church of Christ Website. I have lived in Hendersonville for 17 years and at no time has the Hendersonville Community Church ever been called a church of Christ. Why in the world would they state that on their website?
Hendersonville Comm. Church was the Hendersonville Community Church of Christ for a few years after the split. They drop the name Church of Christ after the event a few years ago that cause such a turmoil.
One Sunday they drought in group of singers and their muscial instruments, this caused a preacher to be fired from David Lipscomb and an asist preacher to quit, and the congergation changed it's name.
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Joined: March 9th, 2002, 4:18 pm

November 25th, 2002, 4:19 pm #6

I was surprised to read Ken Dye's resume on the West End Church of Christ Website. I have lived in Hendersonville for 17 years and at no time has the Hendersonville Community Church ever been called a church of Christ. Why in the world would they state that on their website?
If you read closely, you will see they are talking about two different Churches. "The Hendersonvile Church of Christ" and the "Community Church of Christ" which is also in Hendersonville.
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A Life Time Member Of West End
A Life Time Member Of West End

December 30th, 2002, 3:31 pm #7

How do you get a congregation to accept a "praise team" when over half
said they where happy with the current church worship services?

Trick or Treat: Church Surveys


Warning! Don' take The Church Survey...... It's A Trick!

I have been a member at West End my entire life. I have seen a lot of changes and a lot of turmoil. My comment is until you know clearly what is going on don't criticize us.
I will admit West End has had its problems over the past several years. Actually our turmoil and problems started when Jim Bill retired over 15 years ago. Since then, it seems to have gone in waves or cycles. We will have periods of conflict and then periods where everything settles down. I will admit I don't agree with everything that has been decided by our elders or ministers. There have been times that I have been close to leaving (my parents left three years ago). I just can't go yet, because there are many good works and people who are working toward the Truth and serving God. We have had many faithful Christians and strong workers for the Lord leave over the past few years. It is interesting however, that these people have become members at both very progressive congregations and very conservative congregations in Nashville. West End has been riding a fence and trying to decide what to do, which has been killing it. Our new pulpit and youth ministers have brought positive changes and a renewed energy at West End. Definitely answers to many prayers.
Our biggest problem is not praise teams or small groups or entertainment. Those are only symptoms. Our biggest problem is a divided eldership, that masquerades itself as being unanimous and is not forth coming, honest, or open with its members. How can congregation grow and bless others when its leadership can't see eye to eye and its membership has no idea what is going on. They say we have no right to know and to some degree they are right. They accuse us of gossiping if we try to figure it out. But we are just looking for answers and the truth. Otherwise we feel lied to and don't trust our elders. It is a battle we have long been fighting but things are getting better.

As for the praise team, I admit I'm not a fan and wish we didn't have one. But there is nothing unscriptual about it. I can not pull out my Bible and find one scripture saying Thou shall not have a praise team or anything akin to it. I do think they hurt worship instead of help it, but that is a preference not scripture. Praise teams are not a salvation issue. They are merely a worship preference. Our praise is not upfront on the stage in an entertaining manner. They sit admist the audience with microphones. The women are not usurping anyone's authority. I will say that West End's praise team is not anything new. We have been trying to have one for the past five or six years. It is interesting however, the amount of problems that they have had with it, from sound equipment failure to a lack of finding anyone to consistently be on it or lead it. It has only really taken off in the last six months, but the leader has recently moved to Florida. I don't know if we will have the singers to keep it around.

For all its problems, I think West End is heading in a positive direction. God has not abandoned West End and the prayers of the faithful. We still have many problems to overcome and battles to fight, but we will not give up.
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Barbara Hill
Barbara Hill

January 3rd, 2003, 6:32 pm #8

No, it doesn't say "do NOT have a praise team" and it doesn't say "do not have coke and chips for the Lord's Supper" but it does say what we SHOULD do.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 3rd, 2003, 9:16 pm #9

I have been a member at West End my entire life. I have seen a lot of changes and a lot of turmoil. My comment is until you know clearly what is going on don't criticize us.
I will admit West End has had its problems over the past several years. Actually our turmoil and problems started when Jim Bill retired over 15 years ago. Since then, it seems to have gone in waves or cycles. We will have periods of conflict and then periods where everything settles down. I will admit I don't agree with everything that has been decided by our elders or ministers. There have been times that I have been close to leaving (my parents left three years ago). I just can't go yet, because there are many good works and people who are working toward the Truth and serving God. We have had many faithful Christians and strong workers for the Lord leave over the past few years. It is interesting however, that these people have become members at both very progressive congregations and very conservative congregations in Nashville. West End has been riding a fence and trying to decide what to do, which has been killing it. Our new pulpit and youth ministers have brought positive changes and a renewed energy at West End. Definitely answers to many prayers.
Our biggest problem is not praise teams or small groups or entertainment. Those are only symptoms. Our biggest problem is a divided eldership, that masquerades itself as being unanimous and is not forth coming, honest, or open with its members. How can congregation grow and bless others when its leadership can't see eye to eye and its membership has no idea what is going on. They say we have no right to know and to some degree they are right. They accuse us of gossiping if we try to figure it out. But we are just looking for answers and the truth. Otherwise we feel lied to and don't trust our elders. It is a battle we have long been fighting but things are getting better.

As for the praise team, I admit I'm not a fan and wish we didn't have one. But there is nothing unscriptual about it. I can not pull out my Bible and find one scripture saying Thou shall not have a praise team or anything akin to it. I do think they hurt worship instead of help it, but that is a preference not scripture. Praise teams are not a salvation issue. They are merely a worship preference. Our praise is not upfront on the stage in an entertaining manner. They sit admist the audience with microphones. The women are not usurping anyone's authority. I will say that West End's praise team is not anything new. We have been trying to have one for the past five or six years. It is interesting however, the amount of problems that they have had with it, from sound equipment failure to a lack of finding anyone to consistently be on it or lead it. It has only really taken off in the last six months, but the leader has recently moved to Florida. I don't know if we will have the singers to keep it around.

For all its problems, I think West End is heading in a positive direction. God has not abandoned West End and the prayers of the faithful. We still have many problems to overcome and battles to fight, but we will not give up.
Go back and read your comments and you will discover that whether standing or sitting the PRAISE TEAM is consuming an awful (awesome) amount of the GIVING HEED.

Remember that not in the entire Bible is the MUSIC word used of worship. The Qahal or assembly in Hebrew is translated as Ekklesia in the Greek version. The Qahal was the synagogue or "church in the wilderness."

God authorized TWO (2) Silver Trumpets to be used to signal tribal movements or to give battle movements. The word TRIUMPH or ALARM includes either blowing instruments and "making a joyful noise before the Lord." This was NOT worship but boasting to try to panic the enemy into cowardice.

God through Moses said that they could BLOW the trumpets when assembling the Qahal or synagogue which NEVER met except for instructing all of the tribes or their elder- leaders. This would be like a church bell.

Numbers 10:7 specificially says that they COULD NOT make these noises when the assembly was called.

The Israelite people NEVER worshiped with singing and music. Only the king, clergy and officials participated in the temple animal sacrifices. The loud "music" or sound during the BURNING PHASE was typical of the slaughter of Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

NO singer and NO musician was ever allowed into the Holy Place as a carnal type of the church. The SINGERS roaming around the temple were PROSTITUTES and the MUSICIANS were SODOMITES.

The ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION in the Intertestament period was the worship of Zeus and or Dionysus with music. This is why the Jewish clergy PIPED trying to force Jesus to sing and dance the perverted temple ritual. A homosexual atmosphere dominated.

The word MUSIC is the Greek SUMPHONIA and it is used ONLY of secular occasions which included drinking and dancing. A similar word MUSICIANS is used of the Babylon Harlot worship in Revelation 18. "Music" is derived from the 9 MUSES used by Apollo (or Abaddon or Apollyon) to seduce people into his commercial Seeker- Center at Delphi. He/she is Satan or Lucifer or ZOE MARKED by singing, music and dancing.

The Bible NEVER even commands "singing" which was a seculular often perverted activity or "external melody" which speaks of grinding the enemy into panic much like the TRIUMPH OVER outlawed by God. Paul commanded that the PREACHING or TEACHING be a "one another" activity, the RESOURCE to be "that which is written, the spirit, or the Word of Christ." The singing and melody would be meditating just as David did with his psalms.

When the MUSICAL role takes the place of the TEACHING emphasis you will have noticed that they VIOLATE the direct command of Paul that the RESOURCE is ALL the inspired metrical (singable) Biblical text.

This means that you are GIVING HEED to the LEGALISTIC WORKS effort of the TEAM and you CANNOT at the same time GIVE HEED to Christ through His Word. This means that NO WORSHIP can take place. And indeed since the HIRED HANDS violate the entire Bible and church History you are PAYING for the "doctors of the Law" which Jesus said "take away the key to knowledge." Jesus fired them and so should you. Since you have not elders APT to do the preaching-teaching role Peter gave YOU the authority to TAKE THE OVERSIGHT and begin teaching the FAILED institution or help lead them to safety.

Music has always been (like the wineskin creed) the MARK of male or female prostitutes EVEN in the Bible. Don't do it! The only authority of the elders is TEACHING authority and your OBEDIENCE is to follow his instructions and "watch the outcome of his life." Therefore, whether standing or sitting the male and female "youngers" ARE usurping the authority of the elders. Sometimes the elders are not ignorant: they may just be cowards under subjection to the rulership of "women and children" or women and the "effeminate."

Ken Sublett


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fish and chips
fish and chips

January 3rd, 2003, 10:16 pm #10

No, it doesn't say "do NOT have a praise team" and it doesn't say "do not have coke and chips for the Lord's Supper" but it does say what we SHOULD do.
OK, so we don't have coke and chips for the Communion. Then, LIKE THE ORIGINAL, lets have a full passover meal for communion. The original "Lord's Supper" WAS a passover meal. The Bible mentions the 3rd cup which was the cup of redemption it does not mention the other 4 cups, BUT they partook of them on that night. Also, the bread that they partook of was probably the 3rd piece of bread. You see it was broken into 3 pieces at the beginning of the meal (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and the Son is the middle piece, which they ate. Pretty Cool, huh?

Anyway, if we cannot have praise teams because the Bible does not mention it and we can only DO STUFF the Bible does mention, then lets go the whole way and ONLY DO STUFF the way the Bible SPECIFICALLY says to. YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS AND DO THINGS YOU CHOOSE TO DO THE WAY YOU WANT TO AND TELL OTHERS "NO,YOU CANNOT DO IT THAT WAY".

So, Let's all meet in the synagogue of your choosing or in someones home, lets live communally sharing our earnings and all our possessions and giving MOST of that away from the very beginning. Let's not pay any preachers or have ANY church buildings. Let's gather together MORE than we do and remember communion EACH AND EVERY time we get together, not just on Sundays. Let's LOVE EACH OTHER UNCONDITIONALLY!

Can we do all that??? Yes, we can, but WOULD we? You cannot have it both ways. If you choose to live BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW the way the pharasees did, then more power to you (reference the above) OR you can depend on God's Grace... I choose the latter.

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