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First of all, Jesus did not institute the Passover and did not command observance of it. He did command, "this do in remembrance of me", when He offered the unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine. This activity and subsequent command did take place during the 3rd cup, of four, of the Passover meal; however, Jesus did NOT command observance of the Passover.OK, so we don't have coke and chips for the Communion. Then, LIKE THE ORIGINAL, lets have a full passover meal for communion. The original "Lord's Supper" WAS a passover meal. The Bible mentions the 3rd cup which was the cup of redemption it does not mention the other 4 cups, BUT they partook of them on that night. Also, the bread that they partook of was probably the 3rd piece of bread. You see it was broken into 3 pieces at the beginning of the meal (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and the Son is the middle piece, which they ate. Pretty Cool, huh?
Anyway, if we cannot have praise teams because the Bible does not mention it and we can only DO STUFF the Bible does mention, then lets go the whole way and ONLY DO STUFF the way the Bible SPECIFICALLY says to. YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS AND DO THINGS YOU CHOOSE TO DO THE WAY YOU WANT TO AND TELL OTHERS "NO,YOU CANNOT DO IT THAT WAY".
So, Let's all meet in the synagogue of your choosing or in someones home, lets live communally sharing our earnings and all our possessions and giving MOST of that away from the very beginning. Let's not pay any preachers or have ANY church buildings. Let's gather together MORE than we do and remember communion EACH AND EVERY time we get together, not just on Sundays. Let's LOVE EACH OTHER UNCONDITIONALLY!
Can we do all that??? Yes, we can, but WOULD we? You cannot have it both ways. If you choose to live BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW the way the pharasees did, then more power to you (reference the above) OR you can depend on God's Grace... I choose the latter.
After reading your post and living through a church take over, I suggest it is time for you to run. Your defence for the praise team shows that you are starting to buy off on their lies, and once you start it is easy to slip into the pit with them. This is just a suggestion based on my experience, but if you stay put in place strong check and balances to know when it is time to leave.I have been a member at West End my entire life. I have seen a lot of changes and a lot of turmoil. My comment is until you know clearly what is going on don't criticize us.
I will admit West End has had its problems over the past several years. Actually our turmoil and problems started when Jim Bill retired over 15 years ago. Since then, it seems to have gone in waves or cycles. We will have periods of conflict and then periods where everything settles down. I will admit I don't agree with everything that has been decided by our elders or ministers. There have been times that I have been close to leaving (my parents left three years ago). I just can't go yet, because there are many good works and people who are working toward the Truth and serving God. We have had many faithful Christians and strong workers for the Lord leave over the past few years. It is interesting however, that these people have become members at both very progressive congregations and very conservative congregations in Nashville. West End has been riding a fence and trying to decide what to do, which has been killing it. Our new pulpit and youth ministers have brought positive changes and a renewed energy at West End. Definitely answers to many prayers.
Our biggest problem is not praise teams or small groups or entertainment. Those are only symptoms. Our biggest problem is a divided eldership, that masquerades itself as being unanimous and is not forth coming, honest, or open with its members. How can congregation grow and bless others when its leadership can't see eye to eye and its membership has no idea what is going on. They say we have no right to know and to some degree they are right. They accuse us of gossiping if we try to figure it out. But we are just looking for answers and the truth. Otherwise we feel lied to and don't trust our elders. It is a battle we have long been fighting but things are getting better.
As for the praise team, I admit I'm not a fan and wish we didn't have one. But there is nothing unscriptual about it. I can not pull out my Bible and find one scripture saying Thou shall not have a praise team or anything akin to it. I do think they hurt worship instead of help it, but that is a preference not scripture. Praise teams are not a salvation issue. They are merely a worship preference. Our praise is not upfront on the stage in an entertaining manner. They sit admist the audience with microphones. The women are not usurping anyone's authority. I will say that West End's praise team is not anything new. We have been trying to have one for the past five or six years. It is interesting however, the amount of problems that they have had with it, from sound equipment failure to a lack of finding anyone to consistently be on it or lead it. It has only really taken off in the last six months, but the leader has recently moved to Florida. I don't know if we will have the singers to keep it around.
For all its problems, I think West End is heading in a positive direction. God has not abandoned West End and the prayers of the faithful. We still have many problems to overcome and battles to fight, but we will not give up.
Dear Brother MarkFirst of all, Jesus did not institute the Passover and did not command observance of it. He did command, "this do in remembrance of me", when He offered the unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine. This activity and subsequent command did take place during the 3rd cup, of four, of the Passover meal; however, Jesus did NOT command observance of the Passover.
Secondly, where does our authority come from? Does Biblical silence authorize any activity? Did God have to specifically exclude the other 11 tribes when He commanded that the priests be Levites? Look up Hebrews 7:14, where it says that Moses said NOTHING concerning the tribe of Jesus being priests. Why did God kill Nadab and Abihu, during the act of worship, when they offered "strange fire" - that which the Lord did not command. Look at Leviticus 10:1, this was not a violation of a "thou shalt not" - it was an addition to an existing command. Paul wrote to the Corinthians in his first letter, "...that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant...", Chapter 4:6. If Biblical silence is permissive, there is no end as to what can be taught and practiced. Would this be consistent with the Scriptures? I think not.
Finally, who is trying to have it both ways? Whose authority are we going to follow? For it to be God's, it must be provided to us: "and whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus". We can sincerely look up to heaven and say, "I'm doing this for you, Lord"; however, that is not how we can assume authority. Jesus said, "not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven." Who is exhibiting the attitude of the Pharisee, here? The Pharisees were arrogant because they substituted their wisdom for God's, practiced showy piousness for self glorification, and bound traditions of men as commandments of God. My friend, God's grace comes with the responsibility, on our part, to live obediently to His rules - not ours. Christ's resurrection is the power through which we have received God's grace; however, it is conditional upon our obedience.
Well, I guess the church has been wrong for 1900 - 2000 years, and God has finally raised up a new prophet to enlighten us poor idiots who have been singing. Thank you so much for being able to interpret the scripture like no other person ever has. Come to think of it, even Jesus might have been in violation of the lack of a command regarding singing (as you obviously take Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 to mean "meditating like David did") when he and the apostles sung a hymn and went out to the Mount of Olives (Matthew 26:30).Go back and read your comments and you will discover that whether standing or sitting the PRAISE TEAM is consuming an awful (awesome) amount of the GIVING HEED.
Remember that not in the entire Bible is the MUSIC word used of worship. The Qahal or assembly in Hebrew is translated as Ekklesia in the Greek version. The Qahal was the synagogue or "church in the wilderness."
God authorized TWO (2) Silver Trumpets to be used to signal tribal movements or to give battle movements. The word TRIUMPH or ALARM includes either blowing instruments and "making a joyful noise before the Lord." This was NOT worship but boasting to try to panic the enemy into cowardice.
God through Moses said that they could BLOW the trumpets when assembling the Qahal or synagogue which NEVER met except for instructing all of the tribes or their elder- leaders. This would be like a church bell.
Numbers 10:7 specificially says that they COULD NOT make these noises when the assembly was called.
The Israelite people NEVER worshiped with singing and music. Only the king, clergy and officials participated in the temple animal sacrifices. The loud "music" or sound during the BURNING PHASE was typical of the slaughter of Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament.
NO singer and NO musician was ever allowed into the Holy Place as a carnal type of the church. The SINGERS roaming around the temple were PROSTITUTES and the MUSICIANS were SODOMITES.
The ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION in the Intertestament period was the worship of Zeus and or Dionysus with music. This is why the Jewish clergy PIPED trying to force Jesus to sing and dance the perverted temple ritual. A homosexual atmosphere dominated.
The word MUSIC is the Greek SUMPHONIA and it is used ONLY of secular occasions which included drinking and dancing. A similar word MUSICIANS is used of the Babylon Harlot worship in Revelation 18. "Music" is derived from the 9 MUSES used by Apollo (or Abaddon or Apollyon) to seduce people into his commercial Seeker- Center at Delphi. He/she is Satan or Lucifer or ZOE MARKED by singing, music and dancing.
The Bible NEVER even commands "singing" which was a seculular often perverted activity or "external melody" which speaks of grinding the enemy into panic much like the TRIUMPH OVER outlawed by God. Paul commanded that the PREACHING or TEACHING be a "one another" activity, the RESOURCE to be "that which is written, the spirit, or the Word of Christ." The singing and melody would be meditating just as David did with his psalms.
When the MUSICAL role takes the place of the TEACHING emphasis you will have noticed that they VIOLATE the direct command of Paul that the RESOURCE is ALL the inspired metrical (singable) Biblical text.
This means that you are GIVING HEED to the LEGALISTIC WORKS effort of the TEAM and you CANNOT at the same time GIVE HEED to Christ through His Word. This means that NO WORSHIP can take place. And indeed since the HIRED HANDS violate the entire Bible and church History you are PAYING for the "doctors of the Law" which Jesus said "take away the key to knowledge." Jesus fired them and so should you. Since you have not elders APT to do the preaching-teaching role Peter gave YOU the authority to TAKE THE OVERSIGHT and begin teaching the FAILED institution or help lead them to safety.
Music has always been (like the wineskin creed) the MARK of male or female prostitutes EVEN in the Bible. Don't do it! The only authority of the elders is TEACHING authority and your OBEDIENCE is to follow his instructions and "watch the outcome of his life." Therefore, whether standing or sitting the male and female "youngers" ARE usurping the authority of the elders. Sometimes the elders are not ignorant: they may just be cowards under subjection to the rulership of "women and children" or women and the "effeminate."
If you have lived in Hendersonville for that long you must be totally stupid or ignorant because up until 2000 the church that split from Hendersonville Church of Christ was called Hendersonville Community Church of Christ. It changed when Lipscomb responded to jerks who got their panties in an uproar and asked for Doug Varnado's resignation.I was surprised to read Ken Dye's resume on the West End Church of Christ Website. I have lived in Hendersonville for 17 years and at no time has the Hendersonville Community Church ever been called a church of Christ. Why in the world would they state that on their website?
OK so if you even read your bible then you do know it doesn't say we can't and as you pointed out it does tell us what to do. So show me the part about having a full time paid minister, a youth minister, a songleader (that's just one person), or dare I even say it a building. So unless you are worshiping in a home church or renting out a facility, everyone takes a turn starting the singing, and there is no paid minister at your church and never has been spare us the hipocracy.No, it doesn't say "do NOT have a praise team" and it doesn't say "do not have coke and chips for the Lord's Supper" but it does say what we SHOULD do.
Ken,Been sipping out of that new WINESKIN, huh?
While doing Fish and Chips you made a slip.
Jesus spoke UNDER THE LAW and contrary to the very meaning of the JUBILEE as a repudiation of the finished work of Lord Jesus Christ (full Deity), He also fulfilled the Passover. If you observe the "passover" you deliberately put yourself on the side of Egypt as the model of SIN and musical idolatry. You put yourself on the FAR side of the waters of baptism and the gift of the Spirit.
1Co.5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
We remember Christ as the SPIRITUAL PASSOVER, the Lamb of God and not the blood used to redeem the Israelites when God's better judgment decided that they should remain in their sin.
Paul took this BEFORE HIS DEATH beginning of the Lord's Supper to its completeness. They met EVERY FIRST day of the week and the fact that the Corinthians DID NOT meet for the Lord's Supper (not Passover) proves that they SHOULD Have met for that purpose.
Paul does not speak in terms of the Passover because that would repudiate the fact that the Lord's Supper was to remember Jesus Christ and not physical lambs. Furthermore, Paul said that we SHOW FORTH or preach the death of Christ.
I don't believe there is ANY GRACE to those who repudiate the direct commands of the Bible.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 TEACHING us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
How is GRACE going to cover your sins which GRACE taught you not to do??
The Pharisees deliberately ignored the Written Words of Christ the Spirit (1 peter 1:11) SO THAT they could folow their own COMMANDMENTS OF MEN. Jesus said that following the traditions of men made WORSHIP VAIN. So, the Pharisees belittle the inspired Word of Christ.
Musical worship teams makes VAIN WORSHIP because it ignores the clear teaching of Scripture which Jesus connected to the perverted MOUTH religion of the Jews.
Jesus quotes the statement in both Isaiah and Ezekiel 33 where God defined the Jews as looking for a beautiful voice and well played musical instruments: they were treating both God and Ezekiel as homosexual, musical performers. Jesus used this PATTERN to describe the Pharisees.
No one including Jesus ever CONDEMNED anyone for obeying the Revealed Word. Pharisees could care less as long as their long prayer performance gave them the chance to "steal the homes of widows."
THERE IS NO GRACE for anyone RESTING on Grace to forgive deliberate sins. Grace is NOT UNLIMITED FORGIVEMENT FOR UNLIMITED SINS. Grace is the POWER (Charisma) of God which ENABLES you to conform to His image and His Words. Dismiss the Word then kiss GRACE goodby: Jesus is not a performance preacher or a "musical praiser's" playmate of the week.
If you are part of a "praise team" then by returning to the olden days your "team members" will be prostitutes and sodomites: Yep, right there piping trying to get Jesus into the groove. The GYMNASIUM and the musical, homosexual worship of Zeus-Dionysus the homosexual god of the NEW WINE IN NEW WINESKINS was the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Places claiming to be GOD by claiming to musically "lead you into God's presence."
The end time Abomination of Desolation will be the same musicians or MUSES or a 9 member team under Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon. He is also Saturn worshiped and condemned by Amos 5 and 6. His/her Chaldee number is 666. I just have to believe that Apollo has turned his LOCUSTS loose. They are Apollo's musical performers:
Of musical heresy Clement notes what John may have warned against:
"The Locrian breaks a string. The grasshopper sprang on the neck of the instrument, and sang on it as on a branch; and the MINSTREL, adapting his strain to the grasshopper's song, made up for the want of the missing string. The grasshopper then was attracted by the song of Eunomos, as the fable represents, according to which also a brazen statue of Eunomos with his lyre, and the Locrian's ally in the contest, was erected at Pytho.
But of its own accord it flew to the LYRE, and of its own accord SANG, and was regarded by the Greeks as a musical PERFORMER.
But the dramas and the raving poets, now quite intoxicated, let us crown with ivy; and distracted outright as they are, in Bacchic fashion, with the SATYRS, and the frenzied RABBLE, and the rest of the DEMON crew, let us confine to Cithaeron and Helicon, now antiquated.
The locusts or grasshoppers DON'T EAT GRASS: they SEPARATE those MARKED by music from those MARKED by the word or Spirit of Christ. If you sing and clap along you are, in the Hebrew, "driving a tent peg" into the head of Jesus Christ. That is the STING OF DEATH.
Here is where it all began with a ZOE character:
Inanna bragged after stealing the gifts from EA or Satan type:
He gave me the art of lovemaking.
He gave me the art of kissing the phallus.
He gave me the art of prostitution.
He gave me the resounding musical instrument.
He gave me the art of song.
He gave me the art of the elder.
He gave me the kindling of strife
She is the end-time musical harlot of Revelation 18. She is EVE which Paul warned the women about. Eve is ZOE in the Greek translation. Eve was wholly seduced (sexually) by the serpent whose name identifies him/her as Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute: the Musical Enchanter. Eve or ZOE then easily led Adam into the same seduction. Better be quiet Christian women because of we Adams you CANNOT be visible and "performance" audible without exercising SEXUAL AUTHORITY over us. Woe to the women who are USED by men to SEDUCE people to help pay the bills!
COMMERCE as well as musical performers is one of the MARKS of the end time Prostitute worship.
That is what PAUL knew that YOU don't know when he OUTLAWED both "music" and women exercising "authority" which is the Greek authentia which is "both erotic and murderous." Check the content of the EROTIC praise songs trying to make love to a Holy God. There is NO GRACE to cover you for deliberate sin and recommending it to others.
Peter told Ananias and Sapphira that the property BELONGED TO THEM and there was no mandatory "communal living." Wrong fish shop.