Understanding Change Agents (by John Waddey)

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March 15th, 2014, 3:26 am #41

Sarge seems to show that one man's change agents are another's faithful conservative.

Show me where the Holy Spirit was the image by which Adam was modelled.. Or show where the H.S. took on the form of a man. See Genesis 1:26 and the passage where Christ humbled Himself and took on the form of a man.

Are the Jews mistaken when they refer to God as One? Deuteronomy 6:4-5.
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Bill
Bill

March 15th, 2014, 3:39 am #42

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Sarge/Coach,

You said earlier, "I think John Waddey was correct on some issues." I say, I agree with John Waddey on many, many issues -- that's much more than you agree with him.

I can say the same thing about Wayne Jackson.

They're both conservative and closer to the truth than any of the progressive, Community Church-leaning change agents operating in the brotherhood of the churches of Christ. That's why I post many of their articles and quote from their writings.

Having said that, I'm not going to pretend that I do not disagree with portions of their beliefs concerning the Holy Spirit. It is common knowledge that there are many teachers and preachers in the church who have that same perception as what they've learned from the commonly-held teachings regarding the Trinity since the Nicene-Constantinopolitan decree in the 4th century.

It would be interesting to discuss the Trinity or the Holy Spirit with men like them in a friendly manner. Unlike certain posters among us, those men, in my opinion, would be very willing to discuss details and specifics including the grammatical structure and definitions of words contained in the expression: "the holy Spirit OF God." When specific answers are given to specific questions, controversial biblical topics can be discussed intelligently. It's when one refuses to answer with specificity that a discussion dies.

I think I am very tolerant with fellow Christians when discussing controversial doctrinal issues. They're messages are being published, aren't they? When messages are no longer of discussion value, there's no choice but to opt not to publish them.

I'm publishing your post conerning the Trinity, although unrelated to the topic of this thread, only because you're "in your good behavior"

The only point I'm going to make here regarding the Holy Spirit is where I've already quoted the ignored passages [I've already mentioned them, in case you missed that part of my response]:

a) "The Spirit OF the Father" is a.k.a. "the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 10:20).

b) "The Spirit OF Jesus Christ" is a.k.a. "the Holy Spirit" (Phil. 1:19; Romans 8:9).

c) The expression "the holy Spirit OF God" (Eph. 4:30)

d) Those few of numerous passages clearly indicate God's holy Spirit is not a separate "PERSON" from either (1) God the Father or (2) God's Son -- the Lord Jesus Christ.

e) A Bible student who pays attention to details should be able to clearly analyze those references and safely conclude that our God's "holy Spirit" is not a separate being.

There's Bill Crump's post below yours waiting for publication. But I'm saving it and giving Bill a chance and time to transfer his post to one of the Trinity or Holy Spirit threads already in existence.[/color]

================

[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Correction from: "They're messages are being published, aren't they?"

That should've been "Their messages are being published, aren't they?"

Where's Dr. Crump when we need him to correct a mistake ... or ask him to explain to us the grammatical structure of the expression: "the holy Spirit OF God"?
[/color]
Donnie, if the Holy Spirit and Trinity are unrelated to this thread as you say, then there was no need for you to belabor your arguments about them yet again and rehash them in your response to Sarge/Coach. As you suggested about my as-yet unpublished post, you should follow your own advice and transfer your comments "to one of the Trinity or Holy Spirit threads already in existence."

If you will "practice what you preach," you will gain the respect of your readers.
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Bill
Bill

March 15th, 2014, 3:57 am #43

Sarge seems to show that one man's change agents are another's faithful conservative.

Show me where the Holy Spirit was the image by which Adam was modelled.. Or show where the H.S. took on the form of a man. See Genesis 1:26 and the passage where Christ humbled Himself and took on the form of a man.

Are the Jews mistaken when they refer to God as One? Deuteronomy 6:4-5.
Scripture, was Jesus mistaken when He referred to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matt. 28:19?

The Jews referred to God as one, meaning one God. Now we also have one Son (Jesus) and one Holy Spirit.
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March 15th, 2014, 2:17 pm #44

Show where the Holy Spirit was addressed in prayer.
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March 15th, 2014, 2:38 pm #45

Scripture, was Jesus mistaken when He referred to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matt. 28:19?

The Jews referred to God as one, meaning one God. Now we also have one Son (Jesus) and one Holy Spirit.
Bill

Jesus was misunderstood, not mistaken.
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Bill
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March 15th, 2014, 4:45 pm #46

Show where the Holy Spirit was addressed in prayer.
Show where the New Testament promises damnation if we look upon the Holy Spirit as a separate, divine being.
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Bill
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March 15th, 2014, 4:54 pm #47

Bill

Jesus was misunderstood, not mistaken.
I didn't ask if Jesus was "misunderstood" when He mentioned Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matt. 28:19. I asked if Jesus was MISTAKEN in that regard. Since it is obvious that Jesus was NOT mistaken, then we must take Him at His word, that mentioning THREE beings--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--is most significant. Jesus could have said for us to be baptized in the name of the Lord God only, but He DID NOT. Jesus felt it important enough to mention two other beings--the Son and the Holy Spirit--in addition to the Father.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 15th, 2014, 6:31 pm #48

Show where the New Testament promises damnation if we look upon the Holy Spirit as a separate, divine being.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]That's the typical Bill: EVASIVE.

We address God the Father (John 6:7; Eph. 6:23; Phil. 2:11; etc.) when we pray, as Jesus Christ himself ensampled in Matt. 6:9 -- "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name...."

NOT [address] the holy Spirit OF the Father.

... and we pray in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The question was simple; the answer is simple. There was no reason for you to deviate whatsoever.[/color]
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March 15th, 2014, 6:44 pm #49

I didn't ask if Jesus was "misunderstood" when He mentioned Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matt. 28:19. I asked if Jesus was MISTAKEN in that regard. Since it is obvious that Jesus was NOT mistaken, then we must take Him at His word, that mentioning THREE beings--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--is most significant. Jesus could have said for us to be baptized in the name of the Lord God only, but He DID NOT. Jesus felt it important enough to mention two other beings--the Son and the Holy Spirit--in addition to the Father.
Bill likes Matthew 28:19 better than Acts 2:38
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 15th, 2014, 6:49 pm #50

I didn't ask if Jesus was "misunderstood" when He mentioned Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matt. 28:19. I asked if Jesus was MISTAKEN in that regard. Since it is obvious that Jesus was NOT mistaken, then we must take Him at His word, that mentioning THREE beings--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--is most significant. Jesus could have said for us to be baptized in the name of the Lord God only, but He DID NOT. Jesus felt it important enough to mention two other beings--the Son and the Holy Spirit--in addition to the Father.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Scripture definitely answered your question: "... was Jesus mistaken when He referred to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matt. 28:19?"

Scripture responded: "Jesus was misunderstood, not mistaken."

How did you miss that?

There's also nothing wrong with Matt. 28:19 -- only your assumption that "the Spirit of" the Father [Matt. 10:20] or Jesus Christ [Phil. 1:19; Romans 8:9] is another PERSON or BEING.[/color]
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