Truth in love...Parables against the WISE: speakers, singers, instrument players

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 25th, 2015, 3:26 am #21

This thread encourages posters to have more civil discussions without name-calling. Now the most frequently used name-calling terms on CM seem to be "liar" and "antichrist," and it also seems that those terms are abused much too often. They should only be Scripturally used and not always when someone has a different Scriptural interpretation from the moderators. As examples...

If a person says, "Jesus is not the Christ," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus did not come in the flesh," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "I deny the Father and the Son," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus is God" and the moderators holler "liar" and "antichrist," they abuse the terms and resort to name-calling, because there is no Scripture that explicitly condemns the belief that Jesus is God.

Let's keep all this in mind during our discussions.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

If you say that Jesus the SON was-is God John-not me--calls such a one a liar. And call God a liar. No interpretation required,

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life;
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1John 5:13 These things have I written unto
.....you that believe on the name of the Son of God;
.....that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
.....and that ye may believe on the name of the Son<b> of God. </b>


It seems of Biblical Proportions that some cannot believe on the NAME of the Son of God. Jesus was never called God: His NAME was called EmanuEL. Those who say Jesus WAS God do not and probably cannot confess that He was the SON of God and therefore bore the NAME of the FATHER or generic "god" but not Jehovah.

You CANNOT believe in Christ if you say that He WAS GOD and not the SON OF GOD. John says that he has not written to you.

Check the box____ or ______

2John 3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace,
.....from God the Father,
.....AND
.....from the Lord Jesus Christ,
.....the Son of the Father, in truth and love.


Bill and Shrill say: Jesus was-is God.

Jesus of Nazareth in the FLESH was the seed of David. However, God MADE Him to be both Lord and Christ: Jesus was not born as either Lord or Christ.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
.....that God hath made
.....that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
.....both Lord and Christ


If you say that Jesus of Nazareth was GOD in the beginning and was God in the FLESH then the Spirit OF Christ and reading grade 6 defines you as a liar.

It is a strong delusion (promised from God) to say that God Jesus made Jesus of Nazareth both Lord and Christ and now God.

For minimalists readers if Jesus etal wrote that He was the SON of God, and others deny that and say that Jesus WAS GOD. You define it but I grow weary of the blasphemy.</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 25th, 2015, 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 25th, 2015, 3:43 am #22

This thread encourages posters to have more civil discussions without name-calling. Now the most frequently used name-calling terms on CM seem to be "liar" and "antichrist," and it also seems that those terms are abused much too often. They should only be Scripturally used and not always when someone has a different Scriptural interpretation from the moderators. As examples...

If a person says, "Jesus is not the Christ," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus did not come in the flesh," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "I deny the Father and the Son," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus is God" and the moderators holler "liar" and "antichrist," they abuse the terms and resort to name-calling, because there is no Scripture that explicitly condemns the belief that Jesus is God.

Let's keep all this in mind during our discussions.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Let the Scripture speak for itself. If it doesn't hit a nerve, you should be able to defend your position and let the discussion continue. If it hits a nerve, uh, maybe you should complain to the Scripture?[/color]
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Bill
Bill

June 26th, 2015, 12:31 am #23

Now that all sides have ranted and vented in their own way, perhaps there will be fewer cries of "liars and antichrists" around here, unless certain parties are bent on perpetuating their self-righteous campaign of condemning beliefs different from their own, but which the Scriptures do not explicitly condemn.
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Bill
Bill

June 26th, 2015, 4:07 pm #24

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Let the Scripture speak for itself. If it doesn't hit a nerve, you should be able to defend your position and let the discussion continue. If it hits a nerve, uh, maybe you should complain to the Scripture?[/color]
Now that everyone has vented in his own way, perhaps there will be fewer cries of "liars and antichrists" around here. Let's see if we can refrain from hurling that phrase so freely at those with differing beliefs but which beliefs the Scriptures do not explicitly condemn.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 26th, 2015, 5:13 pm #25

I believe debate is necessary and healthy for the church. We need to know what we believe, why we came to believe it, and that God led us to our beliefs through thoughtful personal study, open dialog with believers we respect and trust, and above all - prayer. A healthy body is a thinking body; one that doesn't accept an idea simply because it sounds right, or feels good. The topics in these pages should be discussed and debated, using God's Word as the cornerstone of every thought expressed.

I have but one exhortation to us all: that we speak out of love, respect and honor for one another, as we search for the truth. We are all children of the Most High God, and share a special and sacred kinship as brothers in the church of Christ. Jesus prayed for our unity. He knew it would be difficult for us. During His ministry, Jesus was bombarded with questions and concerns about His teachings, horror over the people with whom He associated, and slanderous accusations. What made Jesus so different was His ability to respond to opposition without the need to belittle or devalue. I think we all experience anger when our beliefs are challenged, but we should avoid statements that question the motives and character of the person, and focus rather on reaching consensus, if the topic is really that important.

Debate, yes! Disagree, certainly! Fight for the purity of the Bride of Christ, absolutely! Let us just remember to do so with love and respect for each other, recalling those times when WE were, in fact, the person who needed the word of wisdom. We should all extend the patience and grace to each other that has been showered upon us.

Peace and love to all of you!!!

______________________________
<blockquote>There can be no love when people mock Jesus instead of teaching what he commanded to be taught.

By definition of a Biblical or historic Church of Christ, Direct Commands, Biblical Examples and Necessary Inferences [the Logos] outlaws non Biblical sermons, performance singing or musical instruments replacing the building or educating by the Prophets and Apostles [Eph. 2:20]. Because of MOCKING by vocal and instrumental idolatry at Mount Sinai, God sentenced the Jews to captivity and death beyond Damascus [Amos 5:2] or beyond Babylon [Acts 7:43]. Giving false teachers no option, Jesus said that God hides from the wise or sophists who are rhetoricians, singers or instrument players. In Ephesians 4 elders as Pastor-Teacher's must remove these hypocritic performers who are marked as Lying in Wait to Deceive. In end-time prophesied Babylonianism [Rev. 17f] religious musicians are called sorcerers to be cast alivie into the Lake of Fire. They are foreordained writes Jude. Of Judas Sicarri (Assassin)-

Psa 41:11 By this I know that thou favourest me, because mine enemy [Judas] doth not triumph over me.
The warrior Levites would sound with the zither to defeat Messiah

http://www.piney.com/DSSPsa41.html

The alarm or mocking outlawed for the Church in the wilderness is. H7321 Ruwah to mar (especially by breaking); figuratively to split the ears (with sound), shout (for alarm or joy):--blow an alarm for war or idolatry [Ex. 32:18], make a joyful noise, smart, triumph.



<font face="arial" size="4">Mark to watch for: Large Staff selling the free water of the Word

http://www.piney.com/Isaiah.55.Word.Spirit.html

There is no law of laying by in store for musical performers, drums or non teaching staff.

Isa 57:4 Against whom do ye SPORT yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood, [of the World or Ecumenical kingdom of the Devil]

Mark: the Law of Silence:

http://www.piney.com/The.Law.of.Silence.Isaiah.57.html

Mocking or Sport in Latin is: lūdo Especially to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song: [Muses led by Apollon] caneret, eloquence, flute, harp, guitar, tibia. pretend work.

Mark to watch for: seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words

http://www.piney.com/Isaiah.58.html

In Romans 15 Paul outlawed self pleasure and commanded "speaking that which is written for our learning"

-PROPHETIC TYPES FULFILLED to signal the end of the Law of bondage "added because of Instrumental Play" or Mocking at Mount Sinai. See

http://www.piney.com/Exodus.32.html and Psalm 41

Mark 10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chiefpriests, and unto the scribes [hypocrites: speakers, singers, instrument players Ezekiel 33] and they shall condemn him to death,
and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

Mark 10:34a And they shall MOCK him, http://www.piney.com/Mark.10.And.they.s ... k.Him.html

Mocking in Greek: They Rose up to Play: [1] Paizo, 4. play on a musical instrument, play amorously, To be deluded mock, jest [2] Prospaizō, theous p. sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour, Erōta sang a hymn in praise of Eros,“rhētoras” Galli ton arkton humnon or effeminate a cappella hymn leader.

1Cor. 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up [against God] to PLAY. [vocal or instrumental music and sexual play Romans 1]
1Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: [Patterns] and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come

SECULAR EXAMPLES which informed Paul: The Greek Psallo is derived from Apollon's bow and lyre Made by Hermes-Kairos [time to attack] and is similar to the story of Jubal who "handled" instruments Without Authority.

Plato. Phaedrus 262d perhaps too, the prophets of the Muses, who are singing above our heads, Mousōn prophēta [The female Muses or LOCUSTS Led by Apollon]

Vergil A. 9.634 Of such loud insolence and words of shame [Cano=sing and play] Ascanius brooked no more, but laid a shaft athwart his bowstring, while the deadly bow resounded and the arrow's fearful song hissed from the string; it struck unswervingly the head of Remulus and clove its way deep in the hollows of his brow. “Begone! Proud MOCKER at the brave! Then from heaven the flowing-haired Apollon bent his gaze [Apollon is "Musegetes" Leader of the Muses, locusts, singers, players, sorcerers]
Babylonian Praise Singers were needed to keep the gods from failing.

Mark 10:34b and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again
Job 17:6 He hath made me also a byword of the people; and aforetime I was as a tabret. [from Topheth or Hell].

This message has been added by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jan 19, 2017 10:49 PM</font>
</blockquote>______________________________
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]There have been 23 responses to the initial post up to this point. Of that number 8 posts come from one whose rantings mention "liars" and "antichrists" 7 times. Wonder why?

This forum will continue to quote scriptural passages that are pertinent to the topic being discussed: idolatry, musical idolatry, instrumental music, grace, baptism, "Trinity," "the Holy Spirit," etc.

The message in the initial post of this thread will remain as a "sticky note" for now.
[/color]
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Lindsey
Lindsey

August 29th, 2015, 9:12 pm #26

This thread encourages posters to have more civil discussions without name-calling. Now the most frequently used name-calling terms on CM seem to be "liar" and "antichrist," and it also seems that those terms are abused much too often. They should only be Scripturally used and not always when someone has a different Scriptural interpretation from the moderators. As examples...

If a person says, "Jesus is not the Christ," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus did not come in the flesh," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "I deny the Father and the Son," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus is God" and the moderators holler "liar" and "antichrist," they abuse the terms and resort to name-calling, because there is no Scripture that explicitly condemns the belief that Jesus is God.

Let's keep all this in mind during our discussions.
It is not scriptural and loving to have the moderators abuse the labels "liar" and "antichrist." Why are we fighting and disgracing the name of Jesus and the Church he died for with such divisive language, tone, and spirit? LR
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

August 30th, 2015, 2:21 am #27

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Good point, Lindsey. Thanks.

I just did a search for the word "antichrist" and here's what I found ("liar": once; "antichrist: 5 times):

[/color]
[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times][18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (I John 2, KJV)

[3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (I John 4, KJV)

[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (II John 1,KJV)
[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I personally believe that Christians should not suppress the Holy Scripture and its intent to speak the truth. I also believe that this truth should not offend anyone who is strong in the faith and has the confidence, the spiritual fortitude to withstand others' reactions in the course of a discussion when these passages are quoted.

(Unfortunately, Bill, you've made a "big deal" out of the passages quoted -- and that may be your own doing. In reality, the passages should not be offensive to you if you feel strongly that the truth in them does not apply to you nor affect you.)[/color]
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Bill
Bill

August 30th, 2015, 9:26 pm #28



[. . .]
[. . .]

=======================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Ranting #9 removed.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on September 2nd, 2015, 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill
Bill

August 30th, 2015, 9:42 pm #29

It is not scriptural and loving to have the moderators abuse the labels "liar" and "antichrist." Why are we fighting and disgracing the name of Jesus and the Church he died for with such divisive language, tone, and spirit? LR
Thanks, Lindsey, for rebuking the moderators because [ . . . ]

==========================


[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Same ranting #10 removed.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on September 2nd, 2015, 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill
Bill

August 30th, 2015, 10:16 pm #30

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]There have been 23 responses to the initial post up to this point. Of that number 8 posts come from one whose rantings mention "liars" and "antichrists" 7 times. Wonder why?

This forum will continue to quote scriptural passages that are pertinent to the topic being discussed: idolatry, musical idolatry, instrumental music, grace, baptism, "Trinity," "the Holy Spirit," etc.

The message in the initial post of this thread will remain as a "sticky note" for now.
[/color]
[ . . . ]


==========================


[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Same ranting #11 removed.[/color]

Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on September 2nd, 2015, 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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