Three Change Agents Implicated in Seditious Plot to Dismantle the Church of Christ

Three Change Agents Implicated in Seditious Plot to Dismantle the Church of Christ

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 20th, 2011, 6:05 am #1

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 4th, 2013, 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

April 20th, 2011, 6:35 am #2

Like I said Donnie....and you heard it right.....even if just ONE church of Christ uses instrumental music, and we are all sister congregations, THEN NO ONE can claim that the church of Christ is a capella. Several churches of Christ have kept the name. They could care less of you squealing about them being a community or saddleback influenced church. They are STILL a church of Christ. WHY? Because instrumental does NOT define who the church of Christ is. Jesus Christ defines the church.
So keep up your squealing Donnie. It will not matter...not even a little.
Ask your stupid questions about my church. I love my congregation. Wish you could say the same about yours.....
Donnie, your writing is leaning towards a fair amount of desperation. Have you noticed???
Hey man, if you can't whip em.......LOVE EM!!!!

I forgot Done......talking about love again....I realize that is a sore subject around you guys.

Donnie, it is best if you and William went back to grading the grammatical errors. Interpretation of the Word just isn't your forte.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 20th, 2011, 8:34 am #3

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I know you are very capable of initiating a new thread on "love." Why don't you? "I wanna know what love is." Um ... like ... um ... one who performs or plays the piano to and for the congregants has love; and all the other brethren who simply teach and admonish one another through singing have no love. Wow! You're awesome, dude. You know their hearts.

Did you notice a few of the churches listed above that dropped the name of Christ? Yes, the famous "Oak Hills Church [formerly 'of Christ']"

You may have a point about "just one church" going instrumental. I'm reminded of the passage: "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind," and the entire body, the church of Christ, became "instrumental." Great logic, Dave.

What about this: one congregation of the church of Christ was infiltrated by Roman Catholicism and began worshiping the Virgin Mary and venerating the dead "saints." And the entire church of Christ became the Roman Catholic Church.[/color]

Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

April 20th, 2011, 12:12 pm #4

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Donnie,
I have never met you, but I do know that you have a troubled soul, one that shows a lack of love for your brothers who you disagree with.
Remember the concernedmembers site statement that I was speaking of the other day? The now famous saying goes " "No one here will admonish anyone for worshipping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct."

Wow, I can't believe that you guys would leave that in print. How many times have you cut people down on this site for disagreeing with you guys? Countless times. NO LOVE!
Donnie, you just don't call down the elders of your church here for public viewing and ridicule. That is blatant sin and nothing more. If you have something against them you should have taken this to them, privately, or if need be (with witnesses) in front of your congregation, but NEVER here. You KNOW better, but have chosen WILLFULLY to sin against your church, and more importantly, your Lord.

That was also foolish to try and parallel the issue of instrumental music with the Catholic worship of Mary.
The music has proved to be only of preferrence, where we know (maybe I shouldn't assume that you know this is wrong) the act of worshiping anyone else other than God is forbidden.
No Donnie, you don' have love and have chosen to look at the issue of music with both eyes blinded;.

Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

April 20th, 2011, 1:36 pm #5

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I know you are very capable of initiating a new thread on "love." Why don't you? "I wanna know what love is." Um ... like ... um ... one who performs or plays the piano to and for the congregants has love; and all the other brethren who simply teach and admonish one another through singing have no love. Wow! You're awesome, dude. You know their hearts.

Did you notice a few of the churches listed above that dropped the name of Christ? Yes, the famous "Oak Hills Church [formerly 'of Christ']"

You may have a point about "just one church" going instrumental. I'm reminded of the passage: "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind," and the entire body, the church of Christ, became "instrumental." Great logic, Dave.

What about this: one congregation of the church of Christ was infiltrated by Roman Catholicism and began worshiping the Virgin Mary and venerating the dead "saints." And the entire church of Christ became the Roman Catholic Church.[/color]
Dave claims that if just one Church of Christ congregation uses instruments, then the ENTIRE Church of Christ as a whole can no longer say it practices a cappella worship. I believe that kind of "logic" is flawed...let's say wrecked.

Dave's "logic" would condemn an entire group of innocent people for one person's crime. Dave would condemn the righteous with the wicked. It's the same as saying that if one person in a town is guilty of murder, then all the other residents of that town are guilty of murder. It's the same as saying that if a car manufacturer turns out one "lemon," then all the cars from that company are lemons. That's asinine and completely insane. Yet that's the kind of unspeakable nonsense Dave and his change-agent cohorts would have us believe about the Church of Christ, just because a few rogue congregations have decided to join the denominations and implement instrumental music.

Be truthful: Only those few congregations that have instruments should drop the name "Church of Christ" and be cast away from the vast majority of our mainstream congregations that still adhere to the New Testament.
Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

April 20th, 2011, 3:15 pm #6

Like I said Donnie....and you heard it right.....even if just ONE church of Christ uses instrumental music, and we are all sister congregations, THEN NO ONE can claim that the church of Christ is a capella. Several churches of Christ have kept the name. They could care less of you squealing about them being a community or saddleback influenced church. They are STILL a church of Christ. WHY? Because instrumental does NOT define who the church of Christ is. Jesus Christ defines the church.
So keep up your squealing Donnie. It will not matter...not even a little.
Ask your stupid questions about my church. I love my congregation. Wish you could say the same about yours.....
Donnie, your writing is leaning towards a fair amount of desperation. Have you noticed???
Hey man, if you can't whip em.......LOVE EM!!!!

I forgot Done......talking about love again....I realize that is a sore subject around you guys.

Donnie, it is best if you and William went back to grading the grammatical errors. Interpretation of the Word just isn't your forte.
Although Dave said the discussion about instrumental music was "over," he still stays up all hours of the night posting his penny-ante arguments about it. Dave says one thing, then turns around and does something else.

Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 20th, 2011, 4:30 pm #7

Donnie,
I have never met you, but I do know that you have a troubled soul, one that shows a lack of love for your brothers who you disagree with.
Remember the concernedmembers site statement that I was speaking of the other day? The now famous saying goes " "No one here will admonish anyone for worshipping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct."

Wow, I can't believe that you guys would leave that in print. How many times have you cut people down on this site for disagreeing with you guys? Countless times. NO LOVE!
Donnie, you just don't call down the elders of your church here for public viewing and ridicule. That is blatant sin and nothing more. If you have something against them you should have taken this to them, privately, or if need be (with witnesses) in front of your congregation, but NEVER here. You KNOW better, but have chosen WILLFULLY to sin against your church, and more importantly, your Lord.

That was also foolish to try and parallel the issue of instrumental music with the Catholic worship of Mary.
The music has proved to be only of preferrence, where we know (maybe I shouldn't assume that you know this is wrong) the act of worshiping anyone else other than God is forbidden.
No Donnie, you don' have love and have chosen to look at the issue of music with both eyes blinded;.
Christ teaches HIS preferences: to think that you have a preference is called blasphemy.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
......and the unrighteous man his thoughts:
......and let him return unto the LORD,
......and he will have mercy upon him;
......and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
......neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
......so are my ways higher than your ways,
......and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven,
......and returneth not thither,
......but watereth the earth,
......and maketh it bring forth and bud,
......that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
......it shall not return unto me void,
......but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Let's face it: some people cannot confess that Jesus is Lord and they are not. If you don't get it you don't get it and no level of "scholarship" will let you in on Christ's secrets until you have been baptized INTO Christ. We are baptized not BY but INTO the Word of Christ. That is, we are inducted into disciplship to Jesus Christ and you cannot be a folower of Christ walking in His steps if you go into the MARKETPLACE religions where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and instrument players.

When you deny clear statements of Scripture that means that you have been taken captive and need reprograming which probably wont work.
Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

April 21st, 2011, 4:39 am #8

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Ken,
You still espousing the ole 'speak that which is written' theory, but then you don't speak that which is written.
Greek mythology, the book of Enoch (yes I am still looking for it....could it be after Isaiah???).
Worst of all, you try and speak for Jesus. YOU are the blasphemer. You try to interpret what Jesus says about music, and it is NOWHERE in site within the Scriptures.
It is just YOUR wishful thinking.
Ken, it looks like your mind has been blinded and shut down because you continue to be the devil's advocate.
You reap what you sow........
Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 21st, 2011, 6:30 am #9

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]David,

Your own wishful thinking is found in Psalm 150. But Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 say differently. In fact, the truth strongly emphasized in those passages is not even music. Rather, it is about this -- the REAL COMMAND: "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another...in songs."

The REAL COMMAND in the other passage is this: "Speaking to yourselves in...songs....

Psalm 150 never indicates your claim that it is a God-ordained command. God has NEVER commanded His followers during the Old Testament era to worship Him with "the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music..." (Daniel 3) as King Nebuchadnezzar did.

Have you read other passages in the OT showing King David's personal activities as a king and a very skilled musician, as a nudist [I might add, but don't let that upset you].

(1) Music history reveals that "music ... almost DEMANDS dancing [and clapping] where the body gyrates in sync" with the tempo and/or change of tempo of the music.

(2) Scripture plainly reveals that dancing and musical instruments and even idolatry are connected in many instances. Here are a few of several passages in Scripture for your reading pleasure:[/color]
  • And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. (Exo. 15:20)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. (Exo. 32:19)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music. (I Sam. 18:6)

    </li>
  • Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. (Psalm 149:3)

    </li>
  • Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (Psalm 150:4)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart. (I Chron. 15:29)

    </li>
  • Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands? (I Sam. 29:5)
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]
Dave, you keep reminding us that we do NOT have LOVE. And you do? You must be confusing the reader. Remember: "If ye LOVE me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS." Since I haven't met you and do not know you, it's not for me to say whether or not you have LOVE and KEEP His commandments. But I'll give you the benefit -- that you think about love as being other than "keeping His commandments"; i.e., that love can be demonstrated by the way "a brother in Christ" posts and responds to messages online. Is that it? If so, I believe that you can improve on that one.

Why improve on it? You have just personally labeled a brother in Christ as a "blasphemer" -- actually: "the blasphemer." If I were you I would just leave that to God's judgment.[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 21st, 2011, 7:02 am #10

Donnie,
I have never met you, but I do know that you have a troubled soul, one that shows a lack of love for your brothers who you disagree with.
Remember the concernedmembers site statement that I was speaking of the other day? The now famous saying goes " "No one here will admonish anyone for worshipping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct."

Wow, I can't believe that you guys would leave that in print. How many times have you cut people down on this site for disagreeing with you guys? Countless times. NO LOVE!
Donnie, you just don't call down the elders of your church here for public viewing and ridicule. That is blatant sin and nothing more. If you have something against them you should have taken this to them, privately, or if need be (with witnesses) in front of your congregation, but NEVER here. You KNOW better, but have chosen WILLFULLY to sin against your church, and more importantly, your Lord.

That was also foolish to try and parallel the issue of instrumental music with the Catholic worship of Mary.
The music has proved to be only of preferrence, where we know (maybe I shouldn't assume that you know this is wrong) the act of worshiping anyone else other than God is forbidden.
No Donnie, you don' have love and have chosen to look at the issue of music with both eyes blinded;.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

You are almost as slick as the change agents. You quoted the following:[/color]
"No one here will admonish anyone for worshipping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct."
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]When you quote it next time, don't mislead the readers. Here's the accurate quote:[/color]
"No one here will admonish anyone for worshipping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct. However, when someone subverts an existing Church by secrecy and deceit against the principles of its founders and members<u>...

</u>
...WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
The below listings are links to various church member sites where the members discuss what's happening at their church, and learn about the problems causing division and take-overs.
Quote
Like
Share