Dave
Dave

April 25th, 2011, 12:52 am #21

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Donnie, you said..."In verse 6, it says: "Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD." That includes everything else besides human beings. Could this be how the Roman Catholic Church derived the doctrine of bringing favorite pets to a gathering for the blessing of the pets?"

THAT is the essence of the problem Donnie....THAT very attitude. You DO NOT want the truth....you want to win an argument....at all costs....including your soul.

That comment from you was insidious and incompetent.
Again, you know better, but you have chose to show disdain for the Truth.
You want to ABUSE Scripture to win an argument. This response hinges on your attitude, not your response to Roncar. It will be WITHOUT rebuttal, for you certainly do not deserve nor will garner such a rebuttal. Even those outside the Lord would think that you are jesting. It is not funny.

Donnie, when David sang and dance and PLAYED before the Lord, THAT is what he meant when "Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD." Again, you knew that but you continue to mock the Scriptures. So because David played the lyre and other instruments that we don't use today, we can't follow Psalms 150 at all? If we don't dance as David did, then we can't do anything he did that was shown to praise God? Donnie, the best advice that you could take from anyone is to stop right now while your way behind.
Again, Donnie, you are in contempt of God's Word. Maybe if no one else will tell, know this....I was the first to do so, and I will continue to do so.
You have all but cursed your very self to hell by continuing to degrade King David, whom God loved deeply.
So talk about David being naked, and him dancing and playing, but know this. God loved David, and for some reason Donnie He still loves you, but if you don't think for a minute your satanic ways and antics will not lead you to hell, think again.
I know that this is falling on deaf ears, because you are most likely already beyond damage control. You rebuke the Lord's churches and hold their elders up for public ridicule....why should anyone expect anything better from you?
Donnie, I know you will not answer this, which is fine, but just think about it....if the Lord came right now.....would you expect anything less than hell?
Quote
Share

Dave
Dave

April 25th, 2011, 1:05 am #22

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Blame someone Donnie?
YOU get the blame....let us concentrate on YOU.
YOU are to blame!

I Timothy 5
19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

Donnie,
This onslaught was brought on by you. Name one other witness besides you.
Just one. You have brought these elders up for public ridicule then who would be another NAMED witness. Even if you could come up with another witness, listen to what the Word continues to say. Even if you don't listen, like you never have before, others will know of how wicked you are Donnie.

2 Timothy 2
25Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Regardless of what you might say, and I know that you will continue your rant and excuse making, you have failed to do the will of God.
Failed miserably.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 25th, 2011, 1:20 am #23

H5397 neshâmâh nesh-aw-maw' From H5395 ; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal:blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

If you cannot "make yourself vile" with ALL of those instruments used by the VILE then you are a hypocrite. Since poems tend to be poetic, if Halal 150 is not poetic then you have David COMMANDING that you use those instruments derived from the world of making war and prostitution."

God loves sinners: He NEVER approved of David's musical performance IN the Sancturary since he could not go INTO the sanctuary: the exception when he was starving proves the rule that neither David nor any Levite ever played a musical instrument in a Holy Place typicle of the Church.

Since God abandoned the nation to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST all bible readers and the Jewish encyclopedia and all writers during this period then you are PROMOTING the worship of the starry host instead of the Creator of the stars.

Under "Star Worship" the Jewish Encyclopedia states:

"Star Worship" is perhaps the oldest form of idolatry practiced by the ancients. The observation of the stars in the East very early led the people to regard the planets and the fixed stars as gods. The religion of the ancient Egyptians is known to have consisted preeminently of Sun-worship. Moses sternly warned the Israelites against worshipping the Sun, Moon, stars, and all the hosts of heaven (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:3). The Israelites fell into this kind of idolatry and as early as the time of Amos they had the images of Siccuth and Chium, 'the stars of their god' (Amos 5:26); the latter name is generally supposed to denote the planet Saturn. That the Kingdom of Israel fell earlier than that of Judah is stated (II Kings 17:16) to have been due, among other causes, to its worshipping the host of heaven.

But the Kingdom of Judah in its later period seems to have outdone the Northern Kingdom [Israel] in star-worship." Of Manasseh it is related that he built altars to all the hosts of heaven in the two courts of the house of YHWY, and it seems it was the practice of even Kings before him to appoint priests who offered sacrifices to the Sun, the Moon, the planets, and all the hosts of heaven. Altars for star-worship were built on the roofs of the houses, and horses and chariots were dedicated to the worship of the Sun. (II Kings 21:5; 23:4-5, 11-12) Star-worship continued in Judah until the 18th year of Josiah's reign (621 B.C.) when the King took measures to abolish all kinds of idolatry. But although star-worship was then abolished as a public cult, it was practiced privately by individuals who worshipped the heavenly bodies, and poured out libations to them on the roofs of their houses (Zephaniah 1:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13) Jeremiah, who prophesied in the sixth year of the captivity of Jehoiachin (591 B.C.) describes the worship of the Sun as practiced in the court of the Temple (Ezekiel 8:16) and that even after the destruction of the Temple the women insisted on continuing to worship the Queen of Heaven.
"The ancient Hebrews, being nomads like the Arabs, favored the Moon, while the Babylonians, who were an agricultural nation, preferred the Sun. But, as appears from Ezekiel 20:7-8 the Moon-worship of the Israelites, even while they were still in Egypt was combined with Sun-worship."


Maybe you guys are PREDESTINED?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 25th, 2011, 3:01 am #24

Blame someone Donnie?
YOU get the blame....let us concentrate on YOU.
YOU are to blame!

I Timothy 5
19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

Donnie,
This onslaught was brought on by you. Name one other witness besides you.
Just one. You have brought these elders up for public ridicule then who would be another NAMED witness. Even if you could come up with another witness, listen to what the Word continues to say. Even if you don't listen, like you never have before, others will know of how wicked you are Donnie.

2 Timothy 2
25Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Regardless of what you might say, and I know that you will continue your rant and excuse making, you have failed to do the will of God.
Failed miserably.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

According to Dave [YOU], Donnie is the problem and is, therefore, responsible for implementing the Community Church's scheme to "grow the church" at Madison. That Donnie taught Madison Rick Warren's culture-driven philosophy from his manual: "The Purpose Driven Church." That Donnie caused the elders to be divided between these decisions: (1) should Madison go the Community Church way or (2) should Madison remain peaceful and a city on the hill without influences by the change agents? That Donnie caused the division in its membership where hundreds of members left in droves.

Well, Dave, it is unfortunate that you've come to that conclusion. Where's your source of information?

Although ConcernedMembers was not even conceived until way AFTER the leadership had already succumbed to the slick and subtle but destructive ways of the agents of change, with the intrusion and the subversion process virtually complete, at least it was there to observe firsthand what was going on. (And some poor and unknown--and is still--Donnie joined CM even later than that.)

Again, your conclusion that Donnie was/is the problem and caused the havoc in the church, is purely a prevarication on your part.

Here we are discussing "instrumental music" ... supposedly. And you, Dave, just can't help but bring up "the elders" issue. And I have patiently explained it over and over to you. But nothing has sunk in. Just what is your problem? Are you no longer an elder yourself?

While the Scripture teaches that we are to "rebuke not an elder" [and I haven't done that] and that the elders are to "be counted worthy of double honour" [and I am for that], it is contingent upon:

(1) That the elders rule well;
(2) That they are to labor in word and doctrine;
(3) That they are to be blameless;
(4) That they are holding fast the faithful word...
(5) ... as they have been TAUGHT.
(6) [I'm sure you know all the other qualifications]

Well, Dave, I have no control over wrong decisions they make. And you know, too, that they're no longer human if they no longer make mistakes and no longer take responsibility for those mistakes.

The truth of the matter is that you are one of those in the church who continue to preach your own denominationally-acquired teachings and beliefs. If there is nothing else for you to remember, know that you are the one going against the grain--the fellowship of churches of Christ will remain as non-followers of your gospel of musical instruments that you and the change agents propagate. Don't be ignorant of church history about division to let history repeat itself. Remember 1906 -- if you even know what occurred then.[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 25th, 2011, 3:55 am #25

Why do you suppose that at no level of scholarship, fame or fortune that almost no one--even those professioned seeing Godliness as a means of financial gain--can discern the difference between:

1. David the King and chief commander of the army following the universal pattern of composing battle tunes.

2. And Christ defining the Church in the wilderness both inclusive and exclusive which had a set-time-place each Sabbath (Rest) day and known as a School of the Word (only).


That is about as deranged as turning church into "a theater for holy entertainment" as purpose driven by the Madisonites.

And knowing that Psalms are poetic and poems temd to be poetic cannot grasp that you cannot get up into the firmament and praise Jehovah with several instruments at the same time: kinda like a one man band.

The tabulation of musical passages "contains a rather disproportionate number of metaphorical sentences, where music or its instruments are not to be understood literally but are used as similies or rhetorical figures. The most celebrated of these poetical passages is Paul's glorification of love in I Cor. 13." (Interpreter's Dict of the Bible, Music, p. 466).

The Apostolic Constitution by those called The Church of Christ notes:

Apostolic Constitutions of the Church of Christ c. 200 ad.

(1) come, whether it be man or woman, or charioteer, or dueller, or racer, or player of prizes, or Olympic gamester, or one that plays on the pipe, on the lute, or on the harp at those games, or a dancing-master or an huckster,

(2) either let them leave off their employments, or let them be rejected. If a soldier come, let him be taught to "do no injustice, to accuse no man falsely, and to be content with his allotted wages:"

(3) if he submit to those rules, let him be received; but if he refuse them, let him be rejected. He that is guilty of sins not to be named, a sodomite, an effeminate person, a magician, an enchanter, an astrologer, a diviner, an user of magic verses, a juggler, a mountebank, one that makes amulets, a charmer, a soothsayer, a fortune-teller, an observer of palmistry; he that, when he meets you, observes defects in the eyes or feet of the birds or cats, or noises, or symbolical sounds:

let these be proved for some time, for this sort of wickedness is hard to be washed away; and if they leave off those practices, let them be received; but if they will not agree to that, let them be rejected.


That is much milder than getting EXECUTED if a harpist went INSIDE of the Holy Place of the Temple. Out! Out! Out in the parking lot with the blood, smoke and dung.
Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

April 25th, 2011, 11:51 am #26

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
In several of my posts I have said time and time again that the problems wasn't that the elders made mistakes, as you have claimed, but the problem is that YOU rebuked the elders in a public forum, such as here.

In all of that incoherent diatrible of your last post, you said this...."While the Scripture teaches that we are to "rebuke not an elder" [and I haven't done that] and that the elders are to "be counted worthy of double honour" [and I am for that], it is contingent upon:..."

The slick wily syndrome has taken a hold of Donnie for some time now.
Donnie, it is NOT contingent upon ANYTHING.
You have no good intentions here. NONE! You could have/should have settled this matter within the church, but that is not how a wolf in sheep's clothing does it.
You want an audience. Well you got it, but you forgot that part of your audience consist of God also.
You also lied in the above statement when you said that you haven't rebuked and elder. Do you need proof? No, Donnie, you don't have to name names, for when you mentioned the name Madison and the church leaders, you have sinned.
Donnie, YOU HAVE SINNED!
You need to repent!
Quote
Share

Dave
Dave

April 25th, 2011, 12:56 pm #27

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Donnie said the following...."While the Scripture teaches that we are to "rebuke not an elder" [and I haven't done that] and that the elders are to "be counted worthy of double honour" [and I am for that], it is contingent upon:...."

This is his letter to the elders, where HE NAMES specific elders. Donnie, this IS a public rebuke, and it is NOT contingent upon anything. You could have done this within the church, but yet you wanted to spend someone's (maybe your own) hard earned money to acquire this evil website to hold the elders up for public ridicule. In the end, the church will go on and thrive, while you have sinned and need to repent. Donnie, you have the key to stopping the truth (again). You can always ban me from posting. It will take care of everything.

The LETTER from Donnie starts this way...

"Donnie C. Cruz: Letter to Elders Madison Church of Christ, Nashville
"Get Over It!" Is NOT the Solution; Only the Elders Can Stop the Disruption by the "Change Agents" -- NOW!

Note: This letter has already been sent to each of the elders of the church of Christ at Madison, as well as to other individuals who needed to be informed. By publishing this letter, it is my hope and prayer that some responsible action will be taken by the shepherds of this body of believers to restore what Madison used to be and have ... before it is too late!

-----DATE: January 12, 2002

-----FROM: Donnie C. Cruz

TO:


The Elders of the Madison Church of Christ: William E. Bennett, Dale Bishop, John Broadway, Joe Corley, Norman "Buck" Dozier, Chris Gingles, Howard W. Henderson, Thomas Hoppes, Russ Kersten, Charles E. Link, Ken Rice, Norman Slate, Ray Wilson"


The rest of the letter is just Donnie sore about the way he doesn't get his way and wants to pout like a child. I wish he was a child, for a child would not know how to be so wicked and start a satanic monster such as concerned members. A child would pout for a few minutes and get over it.
Donnie wants to groove a personal grudge against the Lord's church.

So Donnie, by publishing this letter in a public way you have sinned by putting the elders, and it doesn't matter if it is only part of the elders, up for public ridicule. Also you lied when you said that you haven't rebuke them. Remember this, NO MATTER HOW you disagree with them, to hold them up for public ridicule is a sin.
PERIOD!
Quote
Share

Roncar
Roncar

April 25th, 2011, 2:52 pm #28

Sorry Ken, Psalm 150 was in the Bible yesterday and today. I am sure it will there tomorrow also. Ken would very much like to discredit Psalm 150 because he knows it shows God's approval of instrumental music. Sorry Ken, God showed his approval and He never changed from that.

Ken, you know Paul was once a sinner also. That is true for all of us. God used David in His own way to give us His Word. Ken, who are you to question God and His Word?

Perhaps Ken is full of Halal?
Prerequisite:

2 TIM 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.


Ken, one must first believe the Bible is the Inspired Word of God. That means God is in control of what the writer has put on paper. You must also believe that God is NOT out to deceive the reader. God has given us what he wants us to have in the Bible (no more or no less).

If you want to be a student of the Bible you must meet the Prerequisite.

ps: It would help if you didn't mix mythology with God's Word.

Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

April 25th, 2011, 3:39 pm #29

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

According to Dave [YOU], Donnie is the problem and is, therefore, responsible for implementing the Community Church's scheme to "grow the church" at Madison. That Donnie taught Madison Rick Warren's culture-driven philosophy from his manual: "The Purpose Driven Church." That Donnie caused the elders to be divided between these decisions: (1) should Madison go the Community Church way or (2) should Madison remain peaceful and a city on the hill without influences by the change agents? That Donnie caused the division in its membership where hundreds of members left in droves.

Well, Dave, it is unfortunate that you've come to that conclusion. Where's your source of information?

Although ConcernedMembers was not even conceived until way AFTER the leadership had already succumbed to the slick and subtle but destructive ways of the agents of change, with the intrusion and the subversion process virtually complete, at least it was there to observe firsthand what was going on. (And some poor and unknown--and is still--Donnie joined CM even later than that.)

Again, your conclusion that Donnie was/is the problem and caused the havoc in the church, is purely a prevarication on your part.

Here we are discussing "instrumental music" ... supposedly. And you, Dave, just can't help but bring up "the elders" issue. And I have patiently explained it over and over to you. But nothing has sunk in. Just what is your problem? Are you no longer an elder yourself?

While the Scripture teaches that we are to "rebuke not an elder" [and I haven't done that] and that the elders are to "be counted worthy of double honour" [and I am for that], it is contingent upon:

(1) That the elders rule well;
(2) That they are to labor in word and doctrine;
(3) That they are to be blameless;
(4) That they are holding fast the faithful word...
(5) ... as they have been TAUGHT.
(6) [I'm sure you know all the other qualifications]

Well, Dave, I have no control over wrong decisions they make. And you know, too, that they're no longer human if they no longer make mistakes and no longer take responsibility for those mistakes.

The truth of the matter is that you are one of those in the church who continue to preach your own denominationally-acquired teachings and beliefs. If there is nothing else for you to remember, know that you are the one going against the grain--the fellowship of churches of Christ will remain as non-followers of your gospel of musical instruments that you and the change agents propagate. Don't be ignorant of church history about division to let history repeat itself. Remember 1906 -- if you even know what occurred then.[/color]
When people reject Dave's faulty theology, Dave turns on them and makes them out to be the villains. Often, he says his opponents have "no love." At other times, Dave behaves like a woman scorned when a man rejects her seductions. She turns her rage on the man and accuses him of sexual harassment and rape. In other words, that scorned woman prevaricates. Donnie rejects Dave's pro-IM seductions, so Dave rages that Donnie has caused havoc in the church. Like the scorned woman, a scorned Dave prevaricates.
Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

April 25th, 2011, 5:39 pm #30

Donnie said the following...."While the Scripture teaches that we are to "rebuke not an elder" [and I haven't done that] and that the elders are to "be counted worthy of double honour" [and I am for that], it is contingent upon:...."

This is his letter to the elders, where HE NAMES specific elders. Donnie, this IS a public rebuke, and it is NOT contingent upon anything. You could have done this within the church, but yet you wanted to spend someone's (maybe your own) hard earned money to acquire this evil website to hold the elders up for public ridicule. In the end, the church will go on and thrive, while you have sinned and need to repent. Donnie, you have the key to stopping the truth (again). You can always ban me from posting. It will take care of everything.

The LETTER from Donnie starts this way...

"Donnie C. Cruz: Letter to Elders Madison Church of Christ, Nashville
"Get Over It!" Is NOT the Solution; Only the Elders Can Stop the Disruption by the "Change Agents" -- NOW!

Note: This letter has already been sent to each of the elders of the church of Christ at Madison, as well as to other individuals who needed to be informed. By publishing this letter, it is my hope and prayer that some responsible action will be taken by the shepherds of this body of believers to restore what Madison used to be and have ... before it is too late!

-----DATE: January 12, 2002

-----FROM: Donnie C. Cruz

TO:


The Elders of the Madison Church of Christ: William E. Bennett, Dale Bishop, John Broadway, Joe Corley, Norman "Buck" Dozier, Chris Gingles, Howard W. Henderson, Thomas Hoppes, Russ Kersten, Charles E. Link, Ken Rice, Norman Slate, Ray Wilson"


The rest of the letter is just Donnie sore about the way he doesn't get his way and wants to pout like a child. I wish he was a child, for a child would not know how to be so wicked and start a satanic monster such as concerned members. A child would pout for a few minutes and get over it.
Donnie wants to groove a personal grudge against the Lord's church.

So Donnie, by publishing this letter in a public way you have sinned by putting the elders, and it doesn't matter if it is only part of the elders, up for public ridicule. Also you lied when you said that you haven't rebuke them. Remember this, NO MATTER HOW you disagree with them, to hold them up for public ridicule is a sin.
PERIOD!
So Dave is eager to cast the first stone! Dave evidently assumes that a letter--any letter--written to the elders of a church and published on a web site is designed to ridicule and rebuke those people. I find it interesting that Dave merely quoted the names of the elders mentioned in the letter, but he conveniently chose not to quote the whole letter. If there were obvious tones of ridicule and harsh rebuke in the letter, why didn't Dave republish them to prove his point?

An elder who lives as a faithful Christian is not to be rebuked by his congregation. A backsliding elder is something else. Suppose an elder is guilty of theft or murder. Is the congregation to sit back passively and say nothing, because it is supposedly "always sinful to rebuke an elder"? Observe:

"Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. I charge [thee] before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality" (1 Tim. 5:19-21 KJV).

This passage tells us that no one, including an elder, is above reproach if they engage in sinful acts. There is to be no partiality.

Although the Internet was not available in the first century, it is in the 21st century. Any letter addressed to the elders of any church and published via the Internet becomes public; hence, all those who read it become witnesses to any questions or accusations made against those elders.
Quote
Share